Sunsets version of the pennsy T1

The Sunset T1 is a good looking and solid running model.  My first O scale T1 was by NJCB.  It had two major short comings:

• Weak gearboxes (I replaced them with ones from NWSL),
• A tender that was about 2 scale ft longer than prototype

I'd recommend avoiding it in favor of the Sunset model.

 I've been running the Sunset Third Rail T1 for perhaps 15 years - initially on DC and later under DCC  (NCE D408SR decoder).   I added weight in the boiler so that it now can pull  a 12 car passenger train up my 2.2% Horseshoe Curve grade.  As delivered the locomotive had the center 2 drivers blind.  Sunset brought in spare replacement flanged driver sets and mine is so equipped.  I don't recall if they came packed in the box with the T1 or if I ordered them separately from Scott.    Fully flanged on its rigid wheelbase the Sunset T1 easily negotiates 54" curves.  Later this year I plan to install a DCC sound decoder in the model.   

If you wanted to "cheap out" the Williams version is nice.  We two-railed maybe ten of them, and still have (very expensive) drivers for another.  I am quite happy with mine.  No portholes, although that took an afternoon of work and a pair of air pumps.

bob2 posted:

 No portholes, although that took an afternoon of work and a pair of air pumps.

Bob,  I always sort of liked the "Buick" look. Goes right along with the rest of the styling! LOL

Simon

Have any folks seen the Sunnyside Shops version of the T1?   Didn't care for the T1 until I saw that model some 40 years ago. Am a believer - full throated - following that experience !  Alas, have no pics.

I briefly saw a Sunnyside Shops model of T1a 5547 (Walschaerts valve gear) in a acquaintances home just before he died - I've not seen a Sunnyside T1 since.  Around the time they were imported I heard comments at a PRRT&HS meet that some of the bodywork was done in other than brass.  I do not know if that was true or not, and from the model I was looking at I couldn't see any flaws.  It would be interesting to know how many Sunnyside T1's were imported and how well they run.  The Sunnyside T1's are perhaps the rarest imported O scale PRR steam locomotive models ever made.   Sunnyside also imported brass models of PRR N5c cabin cars and P85 coaches. Sometime after the T1 project Sunnyside contracted with a Japanese builder to do PRR H9s and H10s 2-8-0's.  The project was well along and for reasons unknown to me the project died.  Years later many of the lost wax castings (stacks, headlights, markers, etc) and body parts (cabs, tender sides) created for the project were brought into the country and sold at PRRT&HS and Strasburg meets by a Philadelphia area O scaler.  Several of my PRR locomotives have been upgraded with Sunnyside H9/10 headlights, bells, and other very fine castings.

I have seen at least two Sunnyside T1's for sale at Strasburg along with a number of parts for the H9/10 consolidations. The fellow who has the consolidation parts still goes to Strasburg and sells the parts as well as selling them at the PRRT&HS conventions. I have also seen the Sunnyside PRR cabin car for sale at Strasburg.

At one point I owned 4 of the Sunnyside P85br coaches but sold them all when Golden Gate Depot came out with theirs. While the Golden Gate ones do not have the correct underbody details as the Sunnyside ones do I usually (always) run my trains right side up so it doesn't really matter to me at half the price.

http://www.christies.com/lotfi...846267-details.aspx/

Found this listing on the internet from Christie's auction house, for a Sunnyside T1 - - - could not find anything else.  These were really sweet models, and for the time, blew the cab doors off any other O Scale locomotive offering.

This is a Williams.  It is probably a tenth the cost, and a quarter as worthy.  This one has lost its Buick look, has been 2-railed, and painted with Scale Coat and Future Floor Wax:

Interesting thread regarding the PRR T1's.  I too have owned an unpainted brass version of the NJCB PRR T1 with the Buick portals for many many years. Always assumed the CB version had considerably more detail than the more recent Sunset versions especially around the firebox and the enclosed cab interior. Although its been a display piece in my brass collection since the mid 1980's I wouldn't part with it - period.  I agree with others that the Sunnyside version was truly outstanding for its time or any time - simply beautiful!

Just noticed this pop up on the BAY 

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/183000109095?ul_noapp=true  

It is a T1 with portholes made or inported by West Orland Loco & Car Works.

FWIW, here are Pics of a Three Rail Williams Brass PRR T1:

Sleuths on another forum found that Orland T1 sold for $433 in December, and is now at two grand.  Way to go!

