Suggestions please, for a minimum width table featuring a 57" Standard Curve.

Five feet is right on the edge. 6 more inches is only 3 inches more on each edge.

Nine feet is short for 57 curves. This leaves only 4 feet of straight track.

This layout will fill up fast.

I agree. Go with 5'6" X 12'.  If you can.  Rock on.

I have 57" curves on a 6 foot wide table. There is a 7" straight in the u turn at the end. That is what I can fit.

Well, my space is currently limited to kids wanting their basement. (These kids these days.) So, I am claiming a 9 by 5 (or 6) area that makes the most sense to all. Here is an alternative layout I had in mind using only 42 inch curves.  I won't link the inner and outer loops and will only have one turnout to a siding on the inner loop.

When the kids get older, that basement is mine. 

Well in model rr circles, 57 inch curves means 114 inch diameter.    That is slightly more than 9 feet.   Therefore a 10 ft wide "table" is needed.   However that seems impracticle, I think it would make more sense to build benchwork with an open acess in the middle, perhaps with 30 inch wide benchwork around the center.

"When the kids get older, that basement is mine. "

-ha, it happens quicker than you think. I finally got the basement back, no more drums, ping-pong table (or is it beer pong) folded up. If there's anything I can suggest is design with the future expansion in mind. Oh, and enjoy them while they're young and using all your layout space. 

Tim

Timothy Sprague posted:

"When the kids get older, that basement is mine. "

-ha, it happens quicker than you think. I finally got the basement back, no more drums, ping-pong table (or is it beer pong) folded up. If there's anything I can suggest is design with the future expansion in mind. Oh, and enjoy them while they're young and using all your layout space. 

Tim

Good points.

here is 72 and 57 on a 6 x 9. The 72 is egg shaped with 1 1/2 57 curves at the apex. The 57 inner loop is true 57.

There is 4.5" center to center on the straights and grows to over 7" at the apex.

Seemed to me these big boys need the large curve. Will they clear one another?

Let us not forget that small layouts can have some really cool things in them.

Dreyfus

We built out portable squares 31.5" so the assembled width is 63". This was determined by the overhang on a 400E. We didn't want it hitting the plexi guards around the layout. For weight reasons we wanted it as small as possible, and still be able to run a 400.

Steve

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Dreyfus

We built out portable squares 31.5" so the assembled width is 63". This was determined by the overhang on a 400E. We didn't want it hitting the plexi guards around the layout. For weight reasons we wanted it as small as possible, and still be able to run a 400.

Steve

Thanks. Just verifying; in this photo, the outer loop is 57", and the inner is 42? What is the length on that table?

STD gauge Lightweight modules

The 31.5 square makes a perfect size for the curves to meet the edges. A cut straight would be needed as 31.5" isn't multiples of 7".

Multiples of 31.5" let you determine the length. Just under 8' for 3 or just over 10' for 4.

I followed Steve's project as I like modular systems.

2 sheets of plywood cut to 63" in length and the cut-offs made to 31.5" squares would make a full table instead of modules for a 5'3" x 10'6" double oval.

Here is the track plan for the SGMA at Monroeville from a few years ago.

The curves are on 48" square modules. The 87 curve is about 6.25 inches from the edge. The 72,57 and 42 curves all fall in 7.25 inches from each other. Two corner modules can be attached to make a half circle or straight modules can be placed in between to make a rectangle or square.

The straight modules for the SGMA are in multiples of 4 feet to make boxes. Multiple size modules divisible by 4 can be used also i.e. 2 6 foot modules together.

Note the straight modules can be of different depths. On the right side there were 3 different sized modules. 48" corner 30" straight and 36" straight. A quadrilateral was attached to the 30" module measuring 18" on 1 end and 6" on the other. This made a smooth transition between modules.

The problem for the SGMA at this show was the limited footprint to display in. We have a lot of stuff to show and this time we had to build inside the box. This was the debut of the Yard and the 2nd showing of a upper level.

Hope this helps in showing what can be done with modules.

Back to the thread. One gentleman has 31.5 square modules with straights on the curve. This pushes the curves closer to the edge. The 57 curves can be brought in until they line up with the edge of the module thus needing no straights. The 42 curves will fall in 7.25" inside right to the edge. If the outside edge is too large the module can be made smaller.

