TCA re-up or not?

RJR posted:

..................  But, if a significant percentage of TCA members express a lack of interest in the Quarterly, then TCA ought to consider how it can reduce publications and postage costs by providing a vehicle to unsubscribe, or make it on-line with hard copy only to those who request same.  TCA should welcome such observations, rather than consider them as an attack.

So I haven't seen this brought up yet, but others who may remember, please check my memory.

I seem to recall over the years, there used to be some sort of a "check box" when you filled out your membership renewal that would limit (eliminate) the paper mailings.  My understanding was that it was meant to be a way for families with multiple memberships to stop from getting 2 or more copies of each item at their house.  (multiple memberships were perhaps much more common when every single table at York needed a membership # to go with it, no booths for dealers, extra tables, etc - that actually probably took a big toll on membership roster years ago when it changed).

I seem to recall it being posted in big bold letters that checking this box would halt your publications.  It would certainly seem that you could check this box to stop receiving publications, since the warning was there to not do it if you did still want the publications.

Is my memory that messed up, or does anyone else remember it?  (again, may still be there, but since I mail my renewal in, I have no way to go back and look it up).

If this is still there, it's amazing that the option to save the TCA money on postage and paper has been there all along and no one seems to realize it.

-Dave

I enjoy my hobby and hope it continues to interest new members. I haven't gone to York in 8 years, the Toy Train Museum longer than that...

My view is Pay if Forward...$50 / yr is my pleasure to help this hobby survive and thrive. It's my own fault if I don't take advantage of all the benefits membership provides.

Paul

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

The accuracy of a good crystal ball for any of us notwithstanding, I guess we'll need to revisit this topic 5-10 years out and see how the ED-TCA York calendar looks then! 

David

5-10 years? LOL, I'm sure someone will bring this discussion up in 2-3 months!

As for me I am staying in the TCA for the long haul. I'm a scale guy and I don't have a large interest in toy train side of the hobby but I respect it. I do have a very small collection of toy trains and someday I would like to add to it. Maybe I will even buy some Standard Gauge.

I also want to "pay it forward" as mentioned above.

York is like Christmas every spring to me.  I can spend a little or a lot but I am always intoxicated by the experience. I consider the dues as my "passport" fee.

LIRR Steamer, you are correct in your comments.  I did not intend to be critical of any TCA publications, and apologize if I worded my post to create that impression.  No question that the current content is of great interest to collectors and it should not be watered down for others.  However, since I have no real interest in collecting, and no doubt there are others of like ilk, TCA could save considerable (and needed) money by allowing us to unsubscribe to hard copy.

For the record, I have NEVER complained about the entrance fee at York, nor having to be a TCA member, nor the level of TCA dues.   I have NEVER complained about TCA governance:  it is a tough task to try to run an organization based on volunteers.

However, I do think that governing board members of national and chapters deserve to hear from members as to what makes them join, continue, or leave.  The Board must have information to enable it to make decisions which will keep manufacturers and "new train" dealers coming, cause attendance to not decrease, and keep finances out of the red.  If, say, 30% of the membership would drop out if York were to revert to merely a collectors' exchange as I understand it once was, that is a factor the Board must consider in charting its cost.  If maintaining the museum would cause an increase in dues of such magnitude as to drive away new and existing members, that is another factor the Board must consider.

The expression of opinions on these matters, however untactfully they are worded, should not be discouraged, and should not be taken as criticism unless they resort to personal attacks  such as we witness in a current political campaign.

However, I do think that governing board members of national and chapters deserve to hear from members as to what makes them join, continue, or leave.  The Board must have information to enable it to make decisions which will keep manufacturers and "new train" dealers coming, cause attendance to not decrease, and keep finances out of the red.  If, say, 30% of the membership would drop out if York were to revert to merely a collectors' exchange as I understand it once was, that is a factor the Board must consider in charting its cost.  If maintaining the museum would cause an increase in dues of such magnitude as to drive away new and existing members, that is another factor the Board must consider.

The TCA York Train Show is not controlled by the national Train Collectors Association. It is a division show, controlled by the Eastern Division. (Although I am certain the ED board carefully considers any input the national board may have)
The national Train Collectors Association does control the museum.

Sigh.. I guess I don't understand why we sometime have such difficulty in having a conversation about the TCA.

The TCA is a fine organization, and I have no doubt that the folks who volunteer put in a lot of there personal time to help achieve the goals of the organization.

MartyE posted:

FWIW...

Train Collectors Association Mission Statement:
"To develop an appreciation of and to preserve an important segment of history - Tinplate Toy Trains - through research, education, community outreach, fellowship, establishment of collecting standards, and to promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains."

So the TCA does have "operating" in their mission statement. Some chose to ignore it. 

