Switch from Fastrack (temp) to Atlas (perm)?

Lionel tubular track? Your response was certainly within the scope of the advice I am seeking, so I'm not going to "Dump" on you. I'm going to thank you for your input!

Yep...black tie O Gauge tubular with Ross switches. 

You guys keep talking about Atlas track issues.  I might be asking something dumb and obvious but I just put Gargraves on my new upper loop.  Gargraves is tubular and it is not like the failing Atlas track is it?  I mean, it does have a black "phantom" center rail so that is why I was getting concerned as it is not too late for me to switch to another rail since i haven't permanantly laid the track yet!   

Have you considered Ross track and switches? My layout uses both and I am very pleased with both the operational aspects as well as the electrical conductivity. Ross also has a proprietary roadbed for their track and switches. Atlas does as well.

 

A

Nobody really suggested to go all Ross as of yet, so it's a valid consideration. How well does it work with DCS, and how about derailing over the switches (when approaching from the wrong end and the switch is on the other side)?

AghrMatt I am thinking of tearing my scaletrax out,I will take a big hit.

But the switches are a joke and I don't like the way they mate up.

Now the new Atlas when did it come out? And I would go with Ross Switches and or track and/or Atlas Track.How doe the premade curves fit together?

How does Atlas track mate up to the Ross switches?

Could you post a few pics please.

 

Thank You. 

All I have ever used is Fastrack. When I bought my first starter set from MTH the LHS swapped out the MTH track to Fastrack for me.

 

Except for the way I laid it (no noise barrier) I have been extremely pleased. I have about $700 dollars in it now, too much of an investment to change. And I second what Lee said, the switches ARE bullet proof.

DaveR,
    The only Atlas track I recommend is their new track that is similar to FasTrack.
I use none of the other Atlas track or their switches.  DCS works great with Lionel FasTrack or conventional tubular and as long as you use post WWII trains, the running of Fastrack or tubular in and out of Ross's Tin Plate Switches, should be a bullet proof engineering package.  Jim Sutters conventional tubular in his store was fantastic also, he used the old Lionel switches. I use the Lionel transition track, and the old Lionel 711 type swithces for my big Tin Plate trains with the FasTrack, the draw back is the old swithces draw massive power when in use, the new Ross Tin Plate switches are modern low voltage.  As much as I like Atlas, I do not recommend their track or swithces, just way to many problems for continuous running.  Now the newer Atlas track has made some engineering changes and it does work better, however to me it's still not bulllet proof.  I recommend FasTrack or Conventional tubular if you want minimal problems.
PCRR/Dave

FasTrack & old Lionel 711 type Switches for bullet proof DCS train running, add the new Ross Tin Plate Swithes for low voltage if you choose.

Our FT DCS Layout was up and ran great for over 10 years.


Jim Sutters Conventional Tubular DCS Layout was up for a long long time also.

Dave R,

     Tell ya what, when you are ready to sell your FasTrack, let me know, give me a good deal and I will purchase everything but the switches.

PCRR/Dave

I have lots of fastrack and it's in a somewhat dirty environment and yes it gets dirty. But I don't spend much time cleaning it. I may clean a few spots where the trains have problems but after running for a few min the trains start running smoothly again.
I don't think fastrack gets any dirtier than any other track.

The only reason I would get rid of my fastrack is to lower the noise.  Otherwise it works great, I have DCS.  It gets dirty for the following reasons.  #1. My kids and others I let run my trains over fill the smoke units on my PS2s.  #2.  Too much lubrication on the rolling stock and engines.  

 

It it is easy to plan, I just put it on the table and play around with different arrangements till it makes sense, you can run trains before it is screwed down.

 

I am am getting close to tearing down my layout and I am planning the next one, I will probably stay with fastrack. Mainly because the switches are so good.  I run DCS so the noise is not as bad as when I run 027 conventional on the track, I'll figure out a way to cut the noise a little next time.

Do yourself a favor...there is only one way to go.

Gargraves track and Ross switches.

End of story....finite....period....done.

I learned that the hard way, as I know for a fact, all of my RealTrax and Fastrack will go bad over the next few years.

Dave:

Something to consider:

I had a full 11' X 23' Figure 8 in the basement at the old house.

Made of RealTrax which is similar to Fastrack in noise level but with different rails.

The New layout will be Scaletrax (with a couple Ross switches) for several reasons. (Also has limitations)

I kept ALL the old track for a simple reason:

I use it for the Christmas Layout and other occasional temporary layouts.

