The New Munoz Lines Update 11/6/2016 Williamstown Catenary Photo

Scrapiron,

Glad you're back on the way to replacing the Munoz with another O scale layout.

ron

"THERE WILL BE NO RIDICULOUS IPAD/IPHONE CONTROL"

Agree completely !

OH Boy!  The tales we will be reading as construction proceeds.  This should be good. 

I am glad to see you have started construction, and looking forward to seeing how it progresses!

Already may have read your novel, except I thought it was today's newspaper.  Admire your planning and commitment to whatever you set out to do, but that's right, you were a teacher.  Noblest of professions.

Always wanted the layout you described.  Interested to see how it turns out. 

What, me worry?

Scrapiron,

Is this still going to be the dual-gauge, 2-rail, On30 layout with the NCE DCC control that you were asking about last year?

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

I like the diorama idea and completely agree with the less track more scenery plan.  I have a smallish linear layout (about 32 feet long but narrow) where I attempted to create 4 distinct views.  Having the train appear and then go away gives one the feel of something happening.  I look forward to your progress.  

Scrapiron Scher posted:

It has been a long time coming and a total of about two years since we began dismantling the Munoz Lines. I made a promise to myself to write a novel at some point in my life and the novel is now finished. Although few people, particularly train people, thought taking down the layout to work on a project totally unrelated to trains made any sense at all, train folks would certainly understand that a layout, no matter how big or how small, is a magnetic attraction that instantly hypnotizes and becomes a time sponge. I needed to devote as much time, energy, and brain power to the task of writing a novel.

The story is about how the protagonist and hero, a teacher, is dealing with the idea that the basic fabric of our society has begun to fray at the seems. Schools have forgotten what kids should be learning and the importance of holding children accountable for their actions, religion does not seem to be providing the comfort or safety we have traditionally hoped for and government is filled with narcissistic politicians who are more concerned with enriching themselves than serving America. The novel is called, "En Loco Parentis," Latin for "in the place of parents. I'm very pleased with how it has come out and I hope you all get to read it one day. I am currently searching for a literary agent to represent it.

Here is the scoop on the New Munoz Lines. I am attempting to create something that I, personally, have never seen. The layout will be two levels and will be designed to act as a huge diorama. In other words, each scene will stand on its own and you will not be able to see the rest of the layout from where you are standing with the exception of the steam yard which will be built in the middle. Access/view to the steam yard will be from the edge of one long side and the Kansas City area (left side of the layout). 

The Grand Central Terminal area is going to be located at the end of the last table in Photo 3. The top of Grand Central will be approximately 76" - 80" off of the floor meaning that everyone will have to look up to see it just as you do in NYC. That area will be surrounded by New York scenes, skyscrapers and such. Trains will originated under Grand Central with a two foot section of the underground visible.

The lower level will only be viewed as a twelve foot section diorama style where electric locos (predominantly GG-1's) will run under the most detailed catenary produced in O scale. Although the catenary style is New Haven and not Pennsy, the level of detail the builder I have chosen produces is truly phenomenal. I have always wanted to see my GG-1's run under wire and, though it is NH wire, it will be spectacular. You have my promise. When standing in front of that diorama you will be able to view nothing else (if everyone goes as planned. On the plan drawn in Photo 6, you see on the front two modules a cut out for the twelve foot span. Trains will appear and disappear the way we watch them in real life. This will be a railfan's layout.

The layout will be a complete island so that no wall will be used to support or brace either of the levels. That being the case, I had to design some method of supporting the two levels while standing freestyle. I chose to support the two levels with 2 x 4's. Lower level will be 1/2" birch plywood (not weight bearing) and the upper will be 3/4" AC plywood.

The key is that the basic track plan could not be more simple. There will be very little track and, to me, that is the key. I want the opposite of the spaghetti bowl effect. In real life we usually see one or two tracks. We see a light a mile or so down the line and gradually the train appears and then disappears. We are left with what we started. A track and no trains. So, what will you see? Scenery. Lots and lots of scenery, as detailed as I can make it. You'll hear the trains before you see them. The photos show the modules with only the lower level installed. Yes, there IS a duckunder. If I plan properly, I will have to crawl under very few times. All control for both Legacy, DCS, and operational elements will be automatic, that is, controllable from remotes or actuators on the outside of the layout. THERE WILL BE NO RIDICULOUS IPAD/IPHONE CONTROL. If you want to swipe, text or "Tweet," or otherwise stay connected on Facebook with all of the important information of the world when you visit the Munoz Lines, go outside !!! 

There will be two main lines "underground" and two main lines on the top level. Few sidings and switches. There will be a large steam yard (The interior tables on the plan) as detailed as I can make it. That yard is for me. All angles will be designed for photography. In fact, every angle on the layout will be designed with photography in mind. If I cannot make a great photo from the angle, I will redesign and build over.

Sorry, I have a lot of work to do.

