Sunset FTs arrive

The steps over the trucks are attached to the trucks.  The ones at the A unit rear and B unit both ends are fixed to the car body.

A few days ago on this topic post I mentioned my "quibble" that the steps were attached to the trucks and not the body as I thought that the 2 rail FTs would have body mounted stirrups.

 

Richard responded...."Fixed stirrups; in process, outcome unknown."

 

Allan

 

I remember reading somewhere that body mounted steps would be included in the box so you could swap them out. Dont remember if this was going to start with the F7's or FT's though.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Very helpful.

Stephen

Here's the NCE DCC Remote Cab Function Keys mapping for the FT's.  Or you can use the on screen throttles available in QSI CV MGR.

 

Running engines from your PC using the on-screen QSI CV MGR throttle(s) is fun and is a helpful learning tool.  It shows all 28 function buttons and has the advantage of spelling out the F button meaning in plain old English when you click on the button image.   

 

Descriptions of each function can be found by going to the QSI Solutions Website and browsing thru the BIG manual.   Complete DCC Reference Manual for All QSI Decoders  v5.1.1 full manual; 434 pages     http://www.qsisolutions.com/#!titan-ho-documents/c339

 

(N) = neutral from forward and neutral from reverse

 

F(L)  Multiple Lights #1  (NCE Remote)

F1 Bell

F2 Horn

F3 Coupler Sounds

F4 Cooling Fans

F5 Dynamic Brakes

F6 Doppler

F6 (N) Startup (if shutdown by F9)

F7 Flanges and Brakes

F7 (N)  Long Air Letoff

F8 Mute

F9 Heavy Load

F9 (N) Disconnect/Standby/Shutdown progressive sequence

F10 Verbal Status Report

 

For F11 thru F20 on NCE push "Option" Button once plus the F button desired.  Example: OPTION button + F1 = F11.  .

 

F11 Standard/Alternate Horn Selection

F12  (Primary Smoke??)

F13  System Volume Down

F14   System Volume UP

F15   Grade Crossing Horn Sequence

F16   Mars Light

F17   "Front Markers"  (Classification Lights)

F18   Multiple Lights #2 Automatic Group Lighting Control

F19   Front Cab Light

F20 Short Air Letoff

 

Press Option Twice and F button

 

F21 - F25 Short Air Letoff (place holders for your use)

F26(N)   Fuel Loading Scenario

F27(N)  Maintenance Scenario

F28 N)  Water Loading  Water Scoop

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Jonathan,

You are correct that you can use F11 to flip back and forth between the two horns  --  and --  correct that when powering down and then back up it reverts to the primary horn.  All my QSI decoders do this. 

 

I've changed primary and secondary whistles and horns on other QSI equipped engines.  And fiddled for fun with changing to all kinds of whistles on my Q2 firmware equipped QSI Titan.  But, that Aftermarket decoder came loaded with a huge selection of chuff, whistle and bell, etc, sound files.

 

Not sure what sound files are in the FT OEM QSI decoder and so will need to actually verify this on the FT's before saying any more.  Am busy now but will try it and post results NLT tomorrow AM.

 

Jonathan or anyone else, I think the secondary horn is really the more correct one?  Agree?

Austin Bil - I really appreciate you taking the time for all your Ft posts.  For me the info is invaluable.  After the FT dust settles, I'm going to pickup a NCE system and start learning process.  Your posts will help accelerate the learning curve.

Marker, thanks for the kind words.  Learning to run trains with DCC is just about like learning how to use a TV remote.  Learning how to change features is just about like learning to use a smart phone or any reasonably user friendly PC application.  Start with the basic things you really need to know and progress as you find other things you need or want to fiddle with.  You can always reset a QSI decoder to it's factory defaults if you mess up -- and start over.  And as you progress in setting up an engine you can save the file to your hard drive and revert to it if you goof on the next change. 

Can someone please post pictures of the Great Northern FT's and/or the Burlington FT's?  

 

Thanks.

 

 

RTR Mark

 

Hello Stephen, I would like to purchase the KM1 passenger cars.  Do you have a source for them?

 

Thank you

 

I have 2 KM1 locos; one that features a steam whistle.

Bart Zuccala

Murrysville, PA 15668

Informative.  Some day I shall go sound.  I do have one PS-2 steamer that needs a factory reset.

 

I did try smoke.  After a couple of runs it so sickened me that I have been unable to be in the same room with a smoke-emitting model - and I am the guy who hangs out on the first platform behind the Mikados on the C&TS RR.

 

So, yeah.  Smoke? Yuk!

Ever try any of the different scents? We like to switch everything to 'Christmas' and 'Candy Cane' for the holidays. For the rest of the year we run 'unscented'. There are many others to choose from. I would not recommend 'coal' as it is very strong. Unless that's your thing...

Here are some photos for RTR Mark.

Thanks a lot, Jack.  They're beautiful units!  It looks like the shade of orange on the GN FT's is right on the money.