For a simple seasonal layout the Fastrack is a very good choice.

 

If you want to know more about Scaletrax, email me or look at toytrainsontracks.com They sell videos and have clips on the website.

I have Atlas track,  and have had good success by dropping power lines every three feet or so.  The switches, while they look nice don't always throw, which is a problem.  If I were to do it over, I would use Ross Switches.

 

For the road bed, I used Track-Bed from woodland scenics.  its very easy to install versus cork and much cheaper. 

 

I have to second what 'chipset' mentions about Fastrack! It is lousy for the cost of the track, gets dirty quickly and conducts electricity worse then tubular track.

I have been in O gauge for many years and tried some of the new products in O gauge, but roadbed built-in track just don't work for me.

 

Lee Fritz

I have had nothing but excellent results with my Fastrack.  It does not get dirty, (I clean it twice a year even if it does not need it), conducts well, switches are great, and I have decreased the sound very nicely.   I also have  a branch line using Atlas.  Both are good.   I decided to switch from Fastrack to Atlas a few years ago, but since everything is running well, I have not made the switch over, and may never do so.

I have been using Fas-Track and sometimes tubular and it works great.

 

I like the switches except when I run my WBB GG-1's; the front trucks always derail!!

 

As for cleaning I use SUPER QCG(Quick Clean Guns) a little on a scotch brite pad followed by a cotton cloth. That stuff is awesome! I use it on my road bicycles and of course my guns.

 

Look them up www.superquickcleanguns.com

I like Fastrack it goes up quick. Because of the roadbed indentations you can use a diluted paint wash wipe it off and it looks acceptably good from a distance.

I'm using Atlas, but just curious how you decreased the sound of the Fastrack?  I like Fastrack, but sound was a deal breaker for me and led me to find Atlas, which I am glad I found.

Atlas looks nice. But, the deal breaker for me was that PW Lionel trains did not run well on the brown tie track. So, I switched to the black tie track. Atlas eventually discontinued it,  but even then the selection was somewhat limited. So, I now use Fast track and a Super "O" display layout on a peninsula.

I have had the same positive experiences with Atlas as sited by several. We have used it since our first layout in 2002 without excessive measures. We are building our fourth layout now, and still using the original track for part of this layout. 

 

Nothing wrong with going Ross / Gargraves, just not where we started. Also look at Rich Battista's toytrainsontracks.com use of MTH ScaleTrack. 

Read all of the instructions included with the SWITCHES. Follow all of the instructions included with the SWITCHES. Failure to read and follow will result in reduced abilities.

 

Andrew

I also have Atlas O track and switches and it works for me.

Never had any problems with atlas track, I have dcs and legacy and

I'm with Norm on this one.  Although my two layouts both are equipped with FasTrack at the present time, I used Atlas track exclusively for several prior layouts built before I moved back to Ohio some six+ years ago.  Never really had any significant problems with the Atlas track using the dimpled joiners that they began offering a short time after originally releasing the track with flat joiners.  

 

Sometime in the coming year I'll be swapping the FasTrack for a GarGraves track and Ross switch combo.  I have no real complaints about FasTrack, but just want to give a more realistic look to the track work on my main layout.  FasTrack will remain in place on the tinplate layout.

 

I did remove the blackening from the very top of the center rail on the Atlas track I used, but that was more a matter of something I've routinely done with all track that has a blackened center rail (RealTrax, GarGraves, earliest FasTrack, etc.).

 

At the present time, I have two circles of GarGraves track mounted to the platform under my Christmas tree.  I did not removed the blackening on the center rails and have not experienced any operational problems with the black intact.

 

The choice of a track system is always a highly personal one.  There is no "one size fits all" system out there because all will perform well depending on what the layout builder prefers from an aesthetic perspective and how well he or she plans for and installs the track.

I use Atlas on my layout with few problems. It is quiet on WS foam, a big plus. It looks, to me, the most realistic of the current track offerings. Unlike some I maintain the top black of the center rail with a product called neolube. All my switches use their non-derail board with atlas #57 controllers.

 

this thread is not unlike the old Ford vs Chevy dicussion, of course everyone now knows that Ford is the best.

 

Fred

 

 

One more piece of advice - buy RR Track and get the hirail library so you can try out the different track systems' geometries in your available layout space. This will help you get a feel for ow these track systems go together. You might be pleasantly surprised to find out how much engineering effort is put into these track systems.

