Super Chuffer II DC?

Since it regulates 5V DC and doesn't use TRIACS for outputs I don't see why not.

However, given the typical usage in a TMCC loco using a control board with TRIACs, you might worry about the rest of the total train "system" of components.

FWIW, my bench testing sometimes mid mod is using a 9V DC battery.

If you don't know or understand, the LCRU, LCRU2, R2LC, R4LC all use TRIACs for ouputs (Lights, Smoke, Couplers). They need the zero crossing of AC to turn off once "fired".  

So example, an electrocoupler coil, if controlled by a TRIAC (example MAC97) on DC would get stuck on and burn up when the above TRIAC based control board is fed with DC.

In addition, the smoke regulators, and also Railsounds 3.0 power board will not work on DC.

I'm sure there are more, those are just a short list of definite problem ones I am aware of.

I nearly destroyed my Legacy Crane car by just such a situation when I first started into the hobby in 2018 using a DC 72 Watt Lionchief DC supply. I fired the coupler and a bit later total meltdown because it was stuck on. Same thing for outriggers, luckily I did not fire them.

@BobbyDing posted:

Can the SCII enhancement board be run on 15VDC? 15VDC going in place of the center rail puckup and ground to the wheels?

Thank!

Bobby

To answer the original question, it would work fine on DC, anything above about 8 volts.  As Vernon states, a lot of the other TMCC stuff might have a problem.  I don't know about the headlight Rule-17 feature, I'd have to know what voltages feed your lighting from the locomotive boards.

Thank you gentlemen. I'm actually looking at using it on an experiment with a dcc decoder. Thus the DC. No AC involved. I put the question here because tmcc is where the SCII is typically used. But "triacs" did peak my interest. I used to work on lighting equipment many years ago. I've replaced dozens of triacs and a few SSR's when they became available. This was in the early days before dmx. Triacs tyically blow shorted if I remember correctly. And having them switch off at zero crossover...... It brings back memories. These were 2400 and 3600 watt parts though. I had never given any thought that tmcc would make use of triacs also. Makes perfect sense. Could somebody supply a brief description of LCRU, LCRU2, R2LC and R4LC? I know there is a cruise board, radio board, sound board. But I don't know which is which.

Thank you,

Bobby

The Super-Chuffer II doesn't know if it's running TMCC or conventional.  As long as you have a chuff input (0 to 5V logic signal), it's happy.  The lighting input can be up to 12VDC, it just drives an optical sensor.  You could use the matching Chuff-Generator to generate the chuffs if you don't have a source from the DCC board.

Thanks John. I have your chuff gen also. It's in the plan. The only immediate issue I see is that I think the SC/CG pulses low to trigger a chuff and the decoder takes a ground to 12V signal to trigger the chuff. I'm not great with electronics, but was thinking of having the SC/CG feed a 4n25 optical isolater with a 10k pullup resister to 12V on the decoder side. I'm thinking this could invert the pulse and at the same time somewhat isolate the two systems (just in case). Parts should be here soon, so I thought it a good time to inquire about the SCII on DC.

Thanks so much!

Bobby

@BobbyDing posted:

Could somebody supply a brief description of LCRU, LCRU2, R2LC and R4LC? I know there is a cruise board, radio board, sound board. But I don't know which is which.

In order of first manufactured

roughly 1995- intro of TMCC- LCRU- noted by hard wired main power and motor connections, also processor in a socket. TMCC receiver, with 4 outputs (MAC97 TRIACS) smoke, lights, and couplers, along with AC drive motor circuitry. Serial data line shared with program/run switch.  These also had a few wire jumper data lines to set "type" .  Details in this topic https://ogrforum.com/...c/152336474728041000

Unsure of date- LCRU2- second generation of LCRU, connectors for all inputs and outputs. 5 outputs, however, in some series of this, smoke is the larger size TRIAC. https://ogrforum.com/...2#149802439200534392

Modular TMCC- R2LC (also these have a processor and firmware code) C08. That C0X number typically is 6, 7, or 8. C08 is universal. C06 was early and has a tuning slug for the TMCC RF, C07 is special and used in C420s for reversed polarity on light outputs for LEDs. Again, in general C08 is the most common and runs most anything TMCC, the noted exception is specifically C420 engines were known to have LEDs, and thus a C07 is desired, or else you have to reverse the LED polarity. Again, notice the sticker on the processor with the C code designation.