 

 

RTR Mark

That's too bad.  Looks like I'll be renumbering my DL&W FTs.  The low 600s on the DL&W had the short FT B units.  They should have used numbers from the 650s.  Nice paint job though.  And at least it'll run well.

That's correct Bob.  I have the Overland factory painted Lackawanna FT's that are also numbered 601 and they do have the short FT B.  The Sunset 3rd Rail units do run and sound good.  The A and B pull more and better than 3 powered units from Atlas, Overland, or Key. I have some pretty good grades and with 20 plus cars my RRamp Meter shows 2.2 amps on the steepest grade and about 1.3 amps on the level With the FT's.  In comparison three Atlas units show 4.8 amps at the steepest grade and once in a while they'll stall triggering a shut down. Two Atlas units couldn't do it at all without a helper.

That's too bad.  Looks like I'll be renumbering my DL&W FTs.  The low 600s on the DL&W had the short FT B units.  They should have used numbers from the 650s.  Nice paint job though.  And at least it'll run well.

Many times if not all, Sunset/3rd Rail will use the correct numbers if they are given a "heads up" early enough, before production.      

This is what I sent to Scott on 10-31-2013:

 

For the Lackawanna FTs in particular, please use the 651A/B through 654A/B number series as these had the standard length B Units.  The 601 A/B/C through 604 A/B/C number series FTs had a different length B Unit.

 

I was hoping that it was enough lead time.  I guess not.

 

Bob - I'm sorry it came out that way.  I've also been ignored in the past.  Perhaps I shouldn't have posted "many times" and changed it to sometimes.   It's always irritating when mistakes are made, especially when just changing the numbering could have corrected the problem. 

 It is unfortunate that this happens. Although it may seem that advice is ignored I will say that it is always welcomed by Scott. You may be surprised how frequently Sunset/GGD receives conflicting information from modelers. I have been the recipient of that at numerous 2 rail shows.

 

Also, mistakes happen. Case in point:

 when I submitted all the coach names for the B&O Columbian they were spelled correctly. Someone decided I had one of the names spelled incorrectly and changed it. Now, it really IS spelled incorrectly.

From what I understand and personal experiences with the builders this is all too common. Language barrier not included. Scott is doing fabulously and is making our times the greatest ever in o scale.

I concur that Scott is doing a wonderful job for the O scale hobby, thought I would post photo's of a customers WP and NP FT's. ncng

 

Don't get me wrong, Jonathan Peiffer was very open to the few issues I presented, as long as I backed up my concerns with proof. 

 

My post above, originally was much longer but I cut it way down.  The part I cut out was a justification of the difficulty in accepting all suggestions.  

 

I don't think anybody that sees these engines will be disappointed.  Owners will be pleased with the operating characteristics.  I was very surprised that 3rd Rail was able to produce so many accurate variations for so many road names.  

 

rheil - I'll never feel bad again.

 

 

I'm beyond pleased.  I'm thrilled with my Rio Grande FT's.

 

Scott, if you're watching, thanks a bunch.  

 

I'm looking forward big time to the Rio Grande F7's and the "big dog" Rio Grande L-131 steam engine with green boiler and DCC!!!

 

And how about an appropriate Rio Grande caboose for the L-131.

I just received my set of Cat Whisker Santa Fe FT's Tuesday and I will finally have time to put them on the layout this weekend.  I was extremely pleased with the results of that scheme.  The etched brass SF plate on the nose is the icing on the cake.  I have a run day at my club on the 15th and I can't wait to see how they operate with a load of 50+ cars. 

 

I'll take responsibility for the misnumbered Lackawanna units.  Usually I catch that stuff or have someone provide it to me.  Please contact me at my email address posted on my profile page if you have good information to share for the F7s that are coming up. 

 

Every single one of the Sunset diesel projects has been an improvement over the previous ones.  The F7s should be spectacular.

I talked to Scott and he will ask the builder about making 650s number boards and decals for the Lackawanna folks who might be up for changing them themselves when they make the numberboards and decals for the F7s.  The number boards are easy to replace but changing the decals will require scraping off the 600s (with your fingernail or the like) and then probably clearcoating the area after attaching the replacements. 

 

Wow, this is very cool.  If Scott could make it happen, it would make my job much easier.

 

I talked to Scott and he will ask the builder about making 650s number boards and decals for the Lackawanna folks who might be up for changing them themselves when they make the numberboards and decals for the F7s.  The number boards are easy to replace but changing the decals will require scraping off the 600s (with your fingernail or the like) and then probably clearcoating the area after attaching the replacements. 

 

WOW, that's incredible and great to hear.

 

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Dave - Thanks for posting the sound info.  In the future I look to sample that.

 

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Johnathan - You did a great job on the Santa Fe FT's.

 

David, yes, there is a speaker in the FT B unit, and you got it right, it does sound. 

 

I agree about the vast improvement of Q3 over Q2 equipped engines.

