@Railthunder posted:

As there are several folks on here like me that are rabid passenger fans I wanted to share some pictures of several cars from the latest Northern Pacific North Coast Limited production.  My layout room is a big mess at the moment due to a remodeling project so the display track was the stage.  

Overall my first impression is these are gorgeous models.  Scott and the Sunset crew continue to make improvements with each new passenger run.  I really like the diaphragms and ends.  

Enjoy and Happy Railroading!

Simply beautiful--Thanks for the photos.

I'm particularly interested in the Lewis and Clark Traveller's Rest car.  I am not sure how you would  accomplish this, but a photograph or two of the interior would be greatly appreciated.  These lounge cars were heavily marketed by NP at the time, and became quite well known for their distinctive interiors.  I'd like to see how Scott and crew captured that uniqueness.

Thank you, again, for the fine photographs.

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

Railthunder, thanks for sharing the pix of a truly beautiful train.  Indeed, Northern Pacific knew how to run passenger trains and the North Coast Limited was a Train deLuxe if there ever was one!  The NP also knew how to professionally promote the territory it served including Yellowstone National Park. 

It's a tragedy that the NP route through Montana was sold to Montana Rail Link, thus severing part of the NP's mainline to the Pacific Northwest.  Of course,  MRL has become a modern railroad success story in itself, considering how much track in the U.S. has disappeared over the last say 50 years or so.  Much of this track came up as a result of the Merger Madness that for the most part originated in the 60s. 

Not to forget that the creation of Burlington Northern in 1970 saw a lot of track removed too.  Not without blunders of course, which included the NP's line over Stampede Pass, which was sold and became a Washington State regional.  Then came the abandonment of the SP&S in Eastern Washington, and not to forget the sale of the NP Montana track to MRL.  Even Great Northern's former Hillyard in Spokane came up as a resulf of perhaps (?) another smart move which can be credited to "Big Nothin" (as some railfans came to call BN) gross mismanagement.  

Of course, it must be remembered that BN was forced to swallow one of their big blunders big time on a silver platter, when it reached the decision that it was in the best interest of the railroad to repurchase the NP Stampede Pass line back, not to forget at a fancy inflated price as well.  Most railfans remember this was due to the unexpected overnight explosive traffic growth as it began to emerge from the Asian Pacific market.   As a result, it litterally taxed the former GN, as well as the remander of the SP&S, to the limit.

Fast Forward to Century 21:  It's a pity a privately owned North Coast Limited Cruise Train can't emerge from the ashes of what had become one of the most popular elegant passenger trains in North America.  Picture with me if you will, P40s in the two-tone green and powering a set of brand spanking new cars, built from the plans of the original cars?

ALL ABOARRRRRRD! ... as you prepare to take the ride of a lifetime, to enjoy the splender of the Great Pacific Northwest and sheer beauty of Yellowstone National Park along the way, on the all new North Coast Limited!

 

 

They were a class act for sure.  My inspiration for the NCL purchase is my father's family moved to Montana in the early 1900s, but had to move to Florida account an illness in the family.   Aside from my southeast roots, the NP has a lot to offer modeling wise and I love the semaphore signals.  

@Pingman posted:

Simply beautiful--Thanks for the photos.

I'm particularly interested in the Lewis and Clark Traveller's Rest car.  I am not sure how you would  accomplish this, but a photograph or two of the interior would be greatly appreciated.  These lounge cars were heavily marketed by NP at the time, and became quite well known for their distinctive interiors.  I'd like to see how Scott and crew captured that uniqueness.

Thank you, again, for the fine photographs.

Hi Carl,  I'm planning to open up the interiors soon and will certainly take some pictures.  I'm going to do window treatments to the green tinted ones that were used and instal more figures.  

Howard

Great looking set. Thanks for the pics. Enjoy!

Nice cars. I was torn about spending the money for them, but am satisfied I didn't, just because, (just my opinion - emphasize that), the lighter shade of green isn't the right color to me. Somewhat too green green. Again, just my personal sense of color. For others, it's just fine, I'm sure, and they'll be glad they got the set. Having seen the engines, they match the cars as well, so it'll be a sharp set.

The Northern Pacific used DuPont Industial Imron 3.5 HG Loewy Light Green for this color, a very resilient paint. I don't think the elements have much to do with it. Can't use copyrighted photos from books I have, but the below pictures of a old NP ad and a very expensive brass HO model generally depict the color. 

Very nice 

Honestly, I don't know how anyone renders a judgment about color from a color print, magazine, computer image, etc. given the variances in all the devices, as well as the lighting of the subject, camera settings, etc.