Looking good, Want to come over and finish mine lol    its nice to see you back at work

are you sure you want a duck under? anyway possible for a swing up or down?  will be another nice read as you keep progressing with the build.

I dont suppose we will see an actual track plan?

Many thanks to all for the kind words. With regard to gauge, there will Probably be an On3 K-37 that makes and appearance with several passenger cars in tow. It will be point to point. I have bought lots of two rail equipment and it is going to end up on the shelf for lots of reasons. I was a bit manic, for one. Another is it is virtually impossible to have a diorama style layout and see only three rail or two rail at one time. The two do not mix. 

For a track plan, imagine four ovals. Serious? Yes, four ovals with a couple of sidings and a large steam yard. In a diorama style layout, you only see one loco at a time anyway and only for a brief moment. If the layout is built as I envision, you would not necessarily know it was an oval. In any event, on the last Munoz Lines I had over 40 switches and many sidings. Did I use any of them? Barely. Want to try switching cars in three rail? Here is how to do it.

1: Build a siding with a very strong bumper epoxied in place.

2: Place a car on the siding with its coupler open.

3: Back a very heavy loco into the siding at about 40 scale mph.

4: Presto . . . . . your car is coupled.       If.       If?      Yes, if the couplers work. If not, repeat at 60 mph. Keep repeating by adding 20 scale mph until the car is either coupled, on the floor, destroyed, or on the floor. Did I mention on the floor? That's switching cars in three rail. Perhaps there are wizards out there who can do it realistically at 1 or 2 scale mph but I would have to see that to believe it.

5: Realistic? No, because in the prototypical world, at 40 mph, there would be nothing left of the car.

Happy building!

A very good description of the average O gauge switch maneuver.  How about spotting cars without coil couplers?

Eliot

Looks like a plan and most importantly one you want and understand. BTW it was great, meeting you at Alex's party a few weeks ago.

4. Presto . . . . . your car is coupled.       If.       If?      Yes, if the couplers work. If not, repeat at 60 mph. Keep repeating by adding 20 scale mph until the car is either coupled, on the floor, destroyed, or on the floor. Did I mention on the floor? That's switching cars in three rail. Perhaps there are wizards out there who can do it realistically at 1 or 2 scale mph but I would have to see that to believe it.

With regards to operations and the couplers working/not working try getting a hold or the OGR video #11 which features Bob Bartizeks layout in Cincinnati. At the end of the video he has a clip included which removes the issue for nice easy coupling. Seeing is believing, and last week I visited Bob's layout and he included me in an operating session WOW, what a different aspect. On entering the basement and getting a brief tour, he hands me an assignment sheet. Well to say the least his couplers are really smoooooth!!

Keep posting

Steve

Hurrah! It's always good to see your projects. You are a unique and creative mind. I look forward to your every utterance. This is going to be fun.

FrankM 

 Cannot wait to see the new one.

I'm not sure which project I am more anxious to see first. Congratulations on your drive, determination and talent.

Good luck Eliot. Your novel sounds interesting...

Fantastic news mate. The benchwork looks great, your vision sounds amazing. For it to be even better than the original Munoz, it will certainly be something to behold. I look forward to seeing it in the flesh. Also, looking forward to the book.

A separate question Eliot, concerning the catenary. Can you show me what New Haven style looks like, is the catenary commercially available? I also want to run my collection of GG1's under wire. I don't like the MTH stuff and am not sure about making it, as the wire seems to be a problem.

I'm sure the layout will be a sight to see and look forward to seeing your progress and perhaps getting to see it in person one day.  

Best of luck finding a publisher for your book as well!

-Greg

Looking forward to watching your progress!! It's sure to be another gem. 

From the first paragraph about your novel, it sounds as though you may have read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand as she believed in taking responsibility.   I like you concept.

Dick

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Many thanks to all for the kind words. With regard to gauge, there will Probably be an On3 K-37 that makes and appearance with several passenger cars in tow. It will be point to point. I have bought lots of two rail equipment and it is going to end up on the shelf for lots of reasons. I was a bit manic, for one. Another is it is virtually impossible to have a diorama style layout and see only three rail or two rail at one time. The two do not mix. 

For a track plan, imagine four ovals. Serious? Yes, four ovals with a couple of sidings and a large steam yard. In a diorama style layout, you only see one loco at a time anyway and only for a brief moment. If the layout is built as I envision, you would not necessarily know it was an oval. In any event, on the last Munoz Lines I had over 40 switches and many sidings. Did I use any of them? Barely. Want to try switching cars in three rail? Here is how to do it.

1: Build a siding with a very strong bumper epoxied in place.

2: Place a car on the siding with its coupler open.

3: Back a very heavy loco into the siding at about 40 scale mph.

4: Presto . . . . . your car is coupled.       If.       If?      Yes, if the couplers work. If not, repeat at 60 mph. Keep repeating by adding 20 scale mph until the car is either coupled, on the floor, destroyed, or on the floor. Did I mention on the floor? That's switching cars in three rail. Perhaps there are wizards out there who can do it realistically at 1 or 2 scale mph but I would have to see that to believe it.

