TCA Amnesty Letters

The dues increase was $15.00. The $50.00 dues per year is more then reasonable. Back in the 80's and 90's I belonged to a car club and the dues then were $75.00 then. 

The angst over the $15 increase is beyond me. The one mistake the TCA made was not increasing it sooner. 

So come back and enjoy everything the TCA has to offer, it's a great organization. 

Not all left the TCA on purpose.  Some folks let their membership slip for one reason or another. The simple solution is not to rejoin if you're that opposed to the TCA.  At least this current leadership is making attempts to regain some of the membership through this and the online survey they did.  It takes small steps to start.

NMRA going through similar pains.  To be a member of regional club now you must join national.  Some folks choose to drop out altogether. 

I always enjoyed their advertisements.  Once eBay got going, it was a bit more cost effective to enjoy that.

The TCA is tone deaf to the reasons their membership is declining. We all understand members are dying off. Such is the reality of an "old white man's" hobby. However, they fail to comprehend that they cannot double their dues every time membership falls. The costs  are driving people away, both young and old. And I won't even touch on how they drive away younger members and children.

The dues are fifty dollars per year. Compared to the price of "O" gauge trains, that is not even measurable.

A print subscription to OGR is $35 per year. A OGR digital subscription is $30 per year. I don't think there is a discount for those who want both, but I could be mistaken.  I checked the prices on several other Model Train magazines and their prices are similar.

C W Burfle posted:

A print subscription to OGR is $35 per year. A OGR digital subscription is $30 per year. I don't think there is a discount for those who want both, but I could be mistaken.  I checked the prices on several other Model Train magazines and their prices are similar.

Currently we aren't able to discount a Print and Digital Package subscription, but that's coming very soon.

As to why the TCA losing members, I'll refrain from getting into that discussion.

Every few months the needle keeps skipping backwards on this record player.

It's very simple... if you don't want to renew, don't...  The rest of us don't necessarily share your "obvious" observations.  For some of us, there is value.  The continual whining from people about the extra $15 and starting new threads like this every few months really doesn't change anything.

Other organizations do the same thing with membership dues when it's just over the deadline.  Dues were in December for a certain professional organization I'm a member of, but they send me a reminder and indicate I can remain current if I pay by the end of the month(January).  Nothing unique to TCA for that part.

I belong to too many hobby clubs, some of which are more expensive than this, and out of which I get less, but I'd pay $100 for TCA membership (I am NOT encouraging or recommending this!) and I get my money's worth.   Others make their own choices.

Dave45681 posted:

Every few months the needle keeps skipping backwards on this record player.

It's very simple... if you don't want to renew, don't...  The rest of us don't necessarily share your "obvious" observations.  For some of us, there is value.

Other organizations do the same thing with membership dues when it's just over the deadline.  Dues were in December for a certain professional organization I'm a member of, but they send me a reminder and indicate I can remain current if I pay by the end of the month.  Nothing unique to TCA for that part.

 

Bingo!  Same old, same old.

The annual dues are $50. Geez, Louise, I pay MUCH more than that for several clubs and other "hobby" associations I belong to. Trains and otherwise.

Reminds me of the endless, angst-filled threads on train pricing.  You buy it or don't.  No biggie.

OGR Webmaster posted:

C W Burfle posted:

A print subscription to OGR is $35 per year. A OGR digital subscription is $30 per year. I don't think there is a discount for those who want both, but I could be mistaken.  I checked the prices on several other Model Train magazines and their prices are similar.

Currently we aren't able to discount a Print and Digital Package subscription, but that's coming very soon.

As to why the TCA losing members, I'll refrain from getting into that discussion.

I would love to see a package subscription option!

Dave45681 posted:

Every few months the needle keeps skipping backwards on this record player.

It's very simple... if you don't want to renew, don't...  The rest of us don't necessarily share your "obvious" observations.  For some of us, there is value.  The continual whining from people about the extra $15 and starting new threads like this every few months really doesn't change anything.

Other organizations do the same thing with membership dues when it's just over the deadline.  Dues were in December for a certain professional organization I'm a member of, but they send me a reminder and indicate I can remain current if I pay by the end of the month(January).  Nothing unique to TCA for that part.