And in reference to paint applied 60 years ago, I'm even more reluctant to speak with confidence without benefit of a color drift card from the railroad and/or paint supplier.

After looking at the photos I took with my phone, compared to in the room with natural light the camera definitely brightened up the light green.  I would say they are very close or bang on with the HO brass model photo.  I'll try to take a shot in natural light tomorrow and some more of the cars also.  

This may or may not be helpful.  I took these photos at the NP Depot Museum in Toppenish, WA in 2018.  NH Joe

This is the old NP mainline.  I believe it is operated by the BNSF today.  I didn't see any trains while I was there.

This is an excellent museum for NP fans.  It has a wide range of equipment and artifacts inside and outside.  Toppenish is known as the city of murals and is an interesting place to visit.

The Inland Empire.  I don't know if this car is original to the North Coast Limited or not.  Does anyone?

Restored caboose.  I didn't ask but I would imagine that the museum would want to get this as close to the original colors as possible.  The museum probably has the original paint chips.

 I think that this is a fantasy scheme for a caboose.  All the NP cabooses that I saw as a kid were red as far as I can recall.  

I think the set looks VERY good and my opinion is they sweated the respective green shades relative to the as-delivered Loewy designed prototype scheme as best as possible.  So bravo indeed Sunset.

Conversely I believe this scheme is indeed tricky in actual service, especially susceptible to UV oxidation and the harsh climate effect of the service route.  Long term year round weather exposure is especially noticeable on the retired museum cars, but also visible in in-service photos in books (thinking the excellent 4-Ways West color series by Joe Shine) which while subject to source slide and print color shift of course, have shots showing  tint variation between like cars in the same consist. Both shades suffer from going flat too, so part of the variation reflect the degree of gloss (wax) present in the finish at the time sharply, just like on a 50 era automobile in pastel shades. High maintenance scheme.

But again congrats Sunset! 

And yeah, I want to see how they did all that interior wood paneling in that lounge too. 

I bought just 1 dome sleeper and I think its fantastic.  Lots of Amtrak cars on order so I had to limit my order on these.

The two-tone green looks "spot on" to me for the "as delivered" cars. I rode the NCL in '64 and that's real close to what I remember.

Six years later I photographed the NCL section of the BN combined "Afternoon Zephyr-Empire Builder-NCL" departing Chicago's Union Station in June 1970. Three years later I photographed Amtrak's "North Coast Hiawatha" entering the east portal of Bozeman Tunnel on Bozeman Pass in June 1973. As you can see, the two-tone green scheme held up pretty well over almost two decades of service.

As for dinner in the dining on the NCL--Oh! What a baked potato!!

@Rick Wright posted:

The two-tone green looks "spot on" to me for the "as delivered" cars. I rode the NCL in '64 and that's real close to what I remember.

Six years later I photographed the NCL section of the BN combined "Afternoon Zephyr-Empire Builder-NCL" departing Chicago's Union Station in June 1970. Three years later I photographed Amtrak's "North Coast Hiawatha" entering the east portal of Bozeman Tunnel on Bozeman Pass in June 1973. As you can see, the two-tone green scheme held up pretty well over almost two decades of service.

As for dinner in the dining on the NCL--Oh! What a baked potato!!

Thanks for the memories and the photos, especially the one with the two domes back-to-back.

I'm positive that my readings on the NP NCL said that NP's policy was NEVER to have two domes back-to-back; that they were always to be separated by at least one other car.

Nice to know "there is a prototype" for everything.  In my case, I'll be running four domes in a seven car consist, so a couple of domes will be back-to-back, at least until I paint another pax car.

EDIT:  Misread the original post; it's a BN train, not NP, as Rusty points out below.

@Pingman posted:

I'm positive that my readings on the NP NCL said that NP's policy was NEVER to have two domes back-to-back; that they were always to be separated by at least one other car.

 

Except, the NCL in the photo no longer NP, it's a BN train.

However, never say never.  There could be several reasons as to why there's no coach or sleeper between domes.  I found at least three photo's via Google of NP's NCL with two consecutive domes.

Rusty

This is a great topic and the Sunset cars are gorgeous.  Another triumph for Scott & Co.

Perhaps someone can explain to me why Rick Wright's photos appear to have been taken through a magenta filter?  He comments that the paint job held up well but with the magenta tint who could tell?  Is that what you see or is it just me?  If it's me, any idea how can I fix it?

I don't have a dog in this controversy, but I note that BN apparently existed in 1970, and Imron did not appear until 1973.

