I have the DCS Premium App on my android phone. I have been thinking about getting an IPad to use the LCS system because that seems to be designed around Apple Products(I think they made the mistake doing that, android is used as much if not more than apple). Only problem I have had is one time not being able to control my N&W 611 because it seemed to have lost connection to the WIU, but they could be the distance that the WIU is from my wireless router, luckily I just recently put in a toggle switch that just controls track power so I was able to keep it from crashing into rolling stock on my layout. I look at the DCS Remote as much as I at look at my phone screen controlling my layout. In my opinion, you look at the screen or button layout as much using both methods DCS Remote or the DCS app. I have not noticed any huge difference between using the two styles of control.
"android is used as much if not more than apple)."
Not true of tablets, I believe, only of phones. iPads may well outnumber Android tablets in actual use. In any case, whatever you are used to tends to be what you think is most wonderful 
. One thing for certain, iOS devices work well with Mac computers because they are designed around the same platform, unlike Android (Google) and Windows computers, which are made by competing vendors who don't always work and play as nicely together as one single vendor, in my experience.
Since both platforms are supported, it seems unfair to blame any deficiencies, real or imagined, of the Android platform, on support for the iOS system. The latter is considered easier to program for and easier to integrate with desktop operating systems by many developers. Some of the limitations of the Android app may simply be inherent in these issues from what I'm told by those who should know.
Guys,
Late to this thread but as retired tech guy I felt the "need to add my 2 cents worth !
I Hope MTS and Lionel do not ever give up handheld units. Both DCS and Legacy are great. I have to give the tech edge to MTH on the DCS right now. As far as the apps and the use of cell phones and tablets. Currently Lionel is easier to implement. I saw and worked with the MTH system at Trainfest and implementation is complicated and pc based. Lionel Blue tooth seems easy implementation.
I have both Lionel TMCC/ Legacy and MTH DCS running on my layout. I and my operators ( grandkids) use the handhelds and love them. Hand units are lot cheaper to use that buying extra smartphones!
I guess, in a perfect world, Lionel and MTH can keep both. Just like analog option. Not everyone will want to use cell phones to run their layouts.
I wonder how the "radio control" Lionel Chief Plus figures into the equation? It is simple to set up and use. Minutes to get it running and intuitive for kids and old folks !
I am going to add a couple of Lionel Chief Plus engines to my layout for the under 5 year old "operators."
Hopefully the manufactures read all these treads on this wonderful forum.
Tom
I just watched a video from a guy in Canada that is offering the Wristrack, a mount for your iPhone that wraps around your forearm. I'd get one if he offered it for the IPad.
Gentlemen,
I have been super High Tech all my life, however I do not want to control my O Gauge Rail Road trains via my phone. I like my Hand Held remote controllers and want to run in that manner. It will not make me a happy camper if MTH eliminates the parts and the Hand Held remotes in the future. I in no way want to control my train layout via wifi.
There must be many many more like me in the Hobby.
PCRR/Dave
It makes no difference to me if I control my trains via a proprietary handheld device or a handheld device running an app.
Actually, I'm already doing it. I have DCS and TMCC for my remaining 3-rail engines and handheld 2.4Ghz transmitters (from RCS Australia) and an IPad for my battery-powered, 2-rail engines using Deltang or BlueRail receivers.
Frankly I'd like to see MTH and Lionel get out of the command control manufacturing business, thus (hopefully) reducing the cost of their engines or at least applying the money spent on it to better uses.
It wasn't long ago people griped about going from conventional control to command control (me included), but the times they are a changing (ought to write a song about it 
.
I ordered a couple more thumbwheels in case I need them. 
I'm with PCRR Dave on this! I don't like to admit this but my camera has not seen much use since I got my iPhone. I think my remotes will have a much better chance of a long life.
I too agree with PCRR/Dave, no reason not to keep the hand held remotes.
Unless they want to "save money" and make the user supply the remote. Then when something isn't working the train manufacture's first response will be it must be You ( Your phone, your wifi, etc) that is the problem. Could not be their product.