 

Dave,

I don't disagree with you. There would be value for me also, if the TCA changed and became more inclusive of younger collectors and kids. I realize that the very mention of this topic is a nuisance for you. However, it is nonetheless a valid discussion which deserves attention. If it comes up so often, there must be an issue, right? Some of us want to fix the problems and affect change. Unfortunately, many in the TCA, having dispatched the women and children,  would prefer to don their best tuxedo, cling to a familiar railing, and ride their ill fated  club to the bottom of the sea. 

Ninety-six cents a week is too much? (and/or) You won't renew on policy principles?

OK, thanks for sharing.  

Sorry, I can't continue my scathing remarks...I need to register for my 60th York meet and go have fun.

There would be value for me also, if the TCA changed and became more inclusive of younger collectors and kids.

Let's separate the two.
What would you like to see the TCA do to be more inclusive of younger collectors?

This one really has me puzzled. Do you want to read more about Modern Era collecting? I don't think I fall into what you would consider the "younger" group any more, still I'd like to read more about the Modern Era. It takes members to write those articles. Some information is published in the TCA's online magazine.

I am seeing more and more operator oriented material in the quarterly magazine.

And what would you like to see the TCA do to be more attractive to children?

The TCA has it's kid's club. While my kids were members, they sent out an occasional newsletter.  No activities in my neck of the woods, but then again, there are no adult activities either.

The Eastern Division's York Train show is a division function, not a national TCA one. The York show has had a play area for children for quite some time now. I don't remember when it started. And I think the Eastern Division has even started to allow strollers in the halls again after banning them since sometime in the second half of the 1980's.

The number of display layouts at the York show has also been increasing.

GregR posted:

Dave,

I don't disagree with you. There would be value for me also, if the TCA changed and became more inclusive of younger collectors and kids. I realize that the very mention of this topic is a nuisance for you. However, it is nonetheless a valid discussion which deserves attention. If it comes up so often, there must be an issue, right? Some of us want to fix the problems and affect change. Unfortunately, many in the TCA, having dispatched the women and children,  would prefer to don their best tuxedo, cling to a familiar railing, and ride their ill fated  club to the bottom of the sea. 

I just went back to make sure I didn't miss it, but I don't see anything in your post stating what you would like to happen to make it more inclusive to younger members and kids.

They have the kids club, while I do not have kids of my own who have been involved with that, I know friends whose kids have been in it and I believe those members think it was a good experience for their kids.  (in addition to participating in TCA activities with their dad, one friend's child wrote for the kids club portion of the headquarters news at least several times)

Ew a Titanic reference. 

MartyE posted:

Ew a Titanic reference. 

I think it's a requirement (or maybe even on a checklist) for people who start these threads.

Those of us that enjoy York are held hostage by the TCA. Including the dues increase. If I reach the no York stage, bye bye TCA. The Museum is very nice but it's a money pit and they keep pouring more money into it. So they always want more money. Donate your trains to them so they can be sold off to spend more.

Wow  - "amnesty, punishment, drop dead, old white men" all in one comment.  Pretty dramatic words to describe nothing more than a simple letter offering renewed membership in a toy train organization.   

I have the highest regard  for all the people at TCA who step up to the plate and devote an awful lot of their time, energy and at times aggravation to try to manage and steer the organization through changing times and multiple issues.    

Being one of those "old white guys" you refer to has some definite advantages having learned a few things along the way.  

For example, I would never think to bad mouth a group or organization who has members that actually have volunteered to get involved and be responsible for trying to resolve problems.  Criticizing is really easy.  Offering up valid suggestions for a solution takes some thought.  

But then again, what do I know,  I am just one of those old white guys you make reference to.

Ed

C W Burfle posted:

There would be value for me also, if the TCA changed and became more inclusive of younger collectors and kids.

Let's separate the two.
What would you like to see the TCA do to be more inclusive of younger collectors?

The TCA could offer a basic welcome for new members, both young and old. Even a quick, welcoming, promotional call from someone on the division Board could certainly go a long way to establish a positive initial impression.  This may not be as necessary for older members, who will quickly and naturally assimilate into a crowd of similar individuals. But this type of outreach it is really important for younger members, women, minorities, or others who may be marginalized and not feel welcome to bond with the group or establish the same social connections. This is a hobby which should be inclusive for all.

This one really has me puzzled. Do you want to read more about Modern Era collecting? I don't think I fall into what you would consider the "younger" group any more, still I'd like to read more about the Modern Era. It takes members to write those articles. Some information is published in the TCA's online magazine.

