The New Greenberg Tinplate Series

Happy Pappy,

 

I'd heard some rumors about this.  Where did you see the announcement about the books?  I'm not a Lionel collector, but they will definitely be on my list to own.  They may seem pricey, but when you consider what some of the other books about tinplate that are out of print are going for it doesn't seem out of line.  I can only imagine what they will do when they are out of print.

 

Greg

I will be purchasing both books. 

 

Although prewar is not my major area of interest in the hobby, I did work with Bruce Greenberg for some years and I am quite familiar with the scholarly approach he follows in researching his topics.  I know that he also assembled a group of the foremost names in prewar Lionel collecting to assist in compiling accurate and comprehensive data for these books. 

 

I firmly and sincerely believe that these volumes will be THE definitive works related to their respective areas of Lionel prewar production.

I was excited when I saw the announcement.  not so much when I saw the price!

I'd say that I would try to find these on the second-market in a year or so after publication, but I doubt they would be easy to find.

You are so very WRONG in that statement, and so obviously lacking in knowledge of the products you're referring to that it's not even worth further comment.

Mc Comas' books are fun and anecdotal...Greenberg's are more in depth studies..more factual.  The new books will hopefully correct a lot of errors previously printed and omitted info.  There has been a series of meetings at the homes of Greenberg and others.  Many collectors were invited to bring examples of 400E's, 392E's, passenger cars, etc.  The examples were lined up next to each other on tables, and variations noted to try to deduce manufacturing processes and timelines.  Perhaps, the boys are milking the price a bit, but then again, this hobby is a CASH COW for the more entrepreneurial among us!!!  Ron B.

The new book on Standard Gauge will be 448 pages. It will be as Allan mentioned the definitive book on these trains. Much new material.

Wayne

 

I saw the advert on the back of the current TCA newsletter. It reads "page proofs available april 24". Another perk for being a TCA member.

Starting several years ago, Bruce Greenberg has been casting a wide net to get as many collectors involved as possible, hosting seminars in several locations including at most of the recent Yorks, getting a lot of people to bring in their trains and compare, to try to flush out as many facts and refinements as possible. There's going to be a lot of new information in this upcoming Standard Gauge volume.

 

Might be some guys you recognize here: this process started back in 2012 or before.

 

 

 

 

GREENBERG BOOKS go to every auction with me...they end up getting passed from seat to seat...HA!  Consider that the great PIONEER collectors(Alexander, Brasher, Redman,Kimball) did not have any books in their respective HAYDAYS!!!

Committed to a preorder for this book at Bruce's table in Orange Hall last York. I am very much anticipating getting my copy. A C-note for a book of this size, scope, and beaucoup color photos is a bargain.

 

I continue to be amazed that folks will spend thousands on trains, but not make the relatively modest investment in key literature to go about it intelligently.

 

Bob

In my opinion these are absolutely must have books and I already have a shelf full of tinplate publications. How and where can we pre-order or order these well researched  volumes?

John and OKHIKER the ordering information is on the back page of the TCA Headquarters News. The phone #is 703-461-6991 or brucecgreenberg1@gmail.com

Wayne

The same thing happens in the old car hobby. The folks who collect and rebuild old Studebakers have the best shop manuals and parts manuals in the industry, reprinted for them. Almost no one buys them, preferring to ask for (bad) advice online instead. It makes no sense to me.

I emailed Bruce the other day about the book.  Below is his email to me

 

Mark,

Thank you for your  note and desire to purchase the book. At York, I will have page proofs of at least half of the book.

I expect to ship the book in late June.

When the book is available to ship, I will write or call people who would like to buy the book.

I will send you an email with request for payment at the pre-publication price of $100 including shipping.

I look forward to seeing you at York.

Best wishes,

Bruce

I'm a history nut.....and I'll get them.

 

Peter

I have seen a couple of sample pages for the initial book and any serious collector will consider these books to be a bargain. 

 

I have the TM books from their original printing, and several of the older Greenberg books, and have to agree with the descriptions above. The TM books are aimed more at the mass market, or casual collector, and a great introduction. The Greenberg books are a reference work. Both are great for what they are, but they are not comparable, nor are the Greenberg books reworked versions of the TM books.

Seafoid,

You're so correct. These books will outshine his last book written by D. McEntarfer. Which was released again around 1995. It covered all prewar Lionel sets, both Std & O-Gauge. It's my understanding that Mr. Greenberg wanted to redo the original by Mr. McEntarfer. The author declined because his main interest has always been Ives. We in the hobby will benefit all the way around.

I also own everyone of the TM books. Sure they were good in their time, however, that was years ago. 

I also had the chance to review certain press proof pages of Bruce's new prewar book.  The only word I can use to describe this work of art is:  masterpiece.  Those who obtain this book will see that the study of prewar trains has been taken to an entirely new level. 

 

Bob Osterhoff

www.trainpaper.com

Well after you insulted me maybe I should forward you photos of a Greenberg book that uses all of the photo's from the TM books??? Better do YOUR homework. 