Hope they keep the hand held, would have to consider something else if they eliminate them.
Tom
I don't blame MTH for wanting to pull the production of the of the DCS remote. Asking them to continue to produce a product that has been replaced with something newer that performs the same tasks and keeping all of these older production assemblies running for a small percentage of people who want them is not cost feasible.
I would love it if my new Ford Explorer had an old style shaft radio instead of this nifty flat screen panel that controls all of the radio functions. The shaft radio was much simpler and did everything I wanted. Unfortunately, Ford decided that for the extremely few shaft radios they would sell (plus how it would probable hurt their image by just offering them) is not cost feasible to offer the old technology anymore.
Like it or not, MTH needs to update there technology and leave some older stuff behind as we move forward. We were willing to embrace DCS command control years ago, and later on demanded that MTH improve and upgrade the remote, now that they have delivered we don't want it and want them to keep old (expensive) remotes in production to satisfy a few older operators preference.
I'm not sure how old the posters who are lobbying for MTH to keep the old remotes, but I'll assume that they are over or very near retirement age. If MTH keeps building these old remotes for the next 20 years just so that a few people can replace them year after year, there's a chance these users won't be around to buy them and MTH may go bankrupt trying to sell them. If Ford never changed the Explorer since the 2000 model year, I would never have bought a new one two years ago and I don't think Ford would be very viable anymore by trying to market and produce a 17 year old product. Especially when they already have a modern product to replace it that is much more competitive and incorporates modern technology that is in demand.
Interesting comment byH1000. Seems to me that the knowledgeable folks on this forum are the more experienced ones. Some of the folks that figured out how to make this stuff work and explain it to all. Anyway the tecky generation is working to replace all our current stuff with blue tooth. They are also forecasting the end of the car as we know it. Being old does have some pluses.
I have a real problem with the "one size fits all" crowd in general.
"Being old does have some pluses." Name a few practical ones please. Speaking as someone who clearly classifies in that category, other than perhaps wisdom and patience, being old is mostly a disadvantage, speaking personally.
There's no inherent reason any of these technologies cannot employ a physical remote. MTH just doesn't wish to provide one in the future.
Lionel does. It's best selling line, their sets, contain a physical remote in each and command control of the included loco using that remote, as well as Bluetooth for use of the loco with their universal remote. Dirt cheap. $40 street price.
Their separate sale locos, LionChief+ and Legacy, all can be used without change with this universal remote, or the remote that comes with LionChief+ locos or with the Legacy system. You cannot use the LionChief or LionChief+ locos with the Legacy remote, but they all come with a physical remote from the getgo. You can also operate any of these locos using Bluetooth and your phone/tablet if that's your preference. In summary, Lionel has mentioned no intention of getting rid of physical remotes. To the contrary. They are providing lots of options, in addition to conventional, obviously. Seems clear which way to go, if a physical remote is your strong preference for command control.
I understand the need for new technology when it works better than the previous, But so far this is not better. I now need 2 hands and I have to look at the screen, not the trains. There is no more feel between me and the train. The only weak link in the old remote for me is the difficulty of taking it apart.
Now if the remote has a track diagram screen too control switch tracks, That would be better technology. This offers me a short list of fine print.
I still like my remote, subject to change
Clem k
Lets say i buy into this new tech, i most likely won't. Can i buy a phone without phone service and still use it to run trains? I checked into an I phone but you have a contract and pay each month for service. I asked the sales person how much if i wanted just the phone. $1000.00. He suggested a I pod for what i was wanting to do. Not cheap either.
Well, you can run the phone without phone service, I have several older phones retired from use that work fine for the MTH WiFi unit. I have an old Droid 2 and a couple of Samsung Note 2 models, they all work just fine.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, you can run the phone without phone service, I have several older phones retired from use that work fine for the MTH WiFi unit. I have an old Droid 2 and a couple of Samsung Note 2 models, they all work just fine.
