@Tinplate Art posted:Video?
Oh... not with my phone. Heck, you've seen my lousy photos; I can only imagine how poor a video would be! 😄
Mark in Oregon
Okay, just for laughs...
I put the #33 on the bench and hooked up a volt meter to the leads of a Lionel type S transformer: it started in at about 6V and by 10V it was running about as fast as I'd want it to. (Interestingly enough, its performance is almost identical to a 1946 vintage S scale American Flyer #320 Hudson. I know this, because I checked. 
)
The #10 didn't start to run until 9V; by 12V it was running as fast as needed; which is to say, fast enough.
In lieu of a video, I figured this would be the next best thing... 
Mark in Oregon
Mark, I have a #10 but not a #33 to compare. The #10 seems to be reasonably "slippery" in coasting after cutting power though not very much, especially when pulling it's cars.
You are correct in that they have different types of motors, and the difference may account for the additional coasting of the #33. I haven't played with any of the Early Period locos so I have no experience.
Are you running the engines light or pulling a train?
I don’t have a super motor. But I do have a 33 locomotive that I do occasionally run when I have my standard gauge set up. I’ll be the first to say that the coasting that your 33 does is normal. Pretty much all 33 locomotives are fairly lightweight in the realm of Standard gauge trains. They don’t have very much meat on their bones like the zinc wheels, cast iron wheels, thick motor frames, etc. So I would not worry about the coasting. I don’t have a super motor to run, but I would say that it stops on a dime because it’s a lot more heavy than the 33.
Trainfam
Thanks for the replies. 🙂
I guess the best way to describe the difference is the "33" acts kinda like a typical post war Lionel engine (with the armature parallel to the track); you can very easily turn the wheels by hand, and there is that "coasting" effect.
Although the "10" can be rolled by hand, there is much more resistance and its performance is more like a worm-drive engine.
Since I don't know anything about Standard Gauge, I don't know if the difference in the two is typical. I'm not saying there's anything "wrong" with the "10"; I just am surprised by the difference... either way, they are both very cool machines. 😊
Mark in Oregon
The difference is that the #10 has 2 gears, the 33 has a single gear, plus the 10 has a lower gear ratio for power instead of speed. There is a more complicated discussion about tolerances and gear lash, as well as gear train friction.
There you go! :-)
@William 1 posted:
Got my Greenberg guide. Might want to invest in one of these. Pretty much tells the whole story in an organized way. You will learn a lot in a short time, I did.
Broke down and ordered this today...😁
Mark in Oregon
If I may continue this "stream of consciousness" thread:
Regarding these "latch" couplers; I'm so used to Kadees I didn't know what to expect from these, much less how they operate. 🤔
As it turns out, they work surprisingly well...they look funny, but they do actually work! 😁
I also have a "318" on it's way, so you all were right about this stuff; it's hard to know when to quit! 😊
Mark in Oregon
@Strummer posted:Broke down and ordered this today...😁
Mark in Oregon
An update: just got an email from Mr Greenberg himself, thanking me for the purchase.
How cool is that!?! 😁
Mark in Oregon
@Strummer posted:An update: just got an email from Mr Greenberg himself, thanking me for the purchase.
How cool is that!?! 😁
Mark in Oregon
Pretty cool. He is a good man.
@Rob English posted:Pretty cool. He is a good man.
He has sent me several emails now, all with "pages" from the book, to help "keep me busy" until the book actually arrives. I suspect I will be asking less annoying questions here after I have a chance to read it! 😁
Mark in Oregon
A legend in this hobby! 😀
Greenberg guides. They’re pretty good books especially for the starting collector. There are a few topics that aren’t covered in his standard gauge book. Most of these topics are obscure and rather rarely talked about such as the black and red primer series. Both were for a short stent of time red primer (1911-1912) black primer 1910… not to disparage Mr. Greenberg’s book.
Trainfam
There is always something new to learn! 😀
Both the Greenberg guides and the TM series were helpful to many of us over the decades!
@Tinplate Art posted:There is always something new to learn! 😀
That’s the fun thing about collecting. It’s like a never ending puzzle.
Trainfam
Of course, it all started with the late great Louis Hertz! His encyclopedic knowledge of toy trains and the collecting hobby is legendary.
@TrainFam posted:Greenberg guides. They’re pretty good books especially for the starting collector. There are a few topics that aren’t covered in his standard gauge book. Most of these topics are obscure and rather rarely talked about such as the black and red primer series. Both were for a short stent of time red primer (1911-1912) black primer 1910… not to disparage Mr. Greenberg’s book.