I am seeing more and more operator oriented material in the quarterly magazine.

And what would you like to see the TCA do to be more attractive to children?

In the 1970's and 1980's many members had children, and brought them to meets.  The entire experience seemed more child friendly. Many members were at a point in their journey where children were part of their daily lives. Sure, there were always a few wayward grumps who despised kids. But they were silenced by the more stable majority of members with kids. Today, there are virtually no children to be seen at TCA meets.  This  issue has been difficult for many years.  I applaud the efforts of many TCA leaders, including those of the Southern Division, to reach out to children, provide activities and show genuine kindness. However, the membership at large needs to be given an attitude adjustment with respect to how they interact with children and families. These table holders, who to the eyes of the outside world represent the TCA,  must learn to be polite, attentive and friendly. Don't yell at families about  strollers, give  kids the evil eye, or act with rudeness or contempt. Don't ignore children. Promote the hobby instead of behaving as if your bridge tournament at the seniors' home was interrupted. The "kids areas" always seem nice at face value, but what purpose do these truly serve? Do these areas truly foster interaction with older members from whom the young can learn the hobby? Or, do they merely segregate children to the periphery, keeping those little hands away from the curmudgeonly member tables?

The TCA has it's kid's club. While my kids were members, they sent out an occasional newsletter.  No activities in my neck of the woods, but then again, there are no adult activities either.

The Eastern Division's York Train show is a division function, not a national TCA one. The York show has had a play area for children for quite some time now. I don't remember when it started. And I think the Eastern Division has even started to allow strollers in the halls again after banning them since sometime in the second half of the 1980's.

The number of display layouts at the York show has also been increasing.

Ed Walsh posted:

Wow  - "amnesty, punishment, drop dead, old white men" all in one comment.  Pretty dramatic words to describe nothing more than a simple letter offering renewed membership in a toy train organization.   

I have the highest regard  for all the people at TCA who step up to the plate and devote an awful lot of their time, energy and at times aggravation to try to manage and steer the organization through changing times and multiple issues.    

Being one of those "old white guys" you refer to has some definite advantages having learned a few things along the way.  

For example, I would never think to bad mouth a group or organization who has members that actually have volunteered to get involved and be responsible for trying to resolve problems.  Criticizing is really easy.  Offering up valid suggestions for a solution takes some thought.  

But then again, what do I know,  I am just one of those old white guys you make reference to.

Ed

 

Ed,

I appreciate your comments and they are certainly valid. But it must be remembered that before one can volunteer, they must be welcomed to an organization. Once welcomed into the fold, the desire to contribute in a positive way comes naturally.

Incidentally, selectively clipping certain words from a post, and re-assembling them out-of-context could itself be construed as dramatic behavior too

But returning the focus to the original post, a more welcoming TCA would be one to which I would be more likely to pay a reasonable fee.

Just my two cents...and I certainly mean no offense:

I'll probably take them up on the Amnesty International offer simply b/c it's not much money in the long run.

But the reality is....at least for me....that this web site and its users have become much more valuable and helpful to me than the TCA ever has.  I've kind of forgotten about the TCA, actually.  Every so often, something in the mail jogs my memory.

Part of that is potentially Cleveland specific.  The TCA events that I've attended in nearby Pittsburgh are far, far superior to what I've enjoyed locally....IMHO.

 These table holders, who to the eyes of the outside world represent the TCA,  must learn to be polite, attentive and friendly. Don't yell at families about  strollers, give  kids the evil eye, or act with rudeness or contempt. Don't ignore children. Promote the hobby instead of behaving as if your bridge tournament at the seniors' home was interrupted. The "kids areas" always seem nice at face value, but what purpose do these truly serve? Do these areas truly foster interaction with older members from whom the young can learn the hobby? Or, do they merely segregate children to the periphery, keeping those little hands away from the curmudgeonly member tables?

Boy, I never witnessed widespread behavior like you are describing at the TCA shows I've attended, nor have I experienced it when my kids were with me. I guess we must have run into a few over the years. So what! Just shrug it off, and move on to the next table. Maybe its because I've only been to TCA shows run by NETCA (Boston area) or Eastern Division (York). Maybe its because my kids knew how to behave themselves at train shows.

The last few sentences sound like you are looking for someone else to entertain your kids.

