I've discussed this with a couple of very fine custom painters. The concern with undecorated units is they may not provide adequate base coat, they may need priming anyway. The consensus seems to be the easier and better way is to strip a painted unit, then repaint. Of course you must pay them, the 'premium' involved, but IMO the cost is quite reasonable for a unique paint job of exquisite quality. I cringe as I write this, they already have long waiting lists...
Here's one that hasn't been posted...
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@HiramO posted:"The concern with undecorated units is they may not provide adequate base coat, they may need priming anyway. The consensus seems to be the easier and better way is to strip a painted unit, then repaint."
None of the manufacturers appear to have any paint ready primer type base coat applied to these units, they aren't marketed for that.
I would wash the loco with warm, soapy water, blow dry and let it sit a day or so. I would then use ScaleCoat II light gray as a primer or Tamyia spray primer. Let it dry another day or so then start painting.
Dick
Installed Protocraft couplers and incandescent bulbs on my unit... now let’s get to switching those beautiful CZ cars!
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Very nice. As "Burlington" as it gets! A steam boiler equipped GP7 handled the dieselized Chicago-Mendota-Galesburg local passenger train for many years, so don't hesitate to put your very nifty locomotive into passenger service, as well as freight and switching.
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My partially unboxed 2R on my small 3R layout.
@mark s posted:Very nice. As "Burlington" as it gets! A steam boiler equipped GP7 handled the dieselized Chicago-Mendota local passenger train for many years, so don't hesitate to put your very nifty locomotive into passenger service, as well as freight and switching.
My plan exactly! I still need to add the vapor standby heater, tho. There are some nice images of Q GP7s in bulletin #63, Mark. Timely!
I pulled the steam equipment off the high hood and plan on filling the small holes. I am a bit concerned about matching the paint but we'll see. The loco will also be weathered.
Dick
You guys are so lucky! I don't do plastic, but I can tell from the photos that these are state-of-the-art. Impressive!
@bob2 posted:You guys are so lucky! I don't do plastic, but I can tell from the photos that these are state-of-the-art. Impressive!
Bob2
Your adversity to plastic is well known! 😁. Have you built any diesels other than the PA(s) and your fabulous Erie-built Fairbanks Morse?
Is so, I'm sure there would be interest in seeing them... 👍. 🙂
Mark in Oregon
Plastic is probably the best medium for model trains. Injection molding produces crisp detail, the dies last forever, and the raw material is almost free in comparison to brass/zamac.
I have converted three MTH PAs to metal, using the lost-plastic method (well, I didn't do the work, but they were and are my Diesels). I have plastic K-Line Train Masters, an MTH SD9, and a couple Atlas hood units in plastic. All are really nice looking, but not really my end of the hobby.
In my opinion, the most "engaging" GP in O Scale was the Simon sand cast bronze unit. It cannot even begin to hold a candle to the Kemtron, and this nice GGD model is light years ahead of either in terms of fidelity, detail, and operation, but still, for a certain type of hobbyist it fills the bill. Photos when I get the chance - I just realized I have none on file.
Meantime, I would love to see more paint schemes on the GGD model - hope you guys haven't put away your cameras!
Still haven't had time for pro photos of my GP7 yet, but here is the CNJ version from my cell phone.
For the fun of it, here is my Kemtron version too. 
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Jonathan,
Nice pics (again)
Any Sunset Conrail GPs out there?
@EMD posted:Jonathan,
Nice pics (again)
Any Sunset Conrail GPs out there?
Sorry for the repost of these over and over. I really need to take the time for better photos and get the other road numbers photographed. Thought they belonged in this thread. I'd be curious to see a Conrail one as well. The GP7 was based on the NYC version and the GP9 on the PRR version.
Who do you recommend for custom painting?
@GG1 4877 posted:For the fun of it, here is my Kemtron version too.
Your CNJ is very nice; I wonder if you might consider starting a thread about this Kemtron unit. Would love to see more of it! 🙂
Mark in Oregon
This thread has adequately covered the GGD Masterpiece. Is there a rule that we cannot post Kemtrons here? If so, I will hold off until the new thread is started.
“STAND BY RESERVATIONS ACCEPTED FOR A POSSIBLE SECOND RUN” on 3rd Rail webpage For the GPs. Sure surprised me. Probably a long shot to meet the numbers needed but maybe there was a backlog beyond production capacity that went unfilled that becomes a nice early numbers bump. And then there’s the fence sitters that now can see What They Missed Out On - and here’s a second chance. The production Q is long but ...... stay tuned 😳 I’d prefer to see new items but I welcome a potential second run (Even a long shot) as I sure couldn’t get everything I wanted all at once !!!
