Sunset Models. Translation needed.

Suzanne---Sometimes it may be cheaper to let a dissatisfied buyer or even an  unscrupulous chiseler have a partial refund on an item such as this.  You will be out shipping and I presume insurance twice just to be where you were before you listed it. THEN, you may have to sell for considerably less, if indeed there is a defect.

Do some research on the buyer, such as feedback, length of time on ebay etc. Try to get a feel for his character.  If he seems on the up and up, Try to negotiate with him.  You don't REALLY want this item back, if you can settle for a reasonable refund-----

AND, sigh, I hope you aren't being taken advantage of for being a lady------You know about predatory mechanics, used car salesmen , etc.  

But wise of you to seek out some wisdom (whiz-dumb?) from us self-proclaimed experts!

Good Luck and don't let any jackals slicker you!  -Salty Rails-

If the buyer still has the model have them make a photo like my side view with a drafting triangle even offer to purchase the angle for them.  Have they made photos to try and show what they are referring to ?   Save my photo and mail it to them and see if they can duplicate.   Something I see, if you put a straight edge along the running board and extend it through the cab the front and rear of the cab along the bottom look dead on square.   j        

Salty Rails posted:

Suzanne---Sometimes it may be cheaper to let a dissatisfied buyer or even an  unscrupulous chiseler have a partial refund on an item such as this.  You will be out shipping and I presume insurance twice just to be where you were before you listed it. THEN, you may have to sell for considerably less, if indeed there is a defect.

Do some research on the buyer, such as feedback, length of time on ebay etc. Try to get a feel for his character.  If he seems on the up and up, Try to negotiate with him.  You don't REALLY want this item back, if you can settle for a reasonable refund-----

AND, sigh, I hope you aren't being taken advantage of for being a lady------You know about predatory mechanics, used car salesmen , etc.  

But wise of you to seek out some wisdom (whiz-dumb?) from us self-proclaimed experts!

Good Luck and don't let any jackals slicker you!  -Salty Rails-

Dear Salty,

I called eBay when I got the letter from the buyer. They said to get the item back so I could inspect it since ebay won't file an appeal based on photos alone. I can appeal the return if I suspected foul play. If that happens he will not get a refund and he will not have the item. But they said I had to have the item in order to dispute the claim.

If it is faulty, the refund is a given, but if not, a can of Whoop-*** is at the ready.

Here is the initial message:

JohnActon posted:

If the buyer still has the model have them make a photo like my side view with a drafting triangle even offer to purchase the angle for them.  Have they made photos to try and show what they are referring to ?   Save my photo and mail it to them and see if they can duplicate.   Something I see, if you put a straight edge along the running board and extend it through the cab the front and rear of the cab along the bottom look dead on square.   j        

I asked him to take photos and he said "I'm away from home at the moment", but when I replied to just return it, he got it to the Post Office.

Seems fishy to me.

bellymoondrop posted:

JohnActon posted:

If the buyer still has the model have them make a photo like my side view with a drafting triangle even offer to purchase the angle for them.  Have they made photos to try and show what they are referring to ?   Save my photo and mail it to them and see if they can duplicate.   Something I see, if you put a straight edge along the running board and extend it through the cab. The front and rear of the cab along the bottom look dead on square.   j        

I asked him to take photos and he said "I'm away from home at the moment", but when I replied to just return it, he got it to the Post Office.

Seems fishy to me.

Ya Think  ! ?     Agreed.                   Hope this is just a case of buyers remorse.      j

JohnActon posted:

bellymoondrop posted:

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

 

Knowing for sure and proving are two different things If the one you mail has markings in black light ink and the one returned does not you have your proof.   j

JohnActon posted:

JohnActon posted:

bellymoondrop posted:

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

 All I have is more photos than I listed that may bear out if there are discrepancies...

Knowing for sure and proving are two different things If the one you mail has markings in black light ink and the one returned does not you have your proof.   j

I've got one more suggestion. In the future, consider posting your for sale items here first. It will save you the eBay fees. I have had excellent success on this forum. 

BTW, a raw newbie refers to the tender as a "coal car", and frequently lists it separately from the engine (rendering the engine nearly useless).

Just my $0.02.

Gilly@N&W posted:

I've got one more suggestion. In the future, consider posting your for sale items here first. It will save you the eBay fees. I have had excellent success on this forum. 

BTW, a raw newbie refers to the tender as a "coal car", and frequently lists it separately from the engine (rendering the engine nearly useless).

Just my $0.02.

I posted a couple of items here but had no response. Someone wrote me to say this forum is largely 3-Railers, do you think that is accurate?

It is mostly three railers but I don't think that was the reason for the lack of responses. You might want to do a little more research on current pricing.