Yeah, I find the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the $50 annual dues a bit much.

Really?  For the privilege of attending the world's greatest train meet twice a year?

George

However, the membership at large needs to be given an attitude adjustment with respect to how they interact with children and families. These table holders, who to the eyes of the outside world represent the TCA,  must learn to be polite, attentive and friendly. Don't yell at families about  strollers, give  kids the evil eye, or act with rudeness or contempt.

I love children. My wife has 5 grandchildren and I enjoy every minute I spend with them. I even volunteer to babysit. I don't think that I need an "attitude adjustment" when it comes to children. I have once or twice run into someone rude at various trains shows (not always the TCA shows) but I just take it as what it is. Some jerk. There are jerks everywhere in life so why not one or two at a train show. Like C.W. Burfle said I have not seen this attitude in a widespread manner across any train show be it TCA or Greenburg. I find your point of view to be something that can't really be debated because the TCA cannot change people. Nor can the government legislate morality. People don't change unless they want to. Even if the TCA wanted to issue some statement or rule change to the table holders do you really think they will obey it? And just how will the TCA enforce some sort of behavior code? They have plenty to do just running the meet. Don't let the "curmudgeonly" people bother you. Either turn your back on them or tell them off but don't let them spoil your fun.

Don't ignore children. Promote the hobby instead of behaving as if your bridge tournament at the seniors' home was interrupted. The "kids areas" always seem nice at face value, but what purpose do these truly serve? Do these areas truly foster interaction with older members from whom the young can learn the hobby? Or, do they merely segregate children to the periphery, keeping those little hands away from the curmudgeonly member tables?

Most kids once they spend some time with me will like me but when a child first meets a stranger they will be hesitant to interact with a such a person. Why would the children need to interact with older members they never met before? The "Kids areas" serve a great purpose. Kids often get bored after a while at looking at trains. They also have a lot of energy and in the "Kids area" they can play and burn off some of that energy doing something that is fun FOR THEM. It has nothing to do with segregation. The children are not forced to stay in the play area. I have often walked by the Kids area and I saw the children playing and enjoying themselves. I think it is a really nice of the TCA to have that area for the kids. Maybe they could enlarge it a little or have more activities for the children but nothing wrong with it as it is. The TCA did have a "Night at the Museum" some years ago where a parent and a child spent the night at the Toy Train Museum. Perhaps more events like this is what you are talking about. I don't know why they stopped having it or if it was any good or not.

"Ew a Titanic reference."

Too soon...?

 The TCA did have a "Night at the Museum" some years ago where a parent and a child spent the night at the Toy Train Museum. Perhaps more events like this is what you are talking about. I don't know why they stopped having it or if it was any good or not.

From what I recall reading, the program was well received. Here is one problem: the TCA is a national organization. Realistically, the  "Night at the Museum" program will only service TCA members who live within a certain distance from the museum. TCA national has to give consideration such things. IMHO, this sort of program is better done by divisions. Maybe some divisions already have some family or public facing activities.

Lets give it a rest already! No one is twisting your arm to part with a big $50 I spend that on a movie ticket and a small pop corn.

Maybe just me, but I thought there were more kids at York in the fall than i'd seen in the past few years.... its kind of hard to yank kids out of school for a thursday/friday.

maint posted:

Lets give it a rest already! No one is twisting your arm to part with a big $50 I spend that on a movie ticket and a small pop corn.

Your money is better spent on a movie and popcorn. In my opinion 

OGR Webmaster posted:

C W Burfle posted:

A print subscription to OGR is $35 per year. A OGR digital subscription is $30 per year. I don't think there is a discount for those who want both, but I could be mistaken.  I checked the prices on several other Model Train magazines and their prices are similar.

Currently we aren't able to discount a Print and Digital Package subscription, but that's coming very soon.

As to why the TCA losing members, I'll refrain from getting into that discussion.

I enjoy the digital OGR edition vs print. The other day I spent some time downloading selected pages and articles from the OGR digital library, a feature many of the other model train magazines do not offer.

I will keep my TCA membership active too.

On the topic of TCA and membership renewal dues... I had let my membership slip for three years, then decided I wanted to go to York and be a member again. I was charged " membership back dues" for the three years I was not a member, plus a fee, plus the cost of the year I rejoined. I never ever received any back issues of the Quarterly for the three years I paid for. A complete rip off!