Trainfam
The older books started Bruce down the path. They were very basic like the McComas series. The latest offerings are JAM Packed with information... some obscure stuff had to be left out due to size of the books. The one thing that gives collectors the advantage with Bruces book is that the vast majority of items published have corroborations by well know, knowledgeable collectors, legitimizing (or disqualifying) a ton of stuff.
Rob
You seem to be super knowledgeable in this stuff; can we count you among those "collaborators"? I know you've certainly been a big help to me... 👍
Mark in Oregon
@William 1 posted:Mark - I use a Cab1, powermaster and TMCC brick. Here is a 318 with brown baby states, another of the smaller and less expensive prewar standard gauge engines.
I decided to try this:
Now this unit is not overly popular with the O gauge crowd; it's my understanding that there's something about the "sine wave" that makes this a little "harsh" when running can-motored locos. I find it does lack low speed control on those types of engines.
However, with open-framed locos, like the post war S gauge steamers I have, it's great and it also seems to run the Standard Gauge "33" and "10" very nicely. I suspect it will handle the "318" (arriving sometime next week) as well.
Hoping everyone is having a pleasant weekend.
Mark in Oregon
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@Strummer posted:Rob
You seem to be super knowledgeable in this stuff; can we count you among those "collaborators"? I know you've certainly been a big help to me... 👍
Mark in Oregon
Pshaw ... after 30 years you pick some stuff up.... yes, I have been working with Bruce. Studying, photographing, proofing chapters, etc. My way of giving back. I got involved to correct some misinformation, ended up learning a bunch!
@Strummer posted:I decided to try this:
Now this unit is not overly popular with the O gauge crowd; it's my understanding that there's something about the "sine wave" that makes this a little "harsh" when running can-motored locos. I find it does lack low speed control on those types of engines.
However, with open-framed locos, like the post war S gauge steamers I have, it's great and it also seems to run the Standard Gauge "33" and "10" very nicely. I suspect it will handle the "318" (arriving sometime next week) as well.
Hoping everyone is having a pleasant weekend.
Mark in Oregon
Runs the universal wound open frame AC motors Just fine. Can motors seem to the prefer chopped sine wave, versus the full wave of this Xformer. This can run all prewar AC motors, postwar too. IIRC, this only goes to 16 VAC on the output side, and might not run motors before 1923 (before the super motor) that well as they generally need higher voltage to run.
@Rob English posted:Pshaw ... after 30 years you pick some stuff up.... yes, I have been working with Bruce. Studying, photographing, proofing chapters, etc. My way of giving back. I got involved to correct some misinformation, ended up learning a bunch!
That's awesome... 👍
Mark in Oregon
Strummer,
there are also a few Facebook forums that talk about standard gauge that you may like and learn from as well. If you have Facebook and you’d like to join these forums make sure to answer the questions before joining. There is also a group called the tinplate times on Facebook that posts photos/videos of tinplate trains, both standard gauge and o but mostly standard. You can’t post on that page but there’s plenty of wonderful information on there.
Trainfam
Thanks
I'm following "tinplate times"... 👍
Mark in Oregon
HAPPY 4th of July!
Dont try to take it all in at once... there is A LOT there!
I will Rob, thanks.
I noticed you were mentioned in the acknowledgements... very cool.👍 😊
Mark in Oregon
Have you considered joining the TCA? Lots of good info in the Library.
If you are able to travel consider going to York Pennsylvania to attend York train show. It’s held both in April and October. York’s a great place to learn and buy tinplate.
Trainfam
...another observation/update:
Ordered and received an oval of USA track (thanks, Kirk!); opted for the 57" curves, as I figure that's plenty big enough for whatever I might obtain in the future. Very nice, heavy gauge stuff that fits together nicely.
Running my few examples (33,10 and 318) I am struck by how quiet these old things are; I suppose electric motors shouldn't make much noise, but am still surprised and impressed.
Will begin the restoring process of the 318 soon...
Mark in Oregon
3 months since my last post here, and almost 6 months since I started this thread. I've really enjoyed playing around and working with this approach to model trains; have learned a lot (thanks to a bunch of you) and expect this project to continue...at least for a while! 😊
I really like the size, colors and the hefty construction of this stuff; a completely different world from the smaller scales/gauges. Even full-on O scale now seems (almost) small. 😳
The idea of playing with items close to a century old has a great deal of appeal; the fact that these motors can still be made to run (and run well) is very cool.