Pete

If nothing else, BellyMoon has gotten a short course on every conceivable suspicion and theory of machination and deceit imaginable. Be interesting to see how this turns out. 

Model railroading. The world's most dangerous hobby.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've had pretty good luck selling a couple of guys claimed damage and wanted a partial refund.  After granting the first request, I decided to simply insist they ship it back for a refund.  I've never gotten any either of the remaining items back, and I'm fairly sure it was just a buyer trying to make a quick buck off me.

I'm not ashamed to say, I'm a pretty good packer, and normally when I ship something, it doesn't get damaged in transit.  I can't say that for stuff I've received, I get all sorts of interesting stuff out of the box.

FWIW, for expensive items, I do put ID on them.  If you look closely at any expensive board or inside the shell of a locomotive, you'll find an engraved mark from items I ship.

John ,  ten years ago I sold a Heathkit Mono tube amp on eBay to a guy in Moscow. The amp made it with nary a scratch all tubes intact and still functioning when he unpacked it.  I thought this was easier than packaging a brass loco if you don't have the original box the loco came in.  J

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

Larry

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Yes.

mwb posted:

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Yes.

 

 A seller can no longer leave negative feedback for a buyer so long as the buyer pays on time. It's been this way for quite a while now. So are you aware that the feedback rating showing in the sellers ad only goes back one year and you have to actually go to their feedback page and look deep to be certain.  Do you go to the trouble of looking up the feedback of the person who left the negative. Sometimes it is the person who fires off the first negative who is the crook. My very first ebay transaction ended up with me getting a negative feedback. From the time the seller's ad started till the time it ended, and I won, the seller changed his eBay ID. This is before PayPal and the seller wanted me to send a $300 USPS money order to a PO Box address in the Arizona boondocks a town that is not on any map. This raised some red flags in my head so I requested a phone number and the seller refused to give me a phone number so I walked away without paying and he left me a Negative feedback.  I did the same for him with an explanation on the feedback as to why I did not pay. Then the guy added an explanation to my feedback that I tried to negotiate the price down after I had won which was a bald face lie.  I sort of kept up with the guy looking at his feedback from time to time and about a year later he had five more negatives and was banned from eBay, then without my request the negative feedback I had received from him just disappeared.    The people at eBay really do try and make their system fair, honest and safe but crooks and idiots are very clever.          j

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

With that attitude, I hope that I never bid on anything that you list! BTW, my feedback rating is 100% positive.

So the item has been returned. A wonderful man I was connected to through this site came over to inspect it. He put the railing right and said there is nothing wrong with the train.

The buyer mangled the foam on the return, so I'm steamed about that.

Calling eBay to ask what my options are...

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

No, I would say more like a grilled cheese sandwich.

PRRMP54 posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

With that attitude, I hope that I never bid on anything that you list! BTW, my feedback rating is 100% positive.

Well with an attitude like that it is no wonder your feedback is 100%

JohnActon posted:

mwb posted:

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Yes.

 

 A seller can no longer leave negative feedback for a buyer so long as the buyer pays on time. It's been this way for quite a while now. So are you aware that the feedback rating showing in the sellers ad only goes back one year and you have to actually go to their feedback page and look deep to be certain.  Do you go to the trouble of looking up the feedback of the person who left the negative. Sometimes it is the person who fires off the first negative who is the crook. My very first ebay transaction ended up with me getting a negative feedback. From the time the seller's ad started till the time it ended, and I won, the seller changed his eBay ID. This is before PayPal and the seller wanted me to send a $300 USPS money order to a PO Box address in the Arizona boondocks a town that is not on any map. This raised some red flags in my head so I requested a phone number and the seller refused to give me a phone number so I walked away without paying and he left me a Negative feedback.  I did the same for him with an explanation on the feedback as to why I did not pay. Then the guy added an explanation to my feedback that I tried to negotiate the price down after I had won which was a bald face lie.  I sort of kept up with the guy looking at his feedback from time to time and about a year later he had five more negatives and was banned from eBay, then without my request the negative feedback I had received from him just disappeared.    The people at eBay really do try and make their system fair, honest and safe but crooks and idiots are very clever.          j

Your reply is too wordy.  “No bids for you, one month!”

bellymoondrop posted:

So the item has been returned. A wonderful man I was connected to through this site came over to inspect it. He put the railing right and said there is nothing wrong with the train.

The buyer mangled the foam on the return, so I'm steamed about that.

Calling eBay to ask what my options are...

Hey kiddo, my email is in my profile, I checked your profile but couldn’t find your email, contact me if you wish, I’ve been selling trains on that certain web site for many many moons now.....if you need some pointers and some ideas so you don’t get stung, you can hit me up...........Pat...