When the dues went up to $55 I said no.

This new renewal program is somewhat appealing. Not to "bad mouth" the TCA, as it does have it's good points... But I've tried being involved in the TCA, and what I see is that the only reason the TCA still exists is because of the York meet.

Maybe I'll decide to make it back to the York meet and pay the $67 gate.

Wouldn't do me any good to join the TCA. As far as i know there are no TCA events in Indiana. I would love to go to York but it's to far away

Hi feet

are you in the Indianapolis Indiana area? If so check out the CENTRAL INDIANA CHAPTER of the MIDWEST DIVISION OF TCA.  See the link from MWD web site at www.tca-Midwest.org to the Central Indiana Chapter.

liagent

MrNabisco posted:

On the topic of TCA and membership renewal dues... I had let my membership slip for three years, then decided I wanted to go to York and be a member again. I was charged " membership back dues" for the three years I was not a member, plus a fee, plus the cost of the year I rejoined. I never ever received any back issues of the Quarterly for the three years I paid for. A complete rip off!

.........................

 

If you specifically asked about the publications, someone most likely misled you (hopefully mistakenly, not that it helps much since you paid the money). 

Did you pursue it with the TCA at the time?  Just saying you were ripped off if you didn't follow up to inquire what was up is sort of like saying you got a boxcar with no trucks on it and it wasn't made right without asking the seller or manufacturer to make it right.  I don't know for a fact TCA would let you re-settle your membership renewal based on the miscommunication, but it would not seem unreasonable to consider.

The only benefit for paying the back dues is keeping your old member number.  There is a (possibly/probably small) segment of former members who did care about that, getting back a "low number" they had in their past before a lapse in membership. 

Someone I know got back into trains in the late 90's after having their membership lapse back in the mid 70's.  He asked the question about receiving past publications and was told that was not possible.  (though obviously that is a more extreme case than yours, as 20+ years of publications would be harder to produce, or expect there to be a set of "spares" laying around, and I know he pushed the issue to get a solid answer).  He decided the old member number was not that important and just joined as a new member.

-Dave

Take it easy guys.  This thread is just a warm up for the "I'm Boycotting York", "York Is Terrible",  "York Should Let The Public In", "Prices Are Too High At York", "63 days until York", "What Are You Wanting To Buy At York" threads that are coming in March and April. 

I re-joined as a new member.  No big deal.  I take comfort that my old TCA number is sitting in a vault somewhere waiting and only I can claim it.  I stopped to coach my son for several years in Baseball.  I would have rejoined years ago, but I was required to pay all the back dues. 

York is too far?   Its a 1592 mile drive for me each way.  Like most everything in life, it just depends on how bad you want it.

Dues too high?  Really, with the 50% drop in the price of gasoline you should have $55 laying around every week.

Inclusive of kids?  Just how inclusive can you be.  Please consider the competition and the lower cost that O gauge trains are up against: social media; phones-aka-portable games/movies; video games consoles etc, not to mention the room required for a layout.  For heavens sake we have the NFL begging kids to go outside and play for 60 minutes a day.   We got minivans with multiple DVD players to keep kids occupied.

As for "Old White Man's Hobby", hmmm.  The average O Gauge related age is undoubtedly increasing.  I still see a good representation of younger men.  Let's face it, you have to reach a certain age and success in life to have the disposable income required by this hobby.

Liagent posted:

Hi feet

are you in the Indianapolis Indiana area? If so check out the CENTRAL INDIANA CHAPTER of the MIDWEST DIVISION OF TCA.  See the link from MWD web site at www.tca-Midwest.org to the Central Indiana Chapter.

liagent

NO, i am in Seymour. About 50 miles from Indy. I will check into this. Thanks.

aussteve posted:

Take it easy guys.  This thread is just a warm up for the "I'm Boycotting York", "York Is Terrible",  "York Should Let The Public In", "Prices Are Too High At York", "63 days until York", "What Are You Wanting To Buy At York" threads that are coming in March and April. 

Thank you!  The laughter alone made the post worth it.  I'm sitting here typing with tears in my eyes.    
George

Several people have written that the dues are $55. The correct number is $50.
Now you can afford to purchase one 10 inch section of Fastrack ($4.60)

$50 not $55? These days that's actually a couple gallons of gas I could use to drive to York.