Sunset Models. Translation needed.

In order to see if the cab is out of square you would have to take a picture of the engine from the side. The cab number should be horizontal in the camera lens.

The error is not evident from the picures you posted.

Pete

Thank-you Pete, does this picture help? Is it the 3661 number that you are referring to?

Do you still have the model, or is it in the buyer's possession?

If you have it, we need a photo taken at the cab level, directly from the side (not above or below).  It would be good to have the photo include the the surface the model is sitting on (for reference purposes) and part of the boiler.

I sure hope you don't have a buyer that's trying to scam you.

Jay

What Jay says. It should be taken directly from the side. From the last picture there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with it at least not to the degree implied.

Pete

The only thing I see is the LH cab rail is in the lower wrong hole. Is that what the buyer is talking about?

I sent the buyer return postage. I'm going to assess it when it is returned, I'll do what you all suggest and take the photo.

I wish it was evident in the pics I had taken... want to make sure a different train hasn't been put in the box.

Thank-you all so much!

Chuck,

I'm not sure, I quoted what he said in the initial post...

The vertical handrail on the fireman's side doesn't look like it's in the correct hole and/or position.  I'm not an expert on this 2-10-2 model so it may just be me.

Steve

I suspect buyers remorse. from the vague description and how easy it would be to fix......The worker at the factory just inserted it wrong, and when looking from the rear, the railing looks 'bent up'. 

Be careful, the buyer could be scamming you and swapping his messed up loco for yours. This sounds fishy to me

Your model looks ok.  Sunset jigs these things, and cabs etc., are always straight.  Me too - hope you are not getting scammed.

Too late for this transaction, but one thing for you to consider in the future. Take a sharpie marker and make a dot, or mark on a screw head in an inconspicuous place. I'd suggest somewhere on the bottom of the engine. Even if it's black on black, it will show up. It doesn't harm the engine and is easily cleaned off.  Most people, even if they see it won't think twice about it.

Take a close-up picture of your mark; time and date stamp your picture. It will help ensure that what you get back is what you shipped.

A bit more "post transaction" advice: Take a shot of each side, and the front and rear of the model with the camera level with the model. Use a tripod if you have one. If you don't have a tripod, rest the camera on something at the same height as the model. The more of an angle you have with the camera makes it more difficult to pick up problems like which we are discussing. Good Luck!

Simon

The digital images aren't costing you anything but time!

bellymoondrop posted:

Hello all you train lovers out there.

I recently sold an item;

SUNSET MODELS O Scale BRASS SP F SERIES 2-10-2 #3661 F-3 2-RAIL

Then I got a communication saying,

"The locomotive cab is bent out of square with the rest of the locomotive. It appears to be bent up in the rear, and with no damage to the paint, it seems it was assembled this way, with the damage not being caused in transit. This stands out like a sore thumb."

Suzanne,     Looking at the above pic, the buyer is saying the front of the cab roof (more or less above the "3" on the side) is LOWER than the back of the cab roof. You would need to measure up just past the "1" on the side, because the back corner of the cab roof is beveled inward. In other words, the straight edge across the bottom of the cab roof should be parallel with a line drawn across the tops of the numbers. Probably pretty trivial, but some of us modelers are a bit neurotic! These things are hand made and stuff happens on occasion!

Hope this helps!

Simon

I love this community. Thanks for your great suggestions and help.

I haven't refunded any money yet, and I have the option to appeal the return so if I think it is not the same item, no refund will be given. I want to be fair and assess this properly. You've all been tremendously helpful.

Suzanne

Simon Winter, I will do that as soon as it is returned, thank-you!

I also post in my for sale ad that all items are sold “as is” and there are no returns, only a guarantee the item will be non DOA. There are some insanely cheap train guys out there and I never underestimate people’s complete lack of integrity. Their mistake shouldn’t be your fault.

Mike CT posted:

Check the package-ing.  The molded foam box that came with the model.  Rough handling, during shipping, causes the model to move/shift inside the foam container, which can do damage to fragile brass models.  You should be able to note, where the foam, has been distorted by the model shifting, do to miserable handling.  Area where the foam has been distorted would also indicate model damage.   IMO.  Mike CT   Also note that brass, hand assembled models can have production defects. 

Possible but this looks more like buyers remorse. I will be surprised if there is anything wrong with this other than the handrail Chuck pointed out. Hopefully the item sent will be the item returned.

Pete

Suzanne, if you need an expert opinion, contact Gary Schrader. gs-sj1944@comcast.net. He does not provide a phone number until after you email him. 

He improves/fixes mistakes of  brass models  as well as makes prototype models for several brass O scale manufacturers. He is an expert on steam locomotives like SF, UP, SP, NYC, etc. steam engines. 

Don

Matt Makens posted:

I also post in my for sale ad that all items are sold “as is” and there are no returns, only a guarantee the item will be non DOA. There are some insanely cheap train guys out there and I never underestimate people’s complete lack of integrity. Their mistake shouldn’t be your fault.

Sold a guy a K-Line scale (Intermountain) reefer in the original packaging. Claimed it was damaged, ebay let him file a claim without sending it back. About a week later another seller contacted me asking if this individual had claimed a product he purchased arrived damaged. Was clear to see what was happening. Hopefully yours turns out better.

I've had pretty good luck selling a couple of guys claimed damage and wanted a partial refund.  After granting the first request, I decided to simply insist they ship it back for a refund.  I've never gotten any either of the remaining items back, and I'm fairly sure it was just a buyer trying to make a quick buck off me.

