Sunset/3rd Rail EMD F3 Locomotive Model

Very nice Mel.

"The B&M paint scheme is very well executed but the maroon color is quite shiny"

Looks like an excellent high gloss as delivered finish.  Just like the prototype.

- Crank

Very nice.  The F3s were delivered with a high gloss finish to go with the F7s that had the same high gloss finish circa 2016.  My Pennsy AB set looks quite at home with it's newer (or is that older?) F7 cousins. 

Jonathan,

Thanks for informing me about the shiny paint. I consulted some references and found some photos in which B&M E7s appeared very shiny when new but didn't find any such photos of the postwar 1948 B&M F3s.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

Jonathan,

Thanks for informing me about the shiny paint. I consulted some references and found some photos in which B&M E7s appeared very shiny when new but didn't find any such photos of the postwar 1948 B&M F3s.

MELGAR

For what it's worth, every, and I mean EVERY, locomotive that came out of the EMC/EMD paint shop at the McCook, Illinois plant, was "shiny". There was really no other way to spray those lacquer paints of those days, and the men took great pride in their paint jobs.

Very nice B&M models. I had formerly only seen your New Haven models. What other railroads do you collect?

My brand new 3RD rail F3 Canadian Nationals are also very shiny. I've seen photos of them (real) and thought they were repaints. Regardless, I was delighted that the colours were correct. Shiny or not, I'm happy.

@Wvm posted:

Very nice B&M models. I had formerly only seen your New Haven models. What other railroads do you collect?

New Haven, Boston & Albany, Boston & Maine, New York Central, Long Island.

MELGAR

The scale pilot and coupler really makes this model look exceptional

Very nice writeup, photos, and video, Mel.  Thanks for posting.

That's a very nice model locomotive!

If the bell and horn buttons operate the wrong sound effect, it sounds like the wires to the layout might be swapped.

That is a good looking F3.  One nitpick, I think you lost the glass in the headlight.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That is a good looking F3.  One nitpick, I think you lost the glass in the headlight.

John,

I went downstairs and checked. The headlight glass is there. All the "glass" in the recent Sunset engines is very clear. It's even difficult to see the porthole glass looking at the side of the engine.

MELGAR

Well, that is clear!  I can't see it at all in the picture!

What is also clear is how sharp that stripe is blown up about twice original size.  That is a top slide decal, not a screen print.  You wouldn't get that sharp a line in a screen print.  While we are quick to blame the factory workers who make our trains and that sometimes includes me, these decals are applied by hand one at a time.  Credit where it is due considering how many units they do.

Fooled me. I was having difficulty removing the hatch to access the smoke and program switches. I thought I could put a tool through what appeared to be an open porthole. Nope, there's a window in there.

I was able to lift the hatches by the edges or a lift ring.

MELGAR

@GG1 4877 posted:

What is also clear is how sharp that stripe is blown up about twice original size.  That is a top slide decal, not a screen print.  You wouldn't get that sharp a line in a screen print.  While we are quick to blame the factory workers who make our trains and that sometimes includes me, these decals are applied by hand one at a time.  Credit where it is due considering how many units they do.

Jonathan,

The more I look at this engine, the more impressed I am.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

I was able to lift the hatches by the edges or a lift ring.

MELGAR

What's going on in the back end? What can we access there?

@Oman posted:

What's going on in the back end? What can we access there?

Keith,

That is how you get to the battery.  I have been bad about changing mine out and need to pull out all my 3 rail models to put the charging capacitor circuits in instead since a lot of my 3rd Rail sees running infrequently.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Keith,

That is how you get to the battery.  I have been bad about changing mine out and need to pull out all my 3 rail models to put the charging capacitor circuits in instead since a lot of my 3rd Rail sees running infrequently.

Thanks Jonathan

I noticed that sounds continued after I cut power. I didn't see anything in included documentation about a battery, but I may have missed it. Is it a rechargeable battery?

I have MTH and Legacy, but this is new to me.

@Oman posted:

Thanks Jonathan

I noticed that sounds continued after I cut power. I didn't see anything in included documentation about a battery, but I may have missed it. Is it a rechargeable battery?

