Sunset FTs arrive

Well my name is on the list in case anyone cancels their Warbonnets

Not sure what is left, but as of 9/14 this is what Scott had:

 

Currently unclaimed are:
2R B&O ABA
2R ERIE AB
2R GN ABA
2R LACKAWANNA AA
2R NP AA
2R RIO GRANDE AB  (x2)
2R SF FREIGHT LATE (4 X AB)
2R SF WAR BONNET (3 X AB)
2R WP (1 - ABA,  1 - AA)
3R B&O AB
3R CB&Q AB X 2
3R LACKAWANA ABB
3R RIO GRANDE ABB X 2
3R SF FREIGHT EARLY ABA
3R SF WAR BONNET ABB and AB

 

I got the 2R Erie pair.

 

I received my A-B-B-A set of 2-rail Rio Grande FTs a couple of days ago. Circumstances changed, however, in the time between placing my order last year and receiving the models.

 

So now I would like to sell them as a set (3rd Rail set them up for operation as an 4-unit locomotive). 

 

If you missed out earlier and are interested in getting an A-B-B-A set of the beautiful Rio Grande units in 2-rail, check the FOR SALE board for my contact information, etc. 

Beautiful stuff Scott!

Photo and model courtesy : R Meyer

Drgw four stripe heaven!

Beautiful

I hope to get a chance to do a full review!

Good job Scott!!

Bless you man your a dream come true for a lot of us

Very nice pieces.

They are!

They are beautiful!

 

Maybe someone can help me with a question about operation. I don't use DCC (not yet, anyway) and the models apparently require significant;y more than 12 volts DC to operate properly (up to 24 volts is specified in the instruction sheet).

 

The engine sounds don't even come on until there's about 9 volts on the track, and my DC throttle won't supply more than about 14 volts.

 

Are there any changes I can make in order to operate these engines on my traditional 12-volt DC layout, other than investing in DCC or in a straight-DC throttle cable of supplying 24 volts?

I was surprised 3rd Rail went to the effort of detailing the D&RGW class lights properly.  Unusual in plastic these days.  Nice!

 

Looks great!

 

Maybe someone can help me with a question about operation. I don't use DCC (not yet, anyway) and the models apparently require significant;y more than 12 volts DC to operate properly (up to 24 volts is specified in the instruction sheet).

 

The engine sounds don't even come on until there's about 9 volts on the track, and my DC throttle won't supply more than about 14 volts.

 

Are there any changes I can make in order to operate these engines on my traditional 12-volt DC layout, other than investing in DCC or in a straight-DC throttle cable of supplying 24 volts?

 

Looks like I'm going to have to move to DCC sooner than planned.  

 

However, in reading the material that comes with Atlas DC/DCC engines, I think the voltage at which the engine starts moving can be reprogramed for DC.  I've only experimented a little, with reprograming the decoder in my Atlas engines for DC (like lowering the volume), so I don't know the steps involved.  

My Rio Grande 2RL FT ABBA arrived today.

 

Erik's picture above say it all on looks.  Outstanding.   I'm part of the "great unwashed" on the FT features so I'll leave that to the exerts. 

  

The internal connections for my ABBA are all drawbars.  Parts bags have the stuff needed to separate them into two AB units with a coupler between the two AB sets. I suspect the rigid drawbars instead of spring loaded kadees helps smooth low speed performance (if needed) prior to lube, breakin and programming (if needed) between the four units.  

 

So, I stuck them on the track right out of the box, changed each pair's address to the A unit cab number and the put them in a consist by programming on the main with my NTE DCC system.

 

They have excellent low speed performance as a rigid ABBA with motors/diven trucks in all 4 units.  

 

With a speaker in all four units the sound is big and spread out.  In a consist all 4 prime movers sound off when moving.  I haven't figured out the notching yet or how accurate it is but it's there in all 4.  Of course the horn and bell only sound in the A unit in a consist.

 

Out of the box the primary horn is a more modern multi-chime.  Changed to the secondary horn by doing an F!!.  It seems to be the more correct earlier horn.  Won't know exactly which ones they are until I read them out using CV Magnager.

 

And I'll turn the cab lights off in the B units as all they do is show the internal wiring, etc.  But, the A unit cab lights which are on it neutral and then slowly fade to off at a few miles/hr if correcty set can be a nice feature as they show of the very nice cab detail.

 

Out of the box the lights seem to be set at max intensity which I will reprogram and tone down. Especially the class lights. 

 

I put one AB set on my programming track and fired up QSI CV Manager and my QSI Quantum Programmer and read out all the CV's in Service Mode and then saved them to a file.  Worked great.  No problems.  Now I have a baseline from which to start making any changes I wish to make.  

 

Fun!!

Thank you for the pictures and comments; beautiful engines.