And Marty, I haven't ignored anything.  Maybe it's different on the 'members only" section of the TCA website, but most of the articles on the "open" pages deal with postwar/tradition trains.  This includes the "operating" type articles.  Again, there is nothing wrong with this as this represents the core of the TCA membership.  But, as a operator of scale model trains, I can find very little on the website that deals with my segment of the hobby.

As TCA members, y'all absolutely have the last word in how the organization is run.  However, if you want to expand membership (and I know many current members don't care if this happens) you need to at least hear what folks have to say.  For someone to state their views is NOT anti-TCA.   

Jim

Wow. Didja take that to heart?  I was more or less talking about some of the current TCA members. 

Sorry Marty, my whole post wasn't geared towards your post, only the paragraph under the quote. And I apparently misread, big time, what you posted.  I apologize for my misunderstanding.

The rest of my post tried to deal with the responses that almost always occur when someone attempts to make a suggestion regarding how the TCA might expand membership.

Again, I apologize.

Jim

Jim. No worries. I tend to agree the older members forget without operators there wouldn't be much to collect. Have a good evening. 

Even though as an operator I have a limited interest in the TCA publications which are focused on the collector, I still believe continuing membership in the TCA is well worthwhile for me.  Their mission is an important one.  In recent years they have made great strides in  resolving the structural issues which proved costly.  The leadership appears to me to be responsive to members and working hard to deal with changing times, demographics, etc.

As for York - if for no other reason ( and there are good reasons)  I would renew every year just to help support the incredible job the ED and all the volunteers do twice a year, every year.   I live a good distance from York so making that trip is a job and an expense.  I have attended just 4 times and I can honestly say how overwhelmed I am when I first walk into the halls.  Makes me feel like I am 8 and I am walking into the Lionel showroom in NYC at Christmas time, new catalog in hand.

Renewing, for me, is an easy decision.

Thanks,

Ed

I have never been a member of the TCA and I do not plan on it in the future. However, I would be much more inclined to join the TCA over the LCCA or LOTS. My beef with the LCCA and LOTS is well brand loyalty and narrow mindedness of the LCCA. LOTS is mainly just Lionel and I dont care for their magazine. 

Th

ENP1976 posted:

My beef with the LCCA and LOTS is well brand loyalty and narrow mindedness of the LCCA. LOTS is mainly just Lionel and I dont care for their magazine. 

Th

Explain?  Brand Loyalty?  It's called the Lionel Collectors Club of America and Lionel Operating Train Society.  By their very name they a brand loyal.   The TCA does have a much broader statement and pretty much has no manufacturer associated with it.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what you expected out of these clubs both with the name LIONEL in them.

MartyE posted:

Explain?  Brand Loyalty?  It's called the Lionel Collectors Club of America and Lionel Operating Train Society.  By their very name they a brand loyal.   The TCA does have a much broader statement and pretty much has no manufacturer associated with it.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what you expected out of these clubs both with the name LIONEL in them.

Crazy, right?  The MTH Railroader's Club in contrast seems to never focus on Lionel product, how could that possibly be?

-Dave

Ed Walsh posted:

Even though as an operator I have a limited interest in the TCA publications which are focused on the collector, I still believe continuing membership in the TCA is well worthwhile for me.

 

I understand the criticism of the focus of the publications, but that sort of begs the question - are operators submitting articles for publication?  As far as I know, the TCA doesn't have staff writers to produce the articles they publish (although some writers are prolific enough to make it seem like they do).  They (like all of the clubs) rely on member submissions.  Personally, I think articles of interest to operators tend to gravitate towards OGR and CTT and the TCA is not even in consideration by these authors.  Only the operators within the membership can change the content of the publications to have more of interest to them.

Andy

Andy Hummell posted:

Ed Walsh posted:

Even though as an operator I have a limited interest in the TCA publications which are focused on the collector, I still believe continuing membership in the TCA is well worthwhile for me.

 

I understand the criticism of the focus of the publications, but that sort of begs the question - are operators submitting articles for publication?  As far as I know, the TCA doesn't have staff writers to produce the articles they publish (although some writers are prolific enough to make it seem like they do).  They (like all of the clubs) rely on member submissions.  Personally, I think articles of interest to operators tend to gravitate towards OGR and CTT and the TCA is not even in consideration by these authors.  Only the operators within the membership can change the content of the publications to have more of interest to them.

Andy

The quickest way to eliminate costs is end the bimonthly mailing and mail it in the same package as their quarterly magazine. As to the articles, OGR and CTT pay versus TCA correct?

I was a member since '96 and have let my membership go. Little bang for the buck IMHO. I do belong to LCCA and find that it's very member driven. I like it and their publications included with membership.

jd-train posted:

... I'm sure the lawsuit over the Doyle book didn't help. ...