Ok guys after a bit of fun, it’s not easy to determine who is trustworthy on ebay as a buyer quick pay or not.  I had an issue on ebay with a buyer and after some research, I discovered several sellers also had issues with this buyer by reading the responses of the seller to negative feedback left from the buyer.  I had dealings with several of the sellers that this buyer trashed and I believe the sellers and not the buyer.  After the issue was resolved through eBay, I blocked that buyer.  

I just bought a beautiful Atlas SW loco from a seller in the USA we had a few hitches at first, he had never used the Global shipping system before, we worked it out and we both learnt something and we ended up like old friends.

It's amazing how you can work out  if a seller is honest or not by emails but then again after many years and hundreds of transactions I should be able.

I still do my research and am wary of the seller on the first transaction because I am 16,000 miles away. I'm happy I get what I want in the end. Roo.

harmonyards posted:

bellymoondrop posted:

So the item has been returned. A wonderful man I was connected to through this site came over to inspect it. He put the railing right and said there is nothing wrong with the train.

The buyer mangled the foam on the return, so I'm steamed about that.

Calling eBay to ask what my options are...

Hey kiddo, my email is in my profile, I checked your profile but couldn’t find your email, contact me if you wish, I’ve been selling trains on that certain web site for many many moons now.....if you need some pointers and some ideas so you don’t get stung, you can hit me up...........Pat...

Email sent, thanks Pat!

Here are 2 photos the buyer provided saying:

"For your information, I am an expert on O Scale Steam Locomotives, being so for the last 50 years, and if any other expert examined the model and found it to be perfect, he or she must be blind. I have attached photos I took prior to shipping and anyone can plainly see the cab floor is curved where it is supposed to be flat, and the cab is not square with the boiler, it is tilted up in the rear and is very pronounced. The back wall of the cab should be at 90 degrees perpendicular to the rails."

Can anyone concur with this claim? 

OK I see with a close up what he is taking about.

Chuck Sartor posted:

OK I see with a close up what he is taking about.

So he is correct? That's what I am trying to determine.Thanks, Chuck.

From the picture it appears the buyer is correct. You can check the cab floor by placing a straight edge along side it to see if its curved up or not. A camera lens could create that same distortion but straight edges and machinist squares will tell for sure.

Pete

Norton posted:

From the picture it appears the buyer is correct. You can check the cab floor by placing a straight edge along side it to see if its curved up or not. A camera lens could create that same distortion but straight edges and machinist squares will tell for sure.

Pete

Thanks Pete, I appreciate the input.

Yes.  That cab is seriously crooked.

bob2 posted:

Yes.  That cab is seriously crooked.

I wonder what happened to it! Maybe it got dropped.

Looks like an easy fix to me.  I wouldn't have complained.

Jay

Is this a picture you took before sending it out?

Its not a perfect angle but the cab floor does not appear to be curved up nor does the cab.

Are you confident this is the same engine you received back?

Pete

Norton posted:

Is this a picture you took before sending it out?

Its not a perfect angle but the cab floor does not appear to be curved up nor does the cab.

Are you confident this is the same engine you received back?

Pete

Hi Pete,

No, I'm not confident and I didn't mark the original item as has been suggested going forward. I actually feel ill right now thinking about it.

The buyer escalated rapidly in his communication and of course I was fearful of getting a negative review.

Live & learn, I'll be more careful going forward.

Thanks,

Suzanne

Pete,

And yes, that's a picture I took before it sold.

Suzanne    I ship from the USA quite regularly, to Down Under, and to me that is shipping damage, Ive experanced it a few times. The cab and cowcatcher are the most vulnerable, once the loco starts moving in the box, or has room to move this is the possible outcome. I concur with Roo if it was shipped, and insured there should be away to work it out. To me, and this is my opinion, I cant see any mis alignment, after enlarging your photos. The packages we sent through the mail can go through fearsome trauma before they reach us.

I'm suspecting that the back of the cab took a jostle during shipping - looks like it is screwed to the rear of the floor and the jostle bent the floor upwards a bit.  Agree with Jay's comment.

Looks like two separate models.  Zoomed in, the before picture appears perfectly straight.  The buyer’s escalated temperament makes my spidey senses tingle as well. 

Tom

You might have already done this.

Why not send the buyers name to a few of the experts like Bob2 and Jay etc, OFFLINE they might know the person and be able to tell you if he is an honest bloke or a shifty bloke I repeat offline not through this thread.

If someone knows him to be an honest person then it could be your problem the way it was packed, he does say he has been in the game for 50 years someone here must know him, but do it discrete.  Roo.