 

Good luck!

As you can see from Erik's picture the lights are all bright.  Especially the number boards and class lights.  They were all set for maximum intensity out of the box.  Used CV MGR to Individually program each type down varying amounts-- and for me anyway -- they look a lot better.     

How many amps does an A-B set pull? Recently got into DCC, so I'm definitely getting my first Sunset with either these (If I can still snag a Rio Grande A-B) or one of the upcoming F7's. Stunning models.

The FT is an AB pair with decoder in the A unit running can motors in both A and B units with a tether between units.  My Rio Grande AB set, out of the box draws about 1.6 amps at 16 Volts DCC at speed step 50 of 128 on my NCE DCC remotes with the system set at 128 speed steps. 

 

This is measured with a Tony's true RMS RRAmpmeter. 

 

The A unit is all LED lighting which draw very little current and there are no lights in the B unit.  No smoke units.

 

Most if not all of my O scale DCC engines with LED lighting and modern efficient can motors and no smoke unit operate in this general amperage range.  Adding a consist of cars will of course up the amperage draw.

 

The rest of this probably should be on the DCC forum.  But I sense that serveral of you are considering going to DCC now that more and more engines are coming with DCC out of the box.

 

I believe in having a wide margin so I have an NCE Powerhouse DCC system with a 10 amp booster for my 32 X 17 around the walls layout.  I almost never run more than two trains with a few engines sitting in the yard humming or percolating.  So, one 10 amp booster has more than done the job to this point.

 

  The layout wiring has two power districts served by this booster each with a Tony's PSX1 circuit breaker for safety.  It has 12 gauge buss wiring.  If I should need more power I have a 2nd 10 amp booster that can be pressed into service on one of the power districts.

 

This is overkill but I just want the peace of mind to know that I don't need to worry about power and about stressing the DCC system components by running the system close to it's maximum rating.   The initial cost of my DCC system was a little daunting.  But, I feel it was a good up front investment.  If you think about it many if not most of us end up with lots of engines and rolling stock over the years the cost of which way outstrips the DCC system cost.  So, IMO a DCC system with plenty of capacity for expansion is a prudent investment. Just sayin'.

Thanks for this interesting information about DCC. This FT set is the first DCC-equipped engine I've ever purchased, so I really have no experience with DCC operation. I'm a little

intimidated by the notion of 100-page programming manuals and the need to decide upon and purchase a DCC control system for my rather simple and old-fashioned layout! My layout (essentially a large oval with some side tracks) is wired with a 10-gauge buss, so there is no issue about power distribution.

 

 

Getting O scale modelers to try DCC is one of the biggest benefits of these plastic diesels from Scott IMHO. I'm hopeful that it catches on for the steam engines as well. The QSI Titan boards have the ability to control a fan driven smoke unit too. I would really like to see this available in 2 rail from Sunset. Why should the 3 railers have all the fun?

Smoke units?  Yuck!!  Opinion.

I'm just going to get some diesel fuel and burn it discreetly under the table for "atmosphere." 

Thank you for the response, Bill! I have a 4 amp system and a small layout so I think I'll be fine. 

 

if I can't find a D&RGW AB set soon, I'll order an F7 set. Love how distinctive these FT are though. And how the silver shows up the details.

Thanks for the kind words, guys.  BTW, the full ABBA set running together went above 3 amps for a short time while coming up to speed then settled back to between 2.5 and 2.75 amps on my 1% grades and 64 in curves.

 

SANTIAGO.  4 amps running one train sounds just fine.  Good luck and have fun.

 

johnnyspeed.  Yep.  Here's hoping it catches on.

 

 

Yep, opinion.

 

One I have never understood. Personally, I can't look at a model steam engine without smoke and be impressed no matter how good the details are. No sound, no smoke, no sale. If you have the ability to add it then why not? Those that don't like it can simply turn it off.

 

Opinion.

+1

 

what curve can this set realistically run on in 2 rail (minimum)? 072, 084, 096, etc.

 

Thank you

Glad you like your ECOS DCC system.  Can you tell me a little more about your layout (length, width and curve sizes).

 

Thank you

daylight,

 

The rule of thumb is generally the wider the better. Having said that, I was able to run my AB set, with a gondola in tow, back and forth through a 24"r (O48 equivalent) curve.

See pictures below.

 

While adjusting the various individual lighting attributes with QSI CV MGR I found that  the B unit LED lights are wired directly from track power thru a board in the B unit rather than being "served" by the QSI decoder in the A unit.  So, they are not under DCC CV control. (The tether has two wires each for motor, speaker and track power).

 

So, I pulled off the shell and disconnected the lights.  While at it, I also put electrical tape over the portholes  --  as the guts can be seen even without the lights.