Somehow I missed this.  Can you provide some background info and/or a link?

I've enjoyed reading the dialogue about the TCA.  I too have allowed my membership to cancel.  I fear that the TCA is becoming a dinosaur.  I still consider myself young (age 29) and the club is not keeping with the times.  Things are now revolving around smart phone apps, online forums, etc...  Sure the mailed out stuff is nice but I would prefer more frequent and online communication.  This would keep someone like me involved and also justify, for me at least, the membership dues.  

Even the TCA show schedule, to find out any info online, good luck!  

And then when you get to the show, you are greeted my someone who better represents the TSA, not TCA.  

Todd Knoll posted:

  Sure the mailed out stuff is nice but I would prefer more frequent and online communication.  This would keep someone like me involved and also justify, for me at least, the membership dues.  

Interesting you say that because in the last year I've gotten more emails from the TCA than in the last 10. All with links, stories, and information. 

MartyE posted:

Todd Knoll posted:

  Sure the mailed out stuff is nice but I would prefer more frequent and online communication.  This would keep someone like me involved and also justify, for me at least, the membership dues.  

Interesting you say that because in the last year I've gotten more emails from the TCA than in the last 10. All with links, stories, and information. 

Wow guess I let my membership go too soon.  I let it expire in 2012.  The only correspondence I've gotten since was the letter in the mail this year about re enrolling with some sort of a discount.  I filed the letter with the dog for safe keeping!

Gee Whiz fellas.  I also really dont like Lionel (modern) or MTH or the publications from either LCCA or LOTS. I have had a few magazines in the past from them and I really dont see much for me. Then again I DO like the TCA, but just dont see myself joining at this point. I DO love older Lionel and maybe im in a small crowd here, but I love the old Kusan / AMT stuff 

Todd, I guess that the TCA is just too much for you to handle.

As long as there is TCA I'll be a member. Fifty bucks is only one box car. No big deal.

Rod Miller

eddie g posted:

Todd, I guess that the TCA is just too much for you to handle.

Yep Eddie wayyyy too much for me.  Hope you feel better now.  

Todd

Here is the latest email I received.  Pretty much get something like this every month.  Usually also get a few other, less graphical emails with general info.

Here is a link to the TCA Online Magazine, called E*Train.
It was started in March 2002, all the issues are available online, under the "Issues" tab.
Folks interested in newer trains and operating might like the articles.
Everyone can read the magazine, it is not restricted to TCA members.

Many of us don't realize how "good" we have it. There are many more postcard collectors than train collectors. The biggest postcard show in the country is held at the York Fairgrounds once a year (November). It only fills the White Hall.

I like that one, Model train Detector. 

After being a TCA member for 30 years I dropped out when the dues rose to $50. While I fully expect the TCA to continue without my dues, I do not miss being a member. Any hobby can be appreciated without being a member of any club. My departure from TCA was only based upon its direction, and its value not price. The trips to York would cost us roughly $500. It was always a fun time but overall a losing proposition in purchasing. Today everything can be found on eBay and the local shows without three days of lost time and the expense of attending York. I get all the news from OGR and meet many of the good people at Allentown and Edison .  I will rejoin the TCA when it becomes a true outreach group to young, old and to families. Right now they only serve a declining aging audience. If they are to survive TCA needs to figure out how to reach the next generation and the general public. Same with the ED. Challenges lie ahead. You either change or fail.

Since I had started this thread, I'd like to follow up and confirm that I did renew, and I do plan to attend October York and hopefully future TCA events. 

It's true that we spend more than we save when it comes to the Meets.  They have been more a social gathering than a discount shopping spree and that's fine with me. 

Farmer_Bill posted:

...  It's true that we spend more than we save when it comes to the Meets.  They have been more a social gathering than a discount shopping spree and that's fine with me. 

Without a doubt, I've found this to be the case -- especially  these days where supply grossly outpaces demand and dealers continue to order extra's of all those BTO items.  Just look at how often forum sponsors are conducting "sales" here...  almost monthly like clockwork.  Although I did notice some forum sponsor "regulars" were MIA for a Columbus Day sale this time around.  I guess business is doing particularly well for them.    Or perhaps that's the impression they want to convey the week before York. 

But seriously, I wonder how many folks actually attend York with wads of $$$$ burning a hole in their pockets.  Oh I'm sure there will be some folks with a big roll of cash here and there.  But generally speaking, I can't help but wonder how many folks have needed to scale back their York shopping sprees... between BIG-TICKET stuff that just arrived in the last couple of months AND pre-order stuff they're still waiting to receive this year or early 2017. 