Here's a webpage that some of you may have seen. I like some of the layouts, but prefer trouble-free running, so I limit my switches. (In all gauges.) http://www.thortrains.net/marx/funlayd1.html

Here is a 5' x 9' layout that uses a combination of 72's and 42's for the outer curves. Each 90 degree section of the curve consists of a 72-42-72 combination. The gentle transitional curve both in and out of the corner help large locomotives from thrashing thru the corners. Plus the added diameter curves in this combination take a little less room than the 57 curves. Food for thought.

ARNO

moderneraSG posted:

Here is a 5' x 9' layout that uses a combination of 72's and 42's for the outer curves. Each 90 degree section of the curve consists of a 72-42-72 combination. The gentle transitional curve both in and out of the corner help large locomotives from thrashing thru the corners. Plus the added diameter curves in this combination take a little less room than the 57 curves. Food for thought.

ARNO

Really cool, I like it. Thanks for the post and the neat idea. This, or a slight  variation of it could be the winner. Never thought about mixing curves.

Go 6 feet wide and use half 72 and half 57 for the outer loop.

Then half 57 and half 42 for the inner loop.

The big stuff will look a whole lot better.

Dreyfuss Hudson posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Dreyfus

We built out portable squares 31.5" so the assembled width is 63". This was determined by the overhang on a 400E. We didn't want it hitting the plexi guards around the layout. For weight reasons we wanted it as small as possible, and still be able to run a 400.

Steve

Thanks. Just verifying; in this photo, the outer loop is 57", and the inner is 42? What is the length on that table?

Dreyfus

Yes a 42" inner loop. With the panels being 31.5", Kirk at USA Track LLC made them for us already sized correctly. Currently myself and Bill Senyak have ten panel sets. There will be 3 more guys with ten panel sets not too far in the future. Bill and I have combined our panels in the past to make a 21" long display.

Steve

F&G RY posted:

Go 6 feet wide and use half 72 and half 57 for the outer loop.

Then half 57 and half 42 for the inner loop.

The big stuff will look a whole lot better.

One thing to be aware of is that the 57 curves are harder to work with in conjunction with other curve diameters. The reason being, they are based on 12pcs/circle, or a 30 degree slice of the pie. The original 42's are based off of 45 degree sections and the 72 and 87 curves are 16pcs/circle or 22.5 degrees.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but when you start combining curves for a more transitional curve, it quickly becomes apparent. I need to talk with Kirk at USA Track about maybe offering the 57s in the 22.5 degree. That, to me, would make them very useful.

Set up some track using the different radii curves and see what works best for you. Jim is right, they do not only look better going thru the larger radii, but when you combine them they help that tighter transition and makes it hardly noticeable that you are riding thru tighter curves. Set it up, you will see what I mean. When traveling thru a constant radius turn, no matter how large, it still seems more abrupt than the combined curves.

I plan to use this on my new layout as much as possible.

ARNO

One thing that I didn't think about or mention, is that one day I WILL own and use a 140L tunnel on the layout. Don't know if you read the other current thread on that tunnel, but it requires a corner of 42"curves. (The tunnel has 90 deg. openings.) So, complicating matters is the fact that at least one corner has to be all 42".

Kirk does make 1/2 57 curves. 1 and 1/2 57 would replace 1 42 or 2 72s.

1 42 would replace 2 72s.

A mixed circle of 4 42s and 8 72s would be 12 pieces. This actually makes a 57 circle. It could be a little bigger or smaller than a 57 circle depending on actual measurements. Of course the footprint would be different. 

One caveat is: If running mixed track 72-42-72 for a 1/4 circle or 72-72-42 for a 1/4 circle your minimum diameter will be the smallest diameter track. Trains like a Brute,Super 381 or Lionel Hiawatha will not make this circle. They will bind. 

My tunnel sits under my layout because of the 42 curve. I plan on making the layout a little longer and running turnouts on the 87 loop. Through the open turnouts train follows the 87 route. Through closed turnouts the train travels the 42 route. Cost is 2 turnouts. Benefit is a nice tunnel and an extra siding.

F&G RY posted:

One caveat is: If running mixed track 72-42-72 for a 1/4 circle or 72-72-42 for a 1/4 circle your minimum diameter will be the smallest diameter track. Trains like a Brute,Super 381 or Lionel Hiawatha will not make this circle. They will bind.

That is correct, but they won't make it around a 57 either, and that was the original desire.