 

This was an excellent opportunity so I lubed the drive train.  I inspected one gearbox and found it appropriately lubed with white grease -- and noticed that a very small amount is oozing out and present on all axles which tells me all the gearboxes are okay.

 

It turns out the directions for "opening up your model" are incorrect.  There are 4 big screws under one truck and two under the other truck.  You don't need to remove the fuel tank to separate chassis and shell.  But, I did it anyway as removing it exposes major lube points.

 

 

 

Jonathan absolutely my friend!!

DCC with all the theatrics is the ONLY way to go  "FACT" not a bloody opinion.... ;-)

Once you see these 1:32 KM models in action running ESU and and and... It's pure bliss I will shoot some video later this weekend.

Check this out

http://youtu.be/WW0iGOSuVvg

http://youtu.be/W556ur3R3B4

These are all high end brass 1 scale models.

Erik: I have several of the KM1 models in 1/32 Gauge One with ESU. Even the whistle has steam coming from them now. The passenger cars also have DCC which you can dim the lighting, turn on the restroom lights seperaetly, and the vestabules seperately also. Best "life-Like" model I own! ! !   Worth every Eruo.  Stephen

Inside an A unit. And the OEM QSI Titan decoder in the FT A compared to the QSI Titan aftermarket double stack version sold thru retailers.   Both do the same things the same way.  Just different form factors.

 

 QSI Quantum Programmer at the right BTW.  Hint.  Hint.  Go to DCC!!

LOL!

 

Exactly Erik. How could ANYONE see a model like that and then tell you that they actually prefer DC without sound or smoke? Honestly? O scalers may be the most stubborn group in all of model railroading. DCC has been around for what, 30 years? I think American O scalers are so afraid of somebody seeing them run smoke and sound because they might be lumped in with 3 rail "toy" trains. Well, I don't care what you call me... just look at that video! That is freaking awesome! Thanks for posting it Erik.

 

I really hope Scott's models get more O scalers to try DCC/Sound. And I seriously hope Scott considers having Josh @ QSI work with him to offer DCC/Sound AND smoke on future steam. I would prefer to by Sunset steam over MTH, but I don't want to have to upgrade and retrofit every single engine I buy so I've been buying MTH. I was considering an L1 and S4 from Scott, but instead I'm going to pre-order the MTH H-10 and J1e for the reasons I just mentioned. I'd rather buy from Sunset if given a choice though.

Jonnyspeed: here is a youtube of my Km1 Germam D36 Passenger car at DCC Trains with ESU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJSfir7zAGk

Stephen

I saw that video the other day and I was so impressed I thought about posting it here. Incredible. 

 

Out of this world.  

 

Love that system so much. Sorry but there is not much to show about the layout at the moment bud. Planning stages, 48" and 50" inch radius max.

Austin Bill thank you for taking the time to photograph your FT's.  They are very helpful.

 

My next purchase is the DCC system, and I am grateful you included the decoder comparison. 

Howard, glad to help.  Have fun with DCC.  I can't imagine model railroading life without it.

 

 

Karma? The November Trains Magazine "Map of the Month" is about FT's.  Check it out.

The KM1 models are really spectacular!

 

The smoke from the stack is very well done, but the heavy "fog"

emanating from around the cylinders and blanketing the roadbed reminds

me of a movie version of "The Hound of the Baskervilles."

Santiagop23 and JohnnySpeed

thank you for the videos.  I have 2 KM1 Steam locos, OGEG ( with a working steam whistle, 0-5-0, not sure what that road name stands for, may be Austrian) and DB (2-5-0)  Both feature their digital sound system and dynamic smoke.

http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/km1.asp  (an engine in action)

 

I am interested in the KM1 DCC car with the lights.  Do you know where I can purchase it?

 

Thank you

Update on ABBA performance.

 

Today I finished going thru all four Rio Grande ABBA units including lightly but thoroughly lubing them while I had fuel tanks off which exposes the U joints and drive shaft(s) bearings.  This included checking that the gear boxes came from the factory adequate lubed with lithium white grease.  They all were.

 

Then I ran them in for a while forward and reverse.

 

At 50 of 128 DCC speed steps, 16 VDCC while running light and cruising in the same notch -- The ABBA set never reached 2 amps!!  

 

I could wham the throttle from 50 to almost max and quickly back off and get them up to around 3 amps but that's not realistic.

 

But the big WOW was I decoupled and separated each AB pair about 6 inches and ran them around the layout twice in forward and twice in reverse.  About 400 ft. total.  The two pairs tracked each other almost perfectly and at the end were within a couple of inches of that original 6 inch separation!! 

 

AWESOME performance, sounds, lights and looks.  Scott has hit a home run with The FT's!!!

Question: Was the steps attached to the trucks or the body?

Stephen

That's great news. Thanks Bill.