5: Realistic? No, because in the prototypical world, at 40 mph, there would be nothing left of the car.

6.  Ditch the Lionel style couplers, and install Kadees, paying close attention to coupler height, and proper trip pin adjustment.  

7.  Switch cars with no further coupler problems. 

Thanks, once again, to all of you for the kind words, encouragement, and suggestions for proper switching/coupling (GNNPNUT). You have to love trains to do these things, yes? I was supposed to have surgery to have a hip replaced on October 27 so my story to wife Ginny is "wow, sweetheart, my hip feels so much better !"

I'm missing the trains so a little motrin and determination and the benchwork is going together. Five modules fairly complete and twelve to go. I'm betting I make it before I'm strapped to the table. I finally figured out how to build the double deck module by myself, although hoisting the plywood is not so easy as it used to be. How come 1/2" plywood is now heavier than 3/4" plywood used to be? Could it be me?

CBQer posted:

From the first paragraph about your novel, it sounds as though you may have read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand as she believed in taking responsibility.   I like you concept.

Dick

Having read about half of Atlas Shrugged, I would have to agree.  It is so long, I put it down to do some lighter reading for a while, before going back.

Eliot,

Looking great so far, keep progress photos coming !!!

Alex

Eliot,

What seems like cross-purposes to me is going back to 2 rail with your stated goals.    You say you want super-detail, accurate scenery, and great photos from any angle.    Well how are you going to disguise the 3rd rail from many of the photo angles?   How are  you going to get track that looks as realistic as you want with the height of typical 3 rail track?    It seems to me  you should be talking Proto-48 - - a step beyond 2 rail to meet the objectives  you describe.   

This is just food for thought, not criticism of 3 rail

Jim

Hurray from Tennessee, I am delighted to hear that Your going to Build another Train Layout!!  Your wit and humor is always good reading. Keep us informed as you make progress and by the way, The pictures of your construction so far is Fantastic.  This will be a nice size layout and will be easier to maintain. Happy Railroading  Cheers!!!

Scrapiron,

So looking forward to this! It's gonna be enjoyable to read your posts on this project. 

not very good pictures but I am putting to good use the used track I bought from you.

Mr. Scher,

I hope you have a lot of fun building the layout. I will be looking for your updates.

Alan Graziano

Thanks to all and I am sorry it has taken me longer to respond than I had hoped. Ten balls juggling at the same time. Thanks Dave, 645, Mark, Alex, PRRJIM, LeapinLarry, LuvTrains, ENICHTER (Hysterical ! Now I am buying back all of that track . . . . I am so crazy), and Alan.

PRRJIM . . . You raise some excellent questions. When I first conceived of what I wanted to do, some time before the entire Munoz Lines was dismantled, I envisioned two rail O and On3. I found, along the way, several interesting things about what I love and what I don't think I am capable of. After carefully researching 2 rail O, I decided I am not really good enough with all of the craftsman issues that I would want to tackle. I am terrible with electricity, I don't really understand DCC very well, I suck at wiring, on and on. With regard to On3, I invested quite a bit in locos and equipment and found that it was too difficult for me to get them to operate the way I prefer. Fortunately, I was able to sell off most of the equipment and break even. Last, and most importantly, the ease of three rail and the enormous amount of three rail trains I have sealed the deal. With regard to photographic issues, I have no intention of hiding the third rail. It is not important to me. The photos I produced of the last Munoz Lines were very satisfying and I am confident I will be able to do even better.

More benchwork has been finished and my Grand Central Terminal base came in today from Trainworxx. It is simply stupendous. I will post more photos as soon as a significant amount of more work is done.

We're now in week three and eleven of the seventeen first level modules have been completed. Each of the eleven will have an upper level (yet to be added) and you can see the framing/bracing for the upper level where the backdrop will go has been started. Four modules will be added to the center where the steam yard will be. Starting from the top photo are shots from week one working down to week two and then week three. In the middle of everything, Harry Heike's coaling tower arrived and I had to put that out. It is too magnificent to leave in the box.

Why are you putting a fence around the top edges.

That's not a fence, Eddie. That's the bottom of the frame for the second level. 

Wow....this looks and sounds amazing!

Peter

Scrapiron, all the pre planning is paying off. Watching all the pieces go together is amazing. From novelist to layout builder you make everything looks so easy. Cannot wait to see the finished product...........Paul

My father used to take me down to Penn Station when I was a little boy and, with his railroad pass, get me up into the cab of GG-1's. Those memories are with me still after all these years. My dad passed in 1991 but I will remember him with the GG-1's running under catenary in Williamstown. Yes, I know the catenary is New Haven style but I liked the look of it better. I am laying out the tracks in Williamstown which will be on the lower level. The scene will be about 13' x 2' and very detailed.