 

Each time a new or old author publishes a new book then information gets better. Because we learn more and people add more to the conversation. I personally never like Greenberg's books. They had little to offer above what was already published elsewhere. The price guides are always miles off target so I stopped buying them too. Hopefully these new books will be better and contain more information, for $100 a pop. Saying that Greenberg's uses collectors to come together and pool information is moot as all of the publishers do the same thing. None of therm would get anything published if not for the collective knowledge of all of us. This was no different than what they did in the earliest publication from TM etc. Greenberg's back then was a new company and they piggybacked a ton of info. But there will be doubters and I will provide proof, see below. Greenbergs on the left and TM on the right.

 

 

 

 

Gandy

After speaking with Bruce and also after reading the several articles about the collector "study groups" in the TCA Quarterly, I believe this will be the definitive and scholarly version of all previous pre-war studies.

 

Lots of pages and illustrations on quality paper - $100 sounds like a bargain to me!

It is important to acknowledge that ALL such reference guides contain omissions and errors, and that continuing research and scholarship will hopefully correct these issues.

 

We may never know ALL the facts of actual production a century or more ago in an age that relied on paper records.

 

Bruce and his collector "study group" have endeavored to add to our present knowledge and that is a GOOD thing! 

I sent my preorder request. Considering how much the older out of date books sell for, this should be a bargain for us newer to standard gauge needing good reference material. Is Arno's book next????

 

Steve

 

Can the book(s) be preordered online?

I misplaced my National Headquarters news packet.

You can e-mail Bruce at brucegreenberg1 [at symbol] gmail.com

 

He will also have page proofs available on April 24 at the TCA York Meet:  Orange Hall, Row O, Tables 1-3

Bruce e-mailed me back with page proofs and said he would e-mail again when the book comes out.

 

E- mailed to order book.

I concur with Mr. Bubeck regarding his statement about the bewildering reluctance of some people to invest in research material. I'm forever answering questions about which railroad operated this locomotive or owned that freight car. I typically followed up my answers with the suggestion of investing in books, videos or other materials targeted at areas of interest to whom I was speaking. More often than not, my suggestion would be met with little interest. As stated above, these folks spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on models yet they won't spend $50 on a book which, at least to me, would greatly enhance their enjoyment of the hobby. Oh well,to each their own I guess.

 

I suspect the new Greenberg series will offer superb value for the price.

 

Bob   

And very often "ringers" too.

I've had the fortune of working with Bruce for the past two years photographing the images for the book and helping catalog new variations. I can safely say we've taken 50,000+ photographs of every item we could come across from multiple angles, interiors and exteriors. Doing so has uncovered a lot of neat things and helped us identify a lot of clues which have given Bruce a lot of insights into early Lionel production techniques.  I think any tinplate fan will be pleased with the new book.   

Bob O is correct, Bruce has done seminal work for this book.  Yes,  the early edition had the some of the same photos, probably offered by the same photographer to both parties... but that is where the similarities end. Bruce has researched a lot of new information and done has level best to verify it prior to presentation.  He also has hundreds of new photos and details. I assure you he gives credit where it is due.

 

I can't wait for this book.... and for the o gauge when it follows.

Both Bruce and Bob O have produced the MOST scholarly Lionel historical reference works to date. Bob O's "Fun Factory" book is a particularly thoroughly documented history of the Lionel train manufacturer, bar none! 

I expect to publish the new edition of Greenberg's Guide to Lionel Trains: Volume 1, Standard and 2-7/8" Gauges 1901-1939 in July 2014. The book has 448 pages and includes over 800 new, large, highly detailed photographs. Only three special photographs from the previous edition are included.

The book's text provides a great amount of new information. The only previously published information is the 200 and 500 series freight car chapter by Caryl Pettijohn which is based on his book on the 200 and 500 Series freights and the 2-7/8" Gauge chapter by James Sattler. Mr. Pettijohn's and Mr. Sattler's works are included because of their exceptional quality.

I will have book page proofs at York. My tables are in the Orange Hall. Row O, Tables 1-3. If you would like to see sample pages now, please write brucecgreenberg1@gmail.com

I have also posted a sample page from the new book, "Lionel 318/318E, The Inside Story."

Lionel Prewar Volume 2, O Gauge is several years from publication.

Bruce,

I was hoping that you would pay everyone a visit. I for one appreciate your doing so, Thank you!

 

I'm out here on the left coast. Not able to make York. You can count on my pre-order.Keep up the great work.

RoyBoy just posted a note regarding writing me. The address needs correction My email address is brucecgreenberg1@gmail.com.  The address contains a "c" between bruce and greenberg as well as a 1 after greenberg.  I had to add these complications because another person had already acquired brucegreenberg@gmail.com.

I try to answer every email the day that I receive it.  If you write me and I don't respond, please call me at 703-461-6991.

Bruce