Thanks John. Used phones should be easy to find. I'm just not sure i want to give up the remote but there may come a time when one has no choice.
H1000 posted:I don't blame MTH for wanting to pull the production of the of the DCS remote. Asking them to continue to produce a product that has been replaced with something newer that performs the same tasks and keeping all of these older production assemblies running for a small percentage of people who want them is not cost feasible.
Alas, sadly it doesn't replace our current stone age remote at all. Right now these antiques run three TIU's and 6 throttles via three Z-4000 Remote Commanders. After a few times any guest can operate the remote in the dark during night time running via feel.
With an app on a phone or tablet we would to now purchase 5 of them because no guest wants to come over and watch you run trains. We'll have to purchase 3 WiFi units because we'll lose the ability to contact the TIU's. And worst of all, we'll lose the ability to remotely control the Z-4000's via the Remote Commander boxes.
MTH can still make the remotes, heck not long after Lionel said they could no longer make TMCC Cab1's out came the slightly refined Legacy "Cab1Light" unit. At first with the TIU MTH was ahead of Lionel and its myriad of add on boxes to control things. Looks like MTH just surpassed Lionel...
feet posted:Lets say i buy into this new tech, i most likely won't. Can i buy a phone without phone service and still use it to run trains? I checked into an I phone but you have a contract and pay each month for service. I asked the sales person how much if i wanted just the phone. $1000.00. He suggested a I pod for what i was wanting to do. Not cheap either.
Yes: I am running my layout with no phone service. When a phone is turned off by the phone company it still works. All the features work. internet, clock, weather and 911 service.
I am using a used phone. Got the phone for free, just for my train room. The only cost was the MTH DCS WiFi Unit • $150.00, with the APP. A lot of model train fun at a reasonable price.
Gary; Checking out the future of model railroading.
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The Z4000 falls into the category of needing an update, badly. It's a great transformer but it was designed without the TIU or PS2 & PS3 in mind. The DCS remote was adapted o operate with the receiver which worked out well. I hope there would be a way to use the 9 pin interface on the Z4000 receiver to communicate with the TIU somehow and restore remote control of the Z4000.
I suspect we should be seeing some revamped transformers coming from MTH in the next few years. The aging Z4000 and its PS1 controls need to get refreshed.
trainroomgary posted:feet posted:Lets say i buy into this new tech, i most likely won't. Can i buy a phone without phone service and still use it to run trains? I checked into an I phone but you have a contract and pay each month for service. I asked the sales person how much if i wanted just the phone. $1000.00. He suggested a I pod for what i was wanting to do. Not cheap either.
Yes: I am running my layout with no phone service. When a phone is turned off by the phone company it still works. All the features work. internet, clock, weather and 911 service.
I am using a used phone. Got the phone for free, just for my train room. The only cost was the MTH DCS WiFi Unit • $150.00, with the APP. A lot of model train fun at a reasonable price.
Gary; Checking out the future of model railroading.
What I don't understand is:
A: How is the MTH app is supposed to control Lionel Legacy and TMCC locomotives better than the actual Lionel Legacy / TMCC system?
B: If MTH can make an app that controls Lionel Trains, than why can't Lionel make an app that controls MTH Trains? (would that be of subject to copyright)?
@T1Titan_ZachF posted.What I don't understand is:
A: How is the MTH app is supposed to control Lionel Legacy and TMCC locomotives better than the actual Lionel Legacy / TMCC system?
B: If MTH can make an app that controls Lionel Trains, than why can't Lionel make an app that controls MTH Trains? (would that be of subject to copyright)?
Hi Zach: If Barry see this, he should answer this question. I learned MTH DCS -WiFi from Mike Wolf at my local hobby shop.
Mike is on tour, he may be in your area. Sign up for the MTH Newsletter, to see where he is and other MTH Executives are doing live demos.
Gary: Having model train fun, learning MTH • DCS WiFi.