I'm not ashamed to say, I'm a pretty good packer, and normally when I ship something, it doesn't get damaged in transit.  I can't say that for stuff I've received, I get all sorts of interesting stuff out of the box.

FWIW, for expensive items, I do put ID on them.  If you look closely at any expensive board or inside the shell of a locomotive, you'll find an engraved mark from items I ship.

Wonder if buyer's listening? 

This sounds like a scam to me.   Never send return shipping.  Have buyer ship and then offer to refund the shipping costs when you resolve the issue.  My guess is he changed his mind and is looking for an excuse to get his money back, or he had a busted up engine that he is trying to pawn off to you.  Hopefully I'm wrong.  Good Luck.

I don't see anything wrong with it from the photos. I also think that this guy could be scamming as well. I know whenever I have purchased anything on eBay, I usually take a bit to read details about everything and go from there. I have contacted sellers but mostly to thank them for having this out for me to buy. I have never had any issues where whatever was for sale wasn't in good condition when it got to me, but I guess because all those I've bought from have done an outstanding job packaging items like they were glass.

I hope you can get this resolved without getting any unwanted headaches.

Suzanne,

I believe that your second picture in which you have the tender facing the wrong way may have led the buyer to think you are a newbie and susceptible to scamming.  

Just a thought.

Best of luck.

Ed

Suzanne, these are the type of photos you need to show if something is out of square.  I did this on the quick but the camera should be at eye level to the model and both should be as close to level as possible.  X Y axis of model and camera should be aligned. If you have a drafting triangle use it as it will be sitting on the same plane as the model and is quite illustrative of any out of aligned surfaces.  Let me also say it is not unusual that brass models have out of aligned surfaces, running boards, cabs, pilots........ looking at the photos I am not sure if these are your photos or the buyers.  I cannot see any out of aligned parts on these photos but they are not ideal for judging.  Another thing to watch out for is buyers having an identical model but with flaws will buy one like theirs and try and pull a swap returning the flawed one they had for yours.  I used to sell on eBay a lot usually keeping 150 ads running continuously and had people buy my item and try and return another.  I started using UV markers and taking photos of my models under black light to have proof of the model I was selling but not using these photos in my ad.  Remember this, there are predatory sellers on eBay but several times more Predatory buyers on the site.   EBay will throw you off their site if you get caught trying to defraud buyers but they very seldom  throw buyers off the site. Good Luck,          j

Matt Makens,

I have a no return policy and I also state the item is sold "as is", but the site I sell on honors returns if the item arrives defective or if the buyer claims it was not accurately represented in the photos. That seems to sway toward the buyer, however, when I called to tell them what had transpired, they said to have the item returned and then inspect it to see if it is the one I sold, and to verify if the defect exists... if not I can open an appeal and in that case the buyer gets no refund and no item. Strange policy! 

Ed Kelly,

I am definitely a newbie. This enterprise is for a family member and I am a fish out of water flopping on the shore. I've had over 100 sales totaling $13,000 in 2 months because there is evidently no passion like that of the train enthusiast! I am stunned at the generosity of the people here, it's been a godsend as I try and understand what I am doing!

It's fascinating to learn about this hobby. Truly.

Could this be the issue? Hard to tell with the angle and lighting. Plus I know nothing about brass steam. 

I really hope it's not a scam.  Also, I would take Jay's advice from your Kadee loc thread and find a local O scaler who can help identify and value your items. Seems like you have a nice collection there!

Bossman284,

eBay pretty much insists that the buyer send the return postage.

I just sold 3 more Sunset Models, I'm thinking I should rephotograph them with all this new invaluable advice!

Pete M,

Well, I don't know! What are you pointing out in the circle? I have an untrained eye for these things. 

Sigh,

Suzanne

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

Well it looks like maybe there's a gap above the rivet line at the top of the cab back wall and the curve of the roof. But let's wait for one of the brass steam experts to comment!   

Suzanne, glad to hear sales are good. Selling is something I know I wouldn't do myself because I just like my stuff. I'd say though that there are the self evident rules to follow(common sense) and you seem to be doing just that.

I notice in my browsing of items on eBay, that for each seller there is some common things, and some not. Generally people will put either few item details or extremely detailed. Some people don't have a photo of their item which to me would be not something I'd consider.

The photos you have above I would say are on par with what I usually look at. Regardless of how you arrange the items(tender backwards or forward) I wouldn't think would matter as it is pretty obvious which way after looking at it which way it would go together. Going forward for you the best advice is coming from your fellow OGR members, don't hesitate to ask questions when you are wanting advice.

bellymoondrop posted:

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

Buy yourself a black light marking kit they have them at office supply businesses.  And on eBay.     j

Dave,

I am amazed how well it has gone, truly, this is a family endeavor that I offered to help with, knowing only that I love the sound of trains in the middle of the night. My grandfather lived near the RR tracks here in Reno and I always loved trains. That is the extent of my knowledge, lol. Clearly, as I don't know which way the tender goes...and last week I was looking up the work "tender" in the dictionary. Agreed, OGR forum members are golden. 

Suzanne

Will do, John! 

Ron464nyc posted:

Wonder if buyer's listening? 

I've wondered that myself! 

Don Sweet posted:

Suzanne, if you need an expert opinion, contact Gary Schrader. gs-sj1944@comcast.net. He does not provide a phone number until after you email him. 

He improves/fixes mistakes of  brass models  as well as makes prototype models for several brass O scale manufacturers. He is an expert on steam locomotives like SF, UP, SP, NYC, etc. steam engines. 

Don

Thanks for the referral Don!