I have MTH and Legacy, but this is new to me.

The battery is a standard 9v battery and does need replacing from time to time.  You can purchase a BCR equivalent with a charging circuit through Hennings to replace the battery.

The instructions for my engine say "9V Battery is not factory installed." However, running conventionally, the sounds persisted for a number of seconds after I shut down track power. The instructions also say "To install the battery for conventional mode, take off the tank, 4 screws, and 8 screws along the edges of the chassis. You will see the 9V plug and area to insert the battery."

So, I'm not clear on where or whether a battery is installed, but my engine seems to operate properly as is.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

The B&M paint scheme is very well executed but the maroon color is quite shiny, especially in comparison with my Sunset/3^rd Rail EMD B&M GP7 #1562 (see photo) that was delivered earlier in 2021 and my other B&M diesel models.

@Hot Water posted:

For what it's worth, every, and I mean EVERY, locomotive that came out of the EMC/EMD paint shop at the McCook, Illinois plant, was "shiny". There was really no other way to spray those lacquer paints of those days, and the men took great pride in their paint jobs.

So the gloss paint would have been applied to all models, not just F/E units? Was this unique to the McCook plant?  Did they also do painting at the Muncie, Indiana plant?

It's interesting how EMD was involved in the painting process. I've read that their design department provided livery designs for many of their customers, so in many cases the paint schemes railroads used weren't designs they came up with, but those that EMD designers had prepared for them.

@breezinup posted:

So the gloss paint would have been applied to all models, not just F/E units?

Yes.

Was this unique to the McCook plant?

No. The same process was used at the London, Ont. plant in Canada, the the Diesel Division plant was built.

Did they also do painting at the Muncie, Indiana plant?

There was no Muncie, Indiana plant prior to the 21st century. From the original McCook plant (built in 1934)  until EMD moved assembly operations to the Diesel Division plant in London, Ont., all painting was done in either McCook or London, Ont..

It's interesting how EMD was involved in the painting process. I've read that their design department provided livery designs for many of their customers, so in many cases the paint schemes railroads used weren't designs they came up with, but those that EMD designers had prepared for them.

Except for the Santa Fe and PRR, the EMC/EMD Styling Group of the Engineering Dept. was responsible for styling  ALL the railroads.

Here’s my NDM.  First piece of my future NDM Aztec EAGLE consist  

@GG1 4877 posted:

Keith,

That is how you get to the battery.  I have been bad about changing mine out and need to pull out all my 3 rail models to put the charging capacitor circuits in instead since a lot of my 3rd Rail sees running infrequently.

Just what you need so you never have to go there again.

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement

@MELGAR posted:

The instructions for my engine say "9V Battery is not factory installed." However, running conventionally, the sounds persisted for a number of seconds after I shut down track power. The instructions also say "To install the battery for conventional mode, take off the tank, 4 screws, and 8 screws along the edges of the chassis. You will see the 9V plug and area to insert the battery."

So, I'm not clear on where or whether a battery is installed, but my engine seems to operate properly as is.

If the sounds continue after track power is cut, there is a battery in there, the RS-Lite board doesn't do that on it's own..

After EMD delivered the first set of passenger units to the PRR, E7 A-A set 5900-5901 they informed the PRR that the railroad would need to paint their own locomotives in the future as the PRR specification for applying the gold leaf that was used on the stripes until 1952 was very labor intensive. 

very sharp looking model!!

@Hot Water posted:

It's interesting how EMD was involved in the painting process. I've read that their design department provided livery designs for many of their customers, so in many cases the paint schemes railroads used weren't designs they came up with, but those that EMD designers had prepared for them.

@Hot Water posted:

Except for the Santa Fe and PRR, the EMC/EMD Styling Group of the Engineering Dept. was responsible for styling  ALL the railroads.

Do you know if GE, ALCO, Baldwin and FM provided the same design services, or did they just follow whatever EMD did? Would they have done some of their own designs for certain of their engines before EMD had done the designs?

Ben Dedek of EMD was their lead designer, I read, and was heavily involved with many of their designs. In many cases EMD would prepare several proposals and then let the railroad choose which one they wanted.