I know nothing of the colors, and did have my hands on a K-Line 21" dome car.  Paint looked good to me - I'da kept it, but the dome itself looked too small and Lionel-like.  I am not a great fan of cool green colors.

K-Line did well on all but a few.  Their Great Northern cars were stunning, as were their B&O.  I think they missed the mark badly on the SPDaylight scheme, and the PRR and Milw cars had brown in place of Tuscan and maroon.  Just me.

I should add that all Sunset efforts eclipse the K-Line products.  They are, of course, more expensive; you get what you pay for?

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

I stand corrected, but didn't the Northern Pacific place coaches and sleepers between dome cars, so the passengers views of the landscape wouldn't distract that of their fellow passengers riding in the next dome in front of them?  NP put on a first class show and it's a pity that this level of service began to slide downward after the merger that created BN. 

 

I wouldn't put the blame entirely on BN.  Photo's I've found on Google with no "spacer" car  between domes were taken in the late 1960's.

While it may have been practice for the NP, there could be reasons for occasionally not having a "spacer" car between domes during "the good ol' days.".

Rusty

@Rapid Transit Holmes posted:

This is a great topic and the Sunset cars are gorgeous.  Another triumph for Scott & Co.

Perhaps someone can explain to me why Rick Wright's photos appear to have been taken through a magenta filter?  He comments that the paint job held up well but with the magenta tint who could tell?  Is that what you see or is it just me?  If it's me, any idea how can I fix it?

I too see the magenta cast. Saved them - they look normal. Reposting - let's see:

In Firefox, the original posting has the magenta cast in the photos. In Safari, they look normal. So, I'm guessing it has something to do with the color profile and Firefox not liking or recognizing it. It was SFprofT (OpticFIlm 7600i).icc - I saved them as Adobe RGB.

David

Copies of the drift cards are shown above. Also note that the Loewy light green is essentially the same as the photographs posted by Rick Wright. This color is basically the same on most photographs of the North Coast Limited. A Northern Pacific advertising photo is shown below. Obviously the NP would have shown the fresh "as delivered" color in their ads, not a faded color, and of course the drift card would show the original color. Note the head-on colors of the engine in the photo, and the drift cards. They're the same colors. (Compare the darker green paint as well.) The Sunset car is shown at the bottom for comparison. Folks can draw their own conclusions. The Sunset cars are still sharp, and will make a nice train.

A couple of years ago I purchased a USA Trains NP vista dome car on a whim because of the sheer beauty of the piece - 35" of painted aluminum. The scale detail and especially the trucks made it a bargain at just $300!

Would be willing to sell if anyone is interested as I have no place to display it any longer...

I had a long day today on a home remodeling project and didn't finish early enough to take a car or two out into natural sunlight for a photo.  Will try again over the next several days.  

Light effects color. 

Every time the discussion of color fidelity comes up, I'm compelled to post this comparison.  This is the same locomotive, same camera, different lighting.  The model's paint matches the EMD paint chip:

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Light effects color. 

Every time the discussion of color fidelity comes up, I'm compelled to post this comparison.  This is the same locomotive, same camera, different lighting.  The model's paint matches the EMD paint chip:

Rusty

Not sure what this proves. Taking pictures of an object indoors with different different types of flourscent light bulbs and seeing different results is to be expected. If they all looked the same, now that would be news.  

There are hundreds and hundreds of pictures of the NCL out there, taken in all kinds of light conditions, plus color drifts, plus NCL ads, and none of them show the color used on the Sunset model. It can't be excused by saying all the pictures of the real train are off due to "lighting conditions."

There's that old story of a marching band, and there's one guy who's out of step, and he can't understand why the whole band is out of step except him.  

Oh well, it's hard to find the right colors (except in HO). The light green on my K-Line NCL isn't quite right, either.

Stunning train at a great price! If someone wants a close to perfect train maybe they can pull off a brass import for say 20-30k a set. Easy peasy!

It wouldn't cost the manufacturers any more to use the right color paints. 

That's only if you assume there is ONE right color

@breezinup posted:

It wouldn't cost the manufacturers any more to use the right color paints. 

No hard feelings, but I'll trust Scott Mann's research.

I just opened up my set of GGD NCL cars and must whole-heartedly endorse Railthunder’s assessment that these are gorgeous cars.  The light green that has been commented on is actually much less intense than Railthunder’s photos appear to show.  As he says, in natural light, it looks dead-on to the Loewy NP light green that I’m familiar with.  I don’t have a good camera or the professionally expert photographic skills of Santiago to provide the kind of studio shots that would do these cars justice, so I’m afraid I’m unable to provide any pictures myself.  But in my estimation, the GGD NCL paint job is extremely faithful to the original Loewy scheme. 