 

I have to agree with Allen Miller about proper planning, especially with Fastrack. You must go with an established layout plan or guide as it will get frustrating to make your own design with Fastrack.

The other thing that I have noticed with Fastrack, could be where I live(West Palm Beach FL), but it got very dirty on me very quickly. Bought the Fastrack new at Target and used at a train show and both did the same thing, so it could be a humidity problem in my area. I have my trains in an upstairs room(actually an upstairs bedroom) on the second floor, not an attic but a fully finished room with a regular roof, and fully air conditioned.

Other types of track did not get as dirty in the same room, so I don't know what it is with my use of Fastrack.

 

Lee Fritz

Gentlemen,

    Each track has it's good and bad points, however some track looks very realistic and if you are into realism and want to build with track that must be soldered together in some manner go for it.  If you want to run all different kinds of trains and rolling stock

on a toy train type set up, reread my prior post.   Maybe it's where we live here in Pa,

but FasTrack and Real Trax don't get any dirtier any faster, than any other kind of track.  IMO Atlas has only one good kind of track, their newer track that is similar to FasTrack.  It does work well with all kinds of different engines and rolling stock.

Now Frank's layout at the Iron Horse was Gargraves and for the most part did run all the trains, except for the switches, even the manual Gargraves switches had problems with my original & repro Tin Plate trains.  The smaller 2600 series Tin Plate did run very well on it however.   If I just ran modern trains, Atlas track with Ross Tin Plate switches would be fine, however I love my big old Tin Plate Trains, so I run FasTrack & Conventional Tubular and old 711 type Lionel switches with DCS. I do not intend to limit the engines and rolling stock I own because my track and switches will not handle them.  Each to his own but IMO engineering in this manner runs all my trains, in my toy train world.

PCRR/Dave 

 

Test running the New DCS 263E Tin Plate Engine & 12 wheel Tender on Frank's

office Gargraves layout, the Gargraves switches would not accommodate the 12 wheel

tender on a repeat running basis, unless the train was run at very low speeds.

Dave R,

   Got to tell ya I have lots of FasTrack and have never had a bad piece of it,

however it is my understanding that one of the runs of FasTrack did have a problem, if all the newer FasTrack has problems I am unaware of it.

I do not own any of it, and hope I never do.  Got to admit you have a point about the planning, most average runners are going to need a planning system, if they run FasTrack, myself I build custom layouts and insert different tubular track where needed, cutting where required, adding lighted lock ons as magic lights for DCS and

building what ever I need to engineer the layout in the given space available.  This years Christmas layout has been up for almost a month now, have not cleaned the FasTrack or RealTrax ovals yet.  The layout is in the formal living room, my bigger layout was in the game room/office and even with 6 dogs running around it all the time, I never had problems with the trains running correctly on the some what dusty FasTrack which was up for over 10 years, there was a lot more than just a simple oval to that particular FasTrack layout.  My experience down thru the years with FasTrack and yours just does not match up.

PCRR/Dave

 

Merry Christmas

 

In reply to rtr12:

There have been a number of good discussions and ideas regarding Fastrack and sound.  What I ended-up doing for my layout is three-fold, and resulted in track as quiet as Atlas solid 3-rail (my comparison):

1.  I installed foam "sill seal" from hardware stores under each section of track, glued in with a hot glue gun.  Was easy to do, I trimmed pieces with regular scissors.  Perhaps 4 hours of work for the entire 6' X 12' double-track layout.

2.  I installed the track on cork roadbed, creating a stepped-roadbed look.  I also used the cork roadbed to superelevate:  I used HO on the outside curve roadbed edge, and N on the inside curve roadbed edge.   Make for a nice look to my eyes. 

 

After 1 and 2, this third step did not add much, as 1 and 2 took care of the sound.

3.  My table-top is sound-deadening ceiling tiles, on a lattice of 1X4s laid flat.  

 

A subjective evaluation of the effectiveness might be to consider the MRC AC Sounders, which some find to be too quiet on their layouts.   They are plenty loud on my layout (after programming with the remote).   -Ken

I have to agree with Norm, Lee, and Allan.  I think most people fail to recognize that each track system is different and has to be handled as such.

 

Their are certain methods and ways in which each system should be mated, installed, and maintained and there is no one size fits all solution.  If any of the systems were as bad as many state, they wouldn't be used and would disappear from the market place.