Love the track; thanks for pointing me in the direction of Kirk & company (I hope he sees this!)
Hope to obtain a station and perhaps some other things, although I still have to research what was made; haven't gotten that far into the magnificent Greenberg book...yet.
Anyway, thanks again for all the assistance and good advice; chances are there will be more questions in the future!
Mark in Oregon 
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I have been in and out of HO and O 3 rail a couple of times in my life. My dad got us started in standard gauge with a 'restorable' 402 set in 1968. That layout (hovering above the HO and O) was taken down in 1973, and I didn't get another SG layout until about 2009 except for a Christmas loop. The Standard Gauge Module Association was the real impetus for me, and although I started to by SG again in the early 2000's, it really took off about 2010. I spend very little time with the other gauges now, and as a relatively new builder (since 2016), standard gauge consumes all of my model train thoughts. The stuff has such charm, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to build a few new items to expand on what Lionel, Ives, American Flyer and Dorfan made in the 20's and 30's.
There is a great standard gauge community that has built and strengthened based on being able to run these awesome trains on 50 to 80 foot long layouts with train lengths unheard of in the past, a lot of fun.
MTH and to an extent, modern Lionel, get a lot of credit for keeping standard gauge vibrant. So many shiny new trains, reproductions and new paint schemes, some locos that only one were built now got produced (Lionel super 381 and the brute for example). Almost none of us could own an original Ives Prosperity set, but a pretty awesome and shiny reproduction could be had for a small fraction of the price.
There are still folks making parts, Henning's Trains for wheels, Joe Mania for all the shiny brass and chrome parts and many more, MTH still with some stock of parts (getting a little spotty) and a number of experts out there to do repairs, you can kill the stuff.
So I'm optimistic about the future of standard gauge, a lot of trains out there, we will see many handed down from older train guys to the new folks, Kirk Lindvig and Chris Bogus at USA Track still making the best track you can buy, Ross making some very nice switches. Dallee about to come out with a new transformer that will be adequate for the more power hungry trains.
And a growing group of us that are not afraid to repair, restore, modify, or build new and unique examples to suit our own tastes.
Jim
@Strummer posted:Hope to obtain a station and perhaps some other things, although I still have to research what was made; haven't gotten that far into the magnificent Greenberg book...yet.
Sounds great, Mark. But just remember that Lionel is not the whole of SG. Flyer, IVES, and even Dorfan made great accessories, too (not to mention trains 
).
And for heavens sake, DON'T buy the TM Books and Video DVD of Celebrity Layouts- Tom Snyder, or their Tinplate Legends 2 DVD- featuring Dave Corbett, or Tinplate Legends 3 DVD with Ron De Santis' collection...
I now have TWO Standard Gauge Layouts in our home (one is in its own dedicated room), currently The VintageHubby is building a THIRD Standard Gauge/Wide Gauge Layout in the large area of our Basement.
one- Main Floor
two- Upstairs
three- Basement
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@Strummer posted:I decided to try this:
Now this unit is not overly popular with the O gauge crowd; it's my understanding that there's something about the "sine wave" that makes this a little "harsh" when running can-motored locos. I find it does lack low speed control on those types of engines.
However, with open-framed locos, like the post war S gauge steamers I have, it's great and it also seems to run the Standard Gauge "33" and "10" very nicely. I suspect it will handle the "318" (arriving sometime next week) as well.
Hoping everyone is having a pleasant weekend.
Mark in Oregon
I run all of my Standard Gauge/Wide Gauge trains old and new on MTH Z4000s. All of the lights, buildings & accessories upstairs are run on original ZW, KW, and LW transformers.
@Strummer posted:3 months since my last post here, and almost 6 months since I started this thread. I've really enjoyed playing around and working with this approach to model trains; have learned a lot (thanks to a bunch of you) and expect this project to continue...at least for a while! 😊
I really like the size, colors and the hefty construction of this stuff; a completely different world from the smaller scales/gauges. Even full-on O scale now seems (almost) small. 😳
The idea of playing with items close to a century old has a great deal of appeal; the fact that these motors can still be made to run (and run well) is very cool.
Love the track; thanks for pointing me in the direction of Kirk & company (I hope he sees this!)
Hope to obtain a station and perhaps some other things, although I still have to research what was made; haven't gotten that far into the magnificent Greenberg book...yet.
Anyway, thanks again for all the assistance and good advice; chances are there will be more questions in the future!
Mark in Oregon
Strummer, what did Santa bring for Xmas 2022??