As you can see, all of these use TRIACs (MAC97s) and larger ones like 2N6075BG, and then the motor driver section also uses TRIACs (TO 220 sized).

Again, this is not all of them, that could be a book and still not cover it all.

Last, R4LC is mostly just the next revision of R2LC. The main difference was that the PIC microprocessor was the next model. ERR sells and uses R4LC but with C08 code making identical to the typical R2LC C08. Lionel used R4LC in early Legacy modular engines, and they would have higher C codes, I think 11, 12, 13?

@BobbyDing posted:

Thanks John. I have your chuff gen also. It's in the plan. The only immediate issue I see is that I think the SC/CG pulses low to trigger a chuff and the decoder takes a ground to 12V signal to trigger the chuff. I'm not great with electronics, but was thinking of having the SC/CG feed a 4n25 optical isolater with a 10k pullup resister to 12V on the decoder side. I'm thinking this could invert the pulse and at the same time somewhat isolate the two systems (just in case). Parts should be here soon, so I thought it a good time to inquire about the SCII on DC.

Isolation is never a bad idea, that sounds like it should work. FWIW, the Chuff-Generator has an open drain FET to trigger the chuff, so the opto will drop right in there.

Thank you gentlemen!

Which decoder are you using? I ask because the Tsunami2 I'm using has no chuff output, it using BEMF to sync the chuff to the wheel rotation.

I'm in the middle of this exact project on a Williams steamer, had a setback when my cheap iron tip broke down while I was attaching the sensor to the chuff generator and it destroyed the resistor next to the sensor. My Hakko from amazon should be here tomorrow and the new chuff generator from Henning's should be here next week.

@Darrell posted:

Which decoder are you using? I ask because the Tsunami2 I'm using has no chuff output, it using BEMF to sync the chuff to the wheel rotation.

I'm in the middle of this exact project on a Williams steamer, had a setback when my cheap iron tip broke down while I was attaching the sensor to the chuff generator and it destroyed the resistor next to the sensor. My Hakko from amazon should be here tomorrow and the new chuff generator from Henning's should be here next week.

He stated he was using the Chuff-Generator to generate the chuff and putting it on an input of the decoder.  Back-EMF is not a very reliable way to get accurate synchronized chuffing.

@Darrell, I will DM you the card info. Since this is not the dcc forum I hesitate to get take the thread down that path. Also right now it's a fragmented WIP. If the project is successful I will post a thread about it in the dcc forum to share what I've learned.

Bobby

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

He stated he was using the Chuff-Generator to generate the chuff and putting it on an input of the decoder.  Back-EMF is not a very reliable way to get accurate synchronized chuffing.

I know, that's why I asked which decoder he was using. I have only tried Tsunami2 so far and they do not have a chuff input or output signal. They just use BEMF to generate the chuff sound. Since I'm new to DCC I'm still learning how to adapt it all to 3 rail. I think it will be a challenge to say the least for me to get the smoke and sound to stay in sync.

@Darrell posted:

Since I'm new to DCC I'm still learning how to adapt it all to 3 rail. I think it will be a challenge to say the least for me to get the smoke and sound to stay in sync.

Well, you got me there, I suspect I know even less about DCC than you do!   Quite frankly, it's been a somewhat conscious effort on my part not to get immersed in yet another control system.  I have my hands full keeping up with the mainstream 3-rail command systems.

@gunrunnerjohn, I don't have a proper ruler for this. Do you remember what the distance between the pins are for the SCII? I need to see it digikey has screw type terminals that could be soldered onto the board. Testing will require some back and forth soldering (test setup and actual loco), and I'd very much prefer to solder only once on that board.

Thanks!

Bobby

The spacing of the pins is .1", 2.54mm.  Take not of the width of any terminal block as there isn't a lot of clearance at the back of the row of wire connections.

@gunrunnerjohn, in the diagram for installing the smoke intensty relay you feed the SC "smoke power in" from before the dropping diodes. Would this still work if that signal was taken from after the dropping diodes? Right now I'm looking at using 12V for the smoke voltage, dropping to 9.9V after the diode drop.

Bobby

The smoke power in should recognize any AC or DC signal of more than about 2-3 volts as smoke active.  That voltage is referenced to track common, keep that in mind.  I consider "track common" to be what's on pin-2 of the Super-Chuffer.

Thx