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@T1Titan_ZachF posted:trainroomgary posted:feet posted:Lets say i buy into this new tech, i most likely won't. Can i buy a phone without phone service and still use it to run trains? I checked into an I phone but you have a contract and pay each month for service. I asked the sales person how much if i wanted just the phone. $1000.00. He suggested a I pod for what i was wanting to do. Not cheap either.
Yes: I am running my layout with no phone service. When a phone is turned off by the phone company it still works. All the features work. internet, clock, weather and 911 service.
I am using a used phone. Got the phone for free, just for my train room. The only cost was the MTH DCS WiFi Unit • $150.00, with the APP. A lot of model train fun at a reasonable price.
Gary; Checking out the future of model railroading.
What I don't understand is:
A: How is the MTH app is supposed to control Lionel Legacy and TMCC locomotives better than the actual Lionel Legacy / TMCC system? Who said anything about better? The fact I can walk around with my Iphone and control trains without bulky remotes is good enough for me. The APP can't do everything the Legacy remote can do, for now. The future? Who knows
B: If MTH can make an app that controls Lionel Trains, than why can't Lionel make an app that controls MTH Trains? (would that be of subject to copyright)? Lionel has released the code for Legacy and TMCC where MTH has not. Fair? No but it's business and each have their reasons.
Have to agree with Clem. I am and have been a professional tech guy and always say tech where and where appropriate. In the case of the cell phone and tablet apps, they are just an automation not an innovation. The handhelds allow you to watch your trains. You feel the controls, wheels buttons, etc.
You do not feel anything but the screen with the apps stuff, and have to look down at them more often.
I just hope MTH and Lionel keep the hand held units along with conventional control and apps for those that want them. I said it before, when the train is not responding to your commands via the app, is it the phone/tablet, your wifi, router? cable service or the manufactures engine? You know when you call for tech support what the manufacture is going to say...
Tom Q Fan posted:Have to agree with Clem. I am and have been a professional tech guy and always say tech where and where appropriate. In the case of the cell phone and tablet apps, they are just an automation not an innovation. The handhelds allow you to watch your trains. You feel the controls, wheels buttons, etc.
You do not feel anything but the screen with the apps stuff, and have to look down at them more often.
I just hope MTH and Lionel keep the hand held units along with conventional control and apps for those that want them. I said it before, when the train is not responding to your commands via the app, is it the phone/tablet, your wifi, router? cable service or the manufactures engine? You know when you call for tech support what the manufacture is going to say...
Good insights! I have a small 9'x3 switching layout, so for me slow speed and quick control of the trains is essential. With the handheld I can quickly add and take off the speed without having to look down, and now my brain knows exactly where each key is located on the remote, simply by touch. So during an operating session, my eyes are glued to the layout and trains. Hard to emulate that user experience using a mobile phone or tablet. All for innovation, but the solid experience and interaction between the engineer and the train using the DCS remote has proven to be quite successful for all these years and most likely could continue well into the future.
@T1Titan_ZachF posted:What I don't understand is:
A: How is the MTH app is supposed to control Lionel Legacy and TMCC locomotives better than the actual Lionel Legacy / TMCC system?
B: If MTH can make an app that controls Lionel Trains, than why can't Lionel make an app that controls MTH Trains? (would that be of subject to copyright)?
A: It doesn't. That's baloney. You get some Legacy functions, but you don't get all the access to various lighting features, etc.
B: Lionel has released the Legacy protocol specification, MTH has not.
The code for TMCC is open, i.e. released by Lionel. The code for MTH is closed, not available. That's the big difference.
H1000 posted:The Z4000 falls into the category of needing an update, badly. It's a great transformer but it was designed without the TIU or PS2 & PS3 in mind. The DCS remote was adapted o operate with the receiver which worked out well. I hope there would be a way to use the 9 pin interface on the Z4000 receiver to communicate with the TIU somehow and restore remote control of the Z4000.
I suspect we should be seeing some revamped transformers coming from MTH in the next few years. The aging Z4000 and its PS1 controls need to get refreshed.