 

As for the DCS part, buy Barry's book and follow his instructions for flawless DCS wiring and operation.

With all due respect to the opinions of others I would have to agree with Norm. Atlas is not a turn-key track. It needs a nice road bed (cork IMO), a solid base and needs to be screwed down! After that, plan on lots of drops. Atlas switch machines work -- sort of -- but I use Z Stuff DZ-1000's.

 

All that said I run conventional for now and my layout is very small. Other than the look of Atlas which I much prefer to Fastrack and Realtrax the BIG benefit for me is sound. I really love the quiet sound of Atlas on cork. Even the engine rollers add character to the sound. With the high quality wheel sets that come with MTH Premier and Lionel Vision line rolling stock you can hear the smallest sound details from PS2 and PS3 engines.

 

In the end, people can get relate their own experiences but no one track is right for everyone.

 

S

For those strongly suggesting Gargraves track & Ross Switches, I'm keeping an open mind over here.

Thanks, I am going to save this info for possible future use. I had been told previously by a few others to put some type of foam or cotton or other sound deadening material under the Fastrack. At least now I know it works, at least your method.

 

I'm too heavily invested in Atlas to switch now (just got 4 turnouts & some anti-derail boards this morning at my LHS), but may try it someday for a temp layout or something as I really do like the Fastrack. I also really like the Atlas track.

 

Thanks again for explaining how you installed the Fastrack.

Dave,

 

My experience:

 

Built my first O-Gauge layout with FasTrack about five years ago, and loved it. It was 7-ft x 20-ft. roughly. I knew I would tear it down in a year or so, so it was my O-Gauge practice layout after many year sin HO.

 

Started building my present (about 33 x 38) layout (link, below) in Feb 2011. It has about 900 feet of Atlas track, 45 Atlas turnouts, and 12 Ross turnouts.

 

I used Atlas joiners throughout and exclusively to join the track sections, did not attempt to remove the black from the center rail, very seldom clean the track, and I have no problems. Period. 

 

I have had derailing and not fully thrown points issues with the Ross switches, and if I had to do it over again, I would use all Atlas. The only issue with the Atlas has been the notorious jumper under the turnouts. Of the 45 Atlas turnouts I have, I have had to replace or fix six of these jumpers. Other than that, everything runs fine, and I run DCS and Legacy/TMCC - no conventional.

 

Good luck!

 

Alex

Great topic.  I am not trying to hijack this thread, but have a question about Atlas track that I feel needs to be considered related to Atlas track.

 

I have a question for all of you that have had good experience with the Atlas track - Do you have any issues with the electrical contact shoes on the lionel operating cars?

 

I have read several discussions where the shoes on the operating cars catch going through the turnouts creating derailments and other issues.

 

I was all set to with Atlas track until I read this.

 

Also, cutting and hot gluing cork roadbed into the fastrack eliminates the noise issue and makes it almost as quiet as the large club layout I recently visited that

uses Atlas track - an idea I picked up from forum member Swafford.

 

Thanks,

 

Bruce

 

Dave R,

    Now that you have explained how your initial FT purchase of defective track influenced your opinion of the track, I fully understand.  If you can, I would return all that defective track. I would go directly to Lionel with the defective FasTrack problem, and explain what happened, ask them to replace all your track and see what they do.

Now if you purchased that particular FT used you are just plain out of luck.  Then you just get rid of the track, to me it's garbage anyway.

 

PCRR/Dave   

Since this thread has popped up again I just read back through the whole thing. It doesn't appear that Dave ever articulated his desired 'look' for the finished layout. Dave, are you going to a realistic 'scale-like' appearance (am guessing that your choice of Atlas would indicate this)?

 

If realistic then Atlas, ScaleTrax, or Gargraves/Ross is the obvious choice.

 

The overall appearance of the layout is a major consideration to the choice of track systems I would think...

Dave,

   Lee gave you a very good assessment of what actually happened to him when he left FasTrack and purchased Atlas.  Now that I have tested the FasTrack 072 WYE Command Control switches with my Tin Plate trains, I will keep my FasTrack thank you very much.  Zero problems, plug, program and play type situation auto derail & all, and everyone of my different trains runs perfectly, I love the FasTrack even more, wish Lionel engineering would not have screwed up the 031 engineering design, so it does not run inside the 036 FasTrack, I must use 031 RealTrax for the inside oval.

PCRR/Dave