 

I have a Sunset UP E7 AB with Q3 decoders in both the A and B units (no tether) and two speakers in each unit.  Each speaker is wired to a separate output (two outputs per decoder).  The sound is in a whole other class from the Q2 equipped engines from any of the manufacturers.

 

The second is my aftermarket Q3 UP 844 which is upgraded from Q2.  Huge improvement. 

 

Viva QSI Titan Q3 ET (Emulator Technology).  I think I heard that QSI or QSIS is working on an improved download process which will shorten the time required.  Hopefully, when available, this will encourage the manufacturers to adopt Q3 ET.

Big Brown showed up at my door today. Here are a couple shots of my Western Pacific FT's. I was happy to see that Sunset did go that extra step and add the number boards of the roof of the A unit.

 

  

Incredible!  

I was happy to see that Sunset did go that extra step and add the number boards of the roof of the A unit.

The detailing for different railroads really surprised me.  The FT's turned out to be an extremely well done project.

Austin Bill

  I'm about to do some work on my Sunset E7's and would like to know if in addition to the Q3 sound set upgrade and speakers you played with CV's related to motor control/ momentum? 

 

Ed Rappe

Hi Ed,

 

The short answer is yes, the motor control CV's were tweaked as part of the upgrade from Q2 to Q3.  I have the resulting Q3 E7 file and will be happy to send it to you.  Email me if interested.

 

Now for the rest of the story to give credit where credit is due. 

 

This project started out with my desire to simply improve the low speed Q2 performance. I had done it before on other QSI Titan engines but was having problems with the E7 decoder/motor(s) combo.  So, I contacted Josh Shedaker for advice intending to do it myself.  One thing led to another and I got lucky!  Josh became interested is seeing how far he could take a fine set of O scale Sunset E7's with the new Q3 ET technology.  So, I sent them like right away!  Josh did a fantastic job. Also, a big thanks goes to Matt Forsyth, also a QSI Titan guru and a big help in this project.

 

The E7A OEM Titan was upgraded to Q2 to Q3.  A second aftermarket Titan was installed in the E7B.  So, no more tether. The motor control CV's were refined to fit the new configuration. The low speed operation now is much, much better than stock. 

 Two speakers were added to each unit, each on a separate 2 watt channel since the Titan decoder has two audio outputs.   The sound is AWESOME.  Best I've ever heard in person -- by far.  And while at it Josh vastly improved the engine shell acoustics.

 

Since the new Q3 file I have was created for a decoder running one motor in each A and B unit rather than two thru a tether as in the stock units some motor control CV tweaking might be required.  The new improved PID manager in QSI CV MGR should be a help in this.

 

I have other sets of E7's,  But, upgrading them hasn't made the priority list yet. So, I'll find out down the road. 

 

 

I finally got time to photograph my 3 rail FTs.  Why 3 rail?  My home layout when it is ever built will be 2 rail and all NY&LB (PRR / CNJ).  However living in the west, I couldn't pass up running these on the western themed layout of the Paradise and Pacific in Scottsdale, AZ.  143LABC will get its break in run on the 15th.

 

 

Bill, I find your comment interesting. Out of the box my Q2 Sunset E7's exhibited stunning slow speed performance. Movement at speed step 1 at less than walking speed, that would hold without jerkiness or stalling. In fact the only critical item of their OEM performance was a top end speed of about 45-50 smph, which seemed slow for an engine designed to run at 80 mph.

 

I do have a Sunset FP7 that Josh performed the Q3 upgrade to, but have not done any changes to the speed curves. I also have not tested her top end speed. The engine does have the same stellar slow speed performance.

 

PRR Man.  I have (had) three sets of Q2 E7s.  All three ran well at low speeds and throughout the speed range. But, all three had (2 stlll do) the same noticeable (to me) hum for a short interval when first accelerating from a dead stop.  At max volume the diesel rumble blocks it out. But at a more "reasonable" volume level it's there and then quickly goes away as the set gains speed.  All three sets.  I found it irritating.  Others may not even notice it. 

 

The hum is totally gone in the Q3 engine set (two decoders) and the motor control is even better IMO at low speed and across the range.  But, then this was a custom job done by Josh. Certainly the manufacturers can't afford to custom tune each engine set to make up for the variances in motors and drive trains, etc.

 

 I did not intend to bash the stock Q2 E7's.  They are beautiful engines.  And I should add that my new Sunset FT's have zero hum and "stunning low speed performance" to borrow your words.    

Had the time to play a little this weekend, setup the track on the floor and tested the new FT's right out of the box.

 

 

 

Ken 

I made my reservation with 3rd rail for a D&RGW F7 A-B to pull my Atlas Zephyr cars, and I was wondering how many passenger cars an AB set could pull. I assume the F7's will be very similar in the performance as the FT's. The F7's will be my first 3rd rail engines so I have no idea what to expect. I expect to have an 8-10 car set by the time Atlas finishes the whole set. Anyway, if you guys could give me and idea of the pulling power for these units I'd appreciate it!