The light green on the GGD cars matches the light green on a couple of factory-painted Railway Classics brass HO NP baggage/water-baggage cars currently pictured on brasstrains.com, as well as the brass HO heavyweight in the Loewy scheme that Breezinup posted above.  And FWIW, as a point of reference that many Forum members may be able to visualize more readily, the paint colors (both light and dark greens) on the GGD cars are an almost exact match of those on the K-Line NCL cars.  I have that set as well and its actually astonishing how closely the paint schemes on the two sets match up, not just in color shade but also in finish.  Which is great, because I can now mix in a couple of the K-line NCL cars, which, despite their non-prototypical lapses, are very good looking scale-length cars.  I’m sure the NCL can always use another baggage car or sleeper.

RTR Mark

Breezinup,

I work for Sunset Models and Golden Gate Depot. We always do the best we can to get the colors correct on our projects. Can we count on you to make sure we have the correct colors going forward? This is not written with any sarcasm, just a desire to have absolute fidelity. Let us know if we can count on you to assist.

Let me also say that one of our passenger sets done a while ago had one of the colors quite incorrect, and this was after a very reliable resource said to do that shade of xxxxxx.

I have a color moving picture of the Pennsylvania Railroad in Baltimore with a number of passenger / head end cars with one of the B60 cars being bright red, This was taken by my grandfather and me in about 1949 -'50. All of the other PRR cars in the photo are tuscan of which there are a number of shades. There is an E6 and a K4 doubleheaded going to Orangeville for servicing after having pulled a train down from Harrisburg.

All this thread has done is make me wish I had ordered these beautiful cars. I was on the fence about it, but let it go by. My mistake.

Breezinup - look at the main picture of the train you posted. There are three shades of the light green, just in that pic - one on the lead unit, a second on the trailing units, and a third on the cars. Plus, the colors on the hillside don't look at all accurate to me - unless they've been emptying the toilets along that stretch of track!

I wouldn't want to have that job, nailing the colors. To me it looks like it's pretty darn good.

David

Look at that beautiful, right Pullman green!

I finally had some time after work today to photograph these outside in natural light with my I-Phone.  Extreme safety precautions were taken in the photographs i.e. my german shepherd was kept inside!  Here is every car of the set.  I'm thrilled with both the cars and the color.  Now for a baked potato for supper!  

Howard

Yes, beautiful.

@rheil posted:

Breezinup,

I work for Sunset Models and Golden Gate Depot. We always do the best we can to get the colors correct on our projects. Can we count on you to make sure we have the correct colors going forward? This is not written with any sarcasm, just a desire to have absolute fidelity. Let us know if we can count on you to assist.

Let me also say that one of our passenger sets done a while ago had one of the colors quite incorrect, and this was after a very reliable resource said to do that shade of xxxxxx.

You don't need me.   There are lots of better resources. In this case, see the Northern Pacific Railroad Historical Association. Regardless, no question it's an extraordinarily difficult job trying to coordinate production with a company located thousands of miles away, in the case in the Far East, not to mention with a country having a completely different language and culture.

It might be noted that certain other manufacturers have some occasional color issues, and folks have no problem pointing it out, agreeing on it, and being critical of them (hopefully in a positive way) for producing the item in that way. It is a testament to the hallowed ground Sunset and Golden Gate occupy that folks seem to object strenuously to any suggestion that a color might be off on one of their products. Nonetheless, as you point out, occasionally it happens. That's completely understandable. 

Everyone appreciates the job Sunset and Golden Gate do. Your products greatly enrich the hobby. (Incidentally, I presently have an engine on order with you folks, and look forward to having it!) I think everyone sincerely hopes Sunset and GGD "live long and prosper."

Resources for NP Modelers, Special Projects

Varied resources for modelers of the Northern Pacific. 

@rheil posted:

Breezinup,

I work for Sunset Models and Golden Gate Depot.

I raised this question with Scott regarding the Lewis and Clark add-on car.  In the NP literature, these cars are identified as "Traveller's Rest," however, the cars themselves, as produced by the firm, spell it "Travellers Rest," without the apostrophe.

Were there period photographs of the prototype without the apostrophe?  I'm aware of a restoration that spells it without the apostrophe, but haven't seen a period photo.

Just curious.

These cars look fabulous in all regards for sure. Really like the pics taken outdoors. Very nice indeed, enjoy your set for sure!!

I can't wait to get my set and extras cars next month! They look great. Next month I can afford to get them out of layaway. Then I will be working on the Rio Grande L105 - Scott keeps me broke - But I love it!