I note that the Williams T1 was on sale at $499, a price I considered a bargain at the time.  Bet you could get one today for $300.  It is not a highly sophisticated model, and maybe not 100% accurate, but it is sturdy and runs like the wind.

You could buy your wife a nice trinket with the remaining $2700?

I had a NJ Custom Brass PRR T-1 and made the mistake of showing it to my friend ET (Tom) Harley the pennsy's last chief mechanical office. After he took it "apart" I was more than happy to sell it. I then purchased a Sunnyside when they were released and Tom thought the world of it. I will post some pics later it is a fantastic model . Tom also wrote the NJCB book on the PRR Q locomotives.

Bob2 I would rather have an extremely accurate and detailed model that the bare bones williams , my personal preference.

Imho , that west Orland PRR T1 look too "home made" by an amateur good luck to the seller to come across an O scale collector/ historian that will pay that price. I can't even sell my Lionel Legacy SD38 for below the bto price!

That scratch built T1 up for auction  was probably built before commercial T1 models became available in the late 1970's.  Unless one is a doorstop collector, or the great grandson of the original builder it's value is nil.  From a prototype modeler's point of view - the good old days weren't always so good. 

I should add to my comments on the NJCB T1 that one issue that detracts from its look were oversize rivet detail on the skirting.  Before painting and lettering mine I attempted to mitigate the issue buy sanding them down slightly using emery paper. 

If one ever has the need to stripe and letter a PRR T1 try to find a CDS's T1 dry transfer set - they made made doing the tender a piece of cake.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

FWIW, here are Pics of a Three Rail Williams Brass PRR T1:

Have always liked this Williams model but the amount of 'air' beneath the boiler was a spoiler for me - seems a massive brut like this would have little or none to distract from it's massiveness!

Please note that when reposting someone else's multiple photos, I deleted the ones that were not pertinite to the subject of discussion. :-)

Think of Williams brass as blank canvasses upon which to lavish your super-detailing skills.

In other words..I have a 3rd Rail T-1. Is it the same, or different from, the Sunset version?

That scratch built T1 up for auction  was probably built before commercial T1 models became available in the late 1970's.  Unless one is a doorstop collector, or the great grandson of the original builder it's value is nil.  From a prototype modeler's point of view - the good old days weren't always so good. 

I should add to my comments on the NJCB T1 that one issue that detracts from its look were oversize rivet detail on the skirting.  Before painting and lettering mine I attempted to mitigate the issue buy sanding them down slightly using emery paper. 

If one ever has the need to stripe and letter a PRR T1 try to find a CDS's T1 dry transfer set - they made made doing the tender a piece of cake.

Rex - In this case the T1 we are posting about was imported under the "Sunset 3rd Rail" brand - for both 2 and 3 rail versions.  I'm a big supporter of Scott's product line, but it still bothers me a little to see a 3rd Rail reference on what are very nicely  scaled and detailed 2 rail models.  The last O scale 2 rail models that Scott (or his dad Mort)  imported under the Sunset brand may have been the unpainted  I1sa's.  The locomotives and tenders came in separate  boxes.  Back then we were able to order separate tenders and I purchase several to replace the under length welded 16 wheel tenders behind two Westside J1 2-10-4's.  A later run of painted 3 rail I1s' came in under the Sunset 3rd Rail brand and were packaged in one box.  There was a high degree of commonality between the Sunset I1 and the Sunset 3rd Rail I1 - but the 2 rail  versions had slightly more detail.

I had one of the I1s - unpainted.  I may have bought it from Mort face to face - it had been smunched in shipping.  Easy fix.  Sold it (I have a scratch I1).

Third rail produces really good products.  Dollar for dollar they can ot be beat.  There are compromises - often inconsequential, like a missing tail beam - but for most of us they do just fine.

It is a special modeler who will want the exquisite detail of a $3000 locomotive.  It is good we have such folks, because they drive the top end market, and true works of art are the result.  I sometimes feel that I have gone overboard by just having models worth more than a hundred bucks.  I look at my collection and think: "It is a good thing I do not care much if my friends think I is nuts!"

Keystoned Ed posted:

  The last O scale 2 rail models that Scott (or his dad Mort)  imported under the Sunset brand may have been the unpainted  I1sa's.  The locomotives and tenders came in separate  boxes. 

As you are aware Ed but some may not be, the boxes were labeled HO even though there was an O scale locomotive and tender in them.