The Z4000 with the Remote Commander plugged in seems to have instantaneous breaker tripping that appears to be quicker that the Z4000 by itself.
We own PS1 locomotives like many of our friends do and would never want to lose the easy programming or resets for these locomotives that is built in the Z4000.
How many folks have arrived at the same spot we have: enough Z4000 transformer(s) power for the current and future motive power and accessories, enough remotes and TIUs,AIUs, etc. to do the same?
In other words "Upgrades? We don't need no stinkin' upgrades!"
Sooner or later there isn't anything left to get to make it all run right.
BobbyD posted:H1000 posted:The Z4000 falls into the category of needing an update, badly. It's a great transformer but it was designed without the TIU or PS2 & PS3 in mind. The DCS remote was adapted o operate with the receiver which worked out well. I hope there would be a way to use the 9 pin interface on the Z4000 receiver to communicate with the TIU somehow and restore remote control of the Z4000.
I suspect we should be seeing some revamped transformers coming from MTH in the next few years. The aging Z4000 and its PS1 controls need to get refreshed.
The Z4000 with the Remote Commander plugged in seems to have instantaneous breaker tripping that appears to be quicker that the Z4000 by itself.
We own PS1 locomotives like many of our friends do and would never want to lose the easy programming or resets for these locomotives that is built in the Z4000.
That's great but why should MTH continue to build a PS1 specific product to support a product that makes up less than 10% or engines that MTH has ever sold for a very small group of users that are slowly diminishing. We can't expect these companies to continue to maintain production facilities for products that have features in low demand to keep a few people happy for rest of their lives.
I believe that MTH has not updated the Z4000 because of the increase in R&D and retooling costs associated with making a new product that will essentially do same thing... provide power. The demand for a revamped Z4000 hasn't been that great and there isn't much room for a wow factor when it comes to redesigning the transformer. I'd be looking for app integration and a way to have the transformer resume previous voltage level when it is turned on... nothing spectacular.
But to me it's kind of depressing to see new Z4000's with the remote port on them and no way to use it unless you already own stuff that MTH made years ago. It is also depressing to see the PS1 specific controls for locomotives that MTH produces over 17 years ago and will never be used on anything they (or anyone else) will make in the future. My nephew asked why the Z4000 had these extra programming buttons, and I told him that it is for PS1 engines made before he was born.
BobbyD posted:H1000 posted:The Z4000 falls into the category of needing an update, badly. It's a great transformer but it was designed without the TIU or PS2 & PS3 in mind. The DCS remote was adapted o operate with the receiver which worked out well. I hope there would be a way to use the 9 pin interface on the Z4000 receiver to communicate with the TIU somehow and restore remote control of the Z4000.
I suspect we should be seeing some revamped transformers coming from MTH in the next few years. The aging Z4000 and its PS1 controls need to get refreshed.
The Z4000 with the Remote Commander plugged in seems to have instantaneous breaker tripping that appears to be quicker that the Z4000 by itself.
We own PS1 locomotives like many of our friends do and would never want to lose the easy programming or resets for these locomotives that is built in the Z4000.
Setting the Z4000 using the remote gives one 8 amps max, while dialing it up with the handles gives one 10 amps before the breaker throws. Don't know why there is a difference.
Kerrigan posted:BobbyD posted:H1000 posted:The Z4000 falls into the category of needing an update, badly. It's a great transformer but it was designed without the TIU or PS2 & PS3 in mind. The DCS remote was adapted o operate with the receiver which worked out well. I hope there would be a way to use the 9 pin interface on the Z4000 receiver to communicate with the TIU somehow and restore remote control of the Z4000.
I suspect we should be seeing some revamped transformers coming from MTH in the next few years. The aging Z4000 and its PS1 controls need to get refreshed.
The Z4000 with the Remote Commander plugged in seems to have instantaneous breaker tripping that appears to be quicker that the Z4000 by itself.
We own PS1 locomotives like many of our friends do and would never want to lose the easy programming or resets for these locomotives that is built in the Z4000.