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:Installed Protocraft couplers and incandescent bulbs on my unit... now let’s get to switching those beautiful CZ cars!
Santiagop23, what bulbs did you use to replace the LED's? I have a 3rd Rail SD9 that has LED lighting and I hate it. It is a beautiful engine but every time it comes toward me, I find the lights harsh and much too bright.
Also, was it difficult to replace them?
I really enjoy you postings and your detailed models.
Happy railroading,
Don
@breezinup posted:Just to be sure, are those stripes white or silver?
The stripes should be silver along with the Santa Fe herald.
@DGJONES posted:Santiagop23, what bulbs did you use to replace the LED's? I have a 3rd Rail SD9 that has LED lighting and I hate it. It is a beautiful engine but every time it comes toward me, I find the lights harsh and much too bright.
I agree the lights are way too bright. Try adding a 1000 ohm resistor in the headlight circuit and a 2000 ohm resistor in the number boards
https://ogrforum.com/...e-sunset-gp7-and-gp9
You may have to adjust the values a bit depending on the control system
@DGJONES posted:Santiagop23, what bulbs did you use to replace the LED's? I have a 3rd Rail SD9 that has LED lighting and I hate it. It is a beautiful engine but every time it comes toward me, I find the lights harsh and much too bright.
Also, was it difficult to replace them?
I really enjoy you postings and your detailed models.
Happy railroading,
Don
Don, it’s easy enough. I used 16v 3mm bulbs. These are generic, but most of the times I use 1.5v miniatronic bulbs. For 16v bulbs I don’t need resistors, I just reduce the brightness using the QSI quantum programmer. Incidentally, I fried mine while setting this unit up. So, I had to program it with my Esu Ecos and its traditional CV program mode. CV 49 and CV50 are my new best friends!
The new thread is for Kemtron, so I am going to tack the Simon castings here by way of comparison. These are bronze sand castings, done in two halves which get soldered together. Pilots are soldered on to the end steps. Four castings total, not counting trucks and fan housings.
I originally thought that no trucks came with the kit, but Carey had a pair with Simon cast Blomberg side frames - the castings are exquisite - almost as good as the die cast All Nation trucks.
Both of these are drilled for handrails, but I am waiting for final paint before doing that. The yellow one is awaiting silver and purple. Both have All Nation gearing (I was wondering where all my transmissions went) and one has a motor installed. Neither actually run at the moment. I haven't run a train for a year and a half, so almost everything needs lubrication and cleaning.
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And you need to understand - while these are my end of the hobby, they simply cannot hold a candle either detail-wise or operationally, to the GGD models that are the subject of this thread. I will go over to Strummer's Kemtron thread with my Kemtron collection (really nice models for their day, but again no longer state-of-the-art).
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Absolutely fabulous! I still haven't unboxed my GP9 yet. Maybe I should after seeing this.
@bob2 posted:And you need to understand - while these are my end of the hobby, they simply cannot hold a candle either detail-wise or operationally, to the GGD models that are the subject of this thread. I will go over to Strummer's Kemtron thread with my Kemtron collection (really nice models for their day, but again no longer state-of-the-art).
True, but they have a certain charm and allure that is lacking (I think) in newer models. That goes for ANY models of that vintage. As you would say: "opinion". 🙂
Mark in Oregon
I swapped out the stock QSI sound decoder for an ESU Loksound V5 L sound decoder in my undecorated Sunset GP7. I added a Tang Band 1925S speaker to the OEM speaker along with a CNC-machined brass base and elevated speaker mounting platform to mount the new decoder and Tang Band speaker stack-up. The brass base and speaker platform added 10 oz. of weight to the model as I felt it could use some more weight to go along with that nice ball bearing drivetrain. The new brass base was designed to attach to the frame using the same two M2 tapped holes used by the stock QSI decoder mount. Here are some photos of the conversion along with a short video testing it out. Please note that the lights are not yet hooked up as still lots of work needs to be done to the shell and lighting clusters to convert it to a chop-nose ATSF GP7.
Scott
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@Scott Kay I’ll take your qsi decoder if you’re selling it 
Scott, your locomotive sounds great! I love your carpet central railroad. You don't see too many of those in 2 rail. How did you build it?
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:@Scott Kay I’ll take your qsi decoder if you’re selling it
Hi Santiago,
Yes, the QSI Decoder is for sale. $50ea. + shipping. Price is for the decoder and the snipped wire harness with harness plugs and short length of wire still attached (no speaker or lighting is included as I reused the OEM speaker in my retrofit and will reuse the lighting as best I can). I can email a photo of the removed QSI decoder later this evening. Ping me via email (my email is in my profile) and we can work out the details, if interested.