So yes... I'll confess that York has become somewhat more of a social experience and industry trade show for me the past several years rather than a time to go on a big shopping spree.  More of a time to catch up with old and new friends, check in with the big vendors, and just pick up a token item or two -- all of which help make the trip memorable.  In fact, it's been quite a long while that I can remember leaving the York Fairgrounds parking lot with the SUV filled to capacity.  But that's OK... those days were fun in their own right at that moment in time.   So for now, the travel expenses take care of themselves, and it's all good fun.

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Farmer_Bill posted:

...  It's true that we spend more than we save when it comes to the Meets.  They have been more a social gathering than a discount shopping spree and that's fine with me. 

But seriously, I wonder how many folks actually attend York with wads of $$$$ burning a hole in their pockets.  Oh I'm sure there will be some folks with a big roll of cash here and there.  But generally speaking, I can't help but wonder how many folks have needed to scale back their York shopping sprees... between BIG-TICKET stuff that just arrived in the last couple of months AND pre-order stuff they're still waiting to receive this year or early 2017. 

 

David

If you believe some of these guys, they don't go to York with less than 4 digits of cash in their wallets!  I go for fun and social aspect first.  Buying trains secondary.

RE: Doyle Book lawsuit:

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/p/105833/1227775.aspx

MartyE posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Farmer_Bill posted:

...  It's true that we spend more than we save when it comes to the Meets.  They have been more a social gathering than a discount shopping spree and that's fine with me. 

But seriously, I wonder how many folks actually attend York with wads of $$$$ burning a hole in their pockets.  Oh I'm sure there will be some folks with a big roll of cash here and there.  But generally speaking, I can't help but wonder how many folks have needed to scale back their York shopping sprees... between BIG-TICKET stuff that just arrived in the last couple of months AND pre-order stuff they're still waiting to receive this year or early 2017. 

 

David

If you believe some of these guys, they don't go to York with less than 4 digits of cash in their wallets!  I go for fun and social aspect first.  Buying trains secondary.

I get frustrated when people say to "new" folks going to York "Bring lots of cash". First off, York is a place to find stuff, be able to examine closely, and "test run" before you buy. In general, I don't think it's "bargain city". Now that I'm old, and our 4 kids are grown, educated, and gone, I have plenty of cash. What I HAVE run out of is space on the layouts and shelves. My usual expenditure at York is about $80. York, to me, is a bi-yearly ritual of being surrounded by trains and "train nuts". But I have to admit, I live a little less than a 2-hour drive from York, so 'round trip is about a half tank of gas. 

I'll probably let my membership lapse when it expires next Spring.  My main interests were to someday visit York (which now doesn't seem possible) and meeting fellow members from my area.  All attempts on the latter have come up empty as no one in my immediate locale had any desire to let newer TCA members into their circle.  No bitterness, just fact!

I still will be a member of TCA and I will still go to YORK twice a year.  Since I have joined the TCA I have seen YORK shrink in the past five years.  Vendors that were once there are no long able to come or have gone out of business.  It is not about going to YORK and buying.  As others have said it is about seeing friends that one has made through this hobby and also learning from them and from manufactures that show the latest innovations that keep our veracious appetite for toy trains fed.    

I read threads like this but don't usually comment. They often focus on the $50 annual fee, or did at the time it was increased. I joined TCA in 2000, after I had joined LCCA. I went to York in October 2001, and twice in 2002. In 2001, I felt the need to connect with other train people, after the terrorist attacks. Went to the AOL dinner at the Viking Club, and had a great time generally. I haven't been back to York since 2002, but not because I didn't enjoy the total experience. 

I have stayed with the TCA for its purpose and vision, as well as for its publications. It also has an active local division with a very energetic core of members. The $50 is not the controlling issue for my membership, for the same reasons that many other members have stated. Barring major financial setback or other "bad juju", I'll stay with the train clubs. This is despite the fact that my train buying has slowed down to almost nil, as opposed to where I was in the 1990's and early 2000's. (I was a monthly attendee at the DuPage Show for several decades, and yet my attendance last Sunday was the first time since late 2012, again, for many reasons I won't go into here.)

Farmer_Bill posted:

Since I had started this thread, I'd like to follow up and confirm that I did renew, and I do plan to attend October York and hopefully future TCA events. 

It's true that we spend more than we save when it comes to the Meets.  They have been more a social gathering than a discount shopping spree and that's fine with me. 

Farmer Bill:

I'm glad you made the choice to renew.  The organization needs all the level-headed, thoughtful, and reasonable people it can get.  You certainly seem like one of those.

If you see my name tag in the halls or if I see your scrapple T shirt, let's stop and I'll introduce myself and shake your hand and congratulate you on your decision.

Steven J. Serenska

Honestly, being in the TCA for only two months now, I have the least say in any of this. But if I was in the position to say something meaningful, I'd just say if you don't like how the organization is run then simply leave it. If the dues are too high for some members, don't moan about it. Just leave. Which in fact many people seem to be doing that.