Setting the Z4000 using the remote gives one 8 amps max, while dialing it up with the handles gives one 10 amps before the breaker throws. Don't know why there is a difference.
That's interesting...
I have also noticed that the voltage readout on the remote & transformer is not always the same as what is at the terminals on the back. 16 volts reads as 17.5 on my meter, but it never gets over 22 at max position.
Kerrigan posted:BobbyD posted:H1000 posted:The Z4000 falls into the category of needing an update, badly. It's a great transformer but it was designed without the TIU or PS2 & PS3 in mind. The DCS remote was adapted o operate with the receiver which worked out well. I hope there would be a way to use the 9 pin interface on the Z4000 receiver to communicate with the TIU somehow and restore remote control of the Z4000.
I suspect we should be seeing some revamped transformers coming from MTH in the next few years. The aging Z4000 and its PS1 controls need to get refreshed.
The Z4000 with the Remote Commander plugged in seems to have instantaneous breaker tripping that appears to be quicker that the Z4000 by itself.
We own PS1 locomotives like many of our friends do and would never want to lose the easy programming or resets for these locomotives that is built in the Z4000.
Setting the Z4000 using the remote gives one 8 amps max, while dialing it up with the handles gives one 10 amps before the breaker throws. Don't know why there is a difference.
Never paid much attention to that, and in the remote mode you don't get to see the amp load, just know that with the receiver plugged in the tripping is almost instantaneous.
Just velcro a remote to the layout and use it to operate Z4K Tracks. Problem solved.
Barry Broskowitz posted:Just velcro a remote to the layout and use it to operate Z4K Tracks. Problem solved.
Doesn't work that well when the remotes are discontinued and not available, note the subject of the thread.
I don't agree with the idea that time and technology march on and old stuff doesn't need to be supported any longer. Anybody remember the now defunct Sega game systems? They didn't think supporting previous systems was important, either. The model train hobby is a fairly small group of people who run everything from pre-war to modern. Because the hobby has such a long history and much of the equipment still operable, it would seem to be in the best interests of the manufacturers to make their new systems as backward compatible as possible, and to offer as many options as possible.
To say that young people are so infatuated with their cell phones they won't do model trains unless they can be run from their phones is rather insulting to these same young people. The actual method of operation, I believe, has little to do with new people getting into this hobby. They either want model trains or they don't. Frankly, the cost of getting into and expanding on the initial investment is probably the biggest hurdle; model trains ain't cheap. BTW; I see lots of young people every weekend flying their drones, which have become immensely popular. And every person I see is using a handheld remote control to fly those things.
So, yes, there is room for conventional transformer operation, handheld remotes and cell phones. It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition.
Okay, I was not too thrilled about using a phone or an iPad to control my trains, but I'll wave the white flag. I can see the future.
I'll have to get up to speed on what is required, and I guess I'll add the equipment during the next 12 months. No sense to be the last man standing with a remote.
John,
Doesn't work that well when the remotes are discontinued and not available, note the subject of the thread.
I'm sticking with my BPRC stuff, I just converted an Atlas F3 from TMCC/ERR to BPRC.
Here's a photo showing the components before I wired them in:
9.6v 200Mah battery, Deltang Rx65b sitting on top, and a BIK-U3B on/off switch with charging jack on the right. I use a RCS Tx3 transmitter to run the trains:
No smoke or sound, yet. I'm hoping someone will offer something in the future but if it doesn't happen I'm happy. Been running BPRC for over 2 years now with ZERO problems.
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Bob Delbridge posted:I'm sticking with my BPRC stuff, I just converted an Atlas F3 from TMCC/ERR to BPRC.
...No smoke or sound, yet. I'm hoping someone will offer something in the future but if it doesn't happen I'm happy. Been running BPRC for over 2 years now with ZERO problems.
Sorry Bob, that's a non starter for me! The great sound and smoke effects really add to the experience, at least they do for me and most of the folks I run across.