Apparently there were a few exceptions to railroads using EMD designs, other than Pennsylvania and the Santa Fe, such as Northern Pacific using Raymond Loewy's design for the North Coast Limited. I also read somewhere that the Southern Pacific Daylight scheme was designed in-house by Charles Eggleston, which of course was applied to some of their steam engines and then to some of their diesels. The Nickle Plate Bluebird scheme was their own as well. Another example was the New Haven McGinnis scheme, which was designed by Herbert Matter.

I find the involvement of famous industrial designers and graphic designers in the history of railroads to be of great interest.

@breezinup posted:

Do you know if GE, ALCO, Baldwin and FM provided the same design services, or did they just follow whatever EMD did?

Since EMC/EMD was in the diesel locomotive business long before GE, ALCO, Baldwin, and FM, those builders tended to follow those stylings developed by E<C/EMD for those specific railroad customers.

Would they have done some of their own designs for certain of their engines before EMD had done the designs?

Ben Dedek of EMD was their lead designer,

Ben Dedek and Harry Bokawitz were the two "craftsmen" of the Styling Group, later followed by Lee Buchholz.

I read, and was heavily involved with many of their designs.

Correct.

In some cases EMD would prepare several proposals and then let the railroad choose which one they wanted.

Also correct. Railman & Railroad did an extensive multi-issue story, by the late Jim Boyd, of the EMC/EMD Styling Group, which included may photos of never seen artwork of those styling concepts that didn't make it.

Apparently there were a few exceptions to railroads using EMD designs, other than Pennsylvania and the Santa Fe, such as Northern Pacific using Raymond Loewy's design for the North Coast Limited. I also read somewhere that the Southern Pacific Daylight scheme was designed in-house by Charles Eggleston, which of course was applied to some of their steam engines and then to some of their diesels. Another example was the New Haven McGinnis scheme, which was designed by Herbert Matter.

I find the involvement of famous industrial designers and graphic designers in the history of railroads to be of great interest.

@breezinup posted:

Do you know if GE, ALCO, Baldwin and FM provided the same design services, or did they just follow whatever EMD did? Would they have done some of their own designs for certain of their engines before EMD had done the designs?

Ben Dedek of EMD was their lead designer, I read, and was heavily involved with many of their designs. In some cases EMD would prepare several proposals and then let the railroad choose which one they wanted.

Apparently there were a few exceptions to railroads using EMD designs, other than Pennsylvania and the Santa Fe, such as Northern Pacific using Raymond Loewy's design for the North Coast Limited. I also read somewhere that the Southern Pacific Daylight scheme was designed in-house by Charles Eggleston, which of course was applied to some of their steam engines and then to some of their diesels. Another example was the New Haven McGinnis scheme, which was designed by Herbert Matter.

I find the involvement of famous industrial designers and graphic designers in the history of railroads to be of great interest.

From what I gather from the January 1985 Railfan & Railroad article (Pt. 2 of The Men Who Styled The Streamliners,) Alco had their own styling department which was responsible for the styling of Nickle Plate PA and the New Haven FA and PA "Brooks Brothers" orange with silver stripes.

The Indiana Transportation Museum has an ex-Milwaukee F styled on how EMD would have styled an NKP F-unit.

Obviously, Alco, GE and FM would have to follow EMD's lead for Santa Fe locomotives.  As FM was comparatively late to the locomotive game, I can't recall them producing "original" paint schemes except for their demonstrators and Virginian who was 99.9% FM. (1 GE 44 tonner.)

I also remember reading somewhere that Alco had a "stock" black with yellow end stripes for the RS's if a customer wasn't particular.

Rusty

For NKP, it’s Nickel (like the coin, and my last name) - carry on.  😈

Hi Folks,

I thought it was safe now to offer any left over F3s.

http://www.3rdrail.com/Diesel-SuperSale.html

We also have a few left overs of the GP79 and PA/ ABA set in Rio Grande that a customer estate returned to us unopened.

If you want to buy one, don't post here, email us at sdmann@3rdrail.com

Cheers,

We have the New York Central F3 A-B sets in stock.  They are beautiful.

https://jrjunction.com/product...-york-central-f3-ab/