Additionally, I actually have a second one of these same QSI decoders but at the moment it is still installed in a second new Sunset GP7 that has not yet gone through this ESU update. If you are interested in both, let me know, but it will be a few days before I will have a chance to remove that second QSI decoder.
Scott
Will do, Scott. Thanks
@Hudson J1e posted:Scott, your locomotive sounds great! I love your carpet central railroad. You don't see too many of those in 2 rail. How did you build it?
Thanks for the comment. My Carpet Central actually works quite well as a hold-over until I get some more space for a real layout. Takes you back to your younger years . It is a 10 ft. (wide) x 13 ft. (long) oval. Basically, two 60" radius 180 degree curves at each end with a 3 ft. straight section between each end. The roadbed is jigsaw cut from a 4' x 8' sheet of 1/2" Homasote and painted with a few coats of gray interior latex paint top and bottom to seal it. The latex paint works good and does not stain the carpet. Each 90 degree corner is made up of two pieces of Homasote (or 4 pieces for a full 180 degree arc). I attached the Homasote sections to each other with two strips of 1/8" x 3/4" x 6" aluminum flat bar sections mounted on the underside at the inside and outside of each joint. Each aluminum bar has four holes drilled and tapped 10-32 and panhead machine screws with washers were used to fasten the flat bars to the Homasote sections together. A 1/8" deep notch or rabbit was routed out on the underside of the Homasote on inside and outside at each Homasote connection point to allow recessing the aluminum connecting bars so the joints lay flat with aluminum bars in place. Machine screws were sized to be pretty much flush with the bottom of the aluminum bars.
The track is "mostly" Micro Engineering Code 125 flex track spiked using Micro Engineering medium sized spikes to the Homasote via holes that I pre-drilled in the ties next to the outer side of the rail. It has held up very well over the years just using spikes and no adhesive. Right-O-Way cast nickel silver rail joints were used to join the sections of flex track at the Homasote joint but Micro-Mark rail Code 125 stamped joiners were used internally within a Homasote section. The two 3ft. tangent sections are handlaid sections on stained wood ties just to do a little handlaid track experimentation using tie plates so that section will appear darker in some of the photos below. The flex track was air brushed weathering colors prior to installing.
For power, I used 2-conductor Molex power plugs to transfer track power between each Homasote section and not dependent on the rail joiner to transfer power. All rail joiners are soldered internally within a Homasote section. A second Molex power plug was brought out on one of the sections to connect the DCC system to the "layout".
The entire "layout" disassembles rather quickly (within a 1/2 hour) with a manual screwdriver and can be stored in a closet or attic when required. I marked the underside of each section so I can reassemble quickly in the same order.
Here are some photos:
Top view of typical Homasote joint
Look close to see the aluminum flat bar and rabbit machined in on the underside of the Homasote.
Top view of one 90 degree 60" radius corner. Darker tangent section of track at the bottom of the photo is actually a section of handlaid track with stained wood ties.
Scott
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Here are the Sunset Seaboard Air Line ones that I unboxed last night. 
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Hi Guys
Have any of you noticed that the wheels on your Geeps measure a scale 36” (undersized) rather than the correct 40”? As a result, the coupler height is a bit low.
In addition, some of the roads paint colors were way off (I disposed of my CGW units because they should be maroon and red not brown and orange). However, I did pick up a C&NW unit which had more correct colors.
The missing handrail stanchions problem has been successfully addressed but the CB&Q units have a fatal flaw and that is the “Way of the Zephyrs” slogan appears on both sides of the units when “Everywhere West” should appear on the Fireman’s side of the unit.
Another possible issue is that the roof fans are not centered in their JH respective hatches. We believe this is incorrect but we welcome verification.
We appreciate the work that Scott and Sunset 3rd Rail do for the 2 Rail O Scale community but this first run of Geeps is not their best effort, in our opinion.
The Rockford O Scalers
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I concur with Frank's assessment of these models' shortcomings, especially, the use of E-unit 36" diameter wheels instead of the correct, previously imported FT, F3, SD9 40" diameter wheelsets. I will assume that all purchasers of these models have received their replacement, missing stanchions from 3rd Rail/Sunset by now; will 3rd Rail/Sunset be providing each of us with the correct 40" diameter, geared wheelsets we need? In my case, I have 4 CB&Q GP7 models with the incorrect logo on the fireman's side of the long hood, which will require repainting and decaling.
