TIU inop lightning strike...help,help.

Willy,

I run mostly multi-unit 5 and 6 engine and would like to keep the 4.2 firmware and both of my remotes are 4.2.

Sorry about your loss!

Regardless, the contents of your remotes would not be affected by updating the software in both a new TIU and your existing remotes to DCS 6.1 (except for the lashup and other bugs corrected in DCS 4.3 through  6.1).

However, if you want to keep DCS 4.2 in a replacement TIU (did I mention that it's much better to upgrade to 6.1?), be aware that it's no longer available from MTH. I can send you a copy of 4.2 (if I can't talk you into upgrading to 6.1) via E-mail.

Let me know fi you would like to (foolishly) roll a replacement TIU back to DCS 4.2.

I hope I was clear in my recommendations, above.  

Have had many passenger cars come in with fried wires on the roof.  Lightning strikes.

I unplug ALL trains when not running.  When I leave the shop, ALL plugs are removed from the sockets.

As for TV's etc - large surge protectors.

bruce

I would replace TIU.  Transformers not zapped?  I would also check all engines, as they might have gotten a surge since TIU did.

Send it to G! 

I disagree with you on this one, E Joe.  Other components in the TIU probably have been overstressed and their useful lives reduced.  I suspect it is not economically feasible for GGG to test every component, and even then, one could not be certain.  I won't presume to speak for him, but I feel it would be unwise for him to run such tests and then "warranty" that you'll have no further trouble. 

If insurance company is paying for the TIU, take the money and run---then you will have the same reliability as a new one, because you will have a new one.

thank you gentleman I will probably stick to 4.2 as it has been very stable in my environment with large multi units and I can always upgrade later. I would love to get a new revision L. and pay somebody to load 4.2. State Farm is now involved and well aware of the system I have. wish me luck.

I'd take the insurance payment and run.

Willygee, my view is that if a version does all you want it to, and does it well, why bother to upgrade if you don't feel you can do it yourself.  BUT, since a new TIU will come with a later version (maybe the latest), it would be easier to upgrade the remotes.  It really isn't a hard or complicated job:  the Loader 5.0 program has on screen step-by-step instructions.

Given the other thread about Rev L problems, right now I'd rather have an earlier version. 

willygee posted:

lightning strike with a huge popping sound took out tv, laptop, radio scanner and and my tiu. Tiu will will come on.. red light on, nothing but check track and and the component circled in red gets hot. I will be calling my insurance company soon. is this unit worth saving or should I buy new? Tiu is setup in passive mode revision L 4.2 . I run mostly multi-unit 5 and 6 engine and would like to keep the 4.2 firmware and both of my remotes are 4.2. there are 21 PS2 PS3 engines on the layout which I will not be able to check until I have a operating tiu. thank you in advance.

component circled looks like a 5-volt regulator... I wonder if it's worth replacing as it does get hot.

There's most likely noting wrong with the regulator.  I suspect that it's likely the ACT244 chips or the TVS diodes added by MTH shorted with the power surge and are dragging down the regulator.  There's a pretty extensive thread on the issues with the Rev. L TIU and the ACT244 chips dying with use.

Willygee, Sorry to hear this. I thought you had your TIU plugged into a battery converter powered supply with surge protection? They seem to be pretty fool proof. By the way, I got bit by the lightning bug too, about 3 weeks ago, and lost a $1000.00 Vizio flat screen smart TV. I'm now looking into a surge protector that protects the whole house right at the electrical panel.

Could you post your findings on the whole house surge protection systems? I thought about asking the builder's electrician about this when we moved here a few years ago, but too many other things (move related) got in the way and I never asked.

Or if you would rather not post, my email is in my profile. But, I think it would be very good info that others here might want to know about as well. Something that could possibly happen to any one of us someday. This happened to my daughter and son-in-law a few years ago too.

I don't know if a surge protector can protect against a lightning strike at the house, as opposed to one hitting transmission lines further away.  I think that the only protection for the house is lightning rods.  

The surge in the house may well not come through the power lines, but thru induction or directly.  Insulation can't resist lightning's voltage.

RTR12, I'll keep you posted.

Thanks!

A friend of mine in West Virginia just had a lighting strike come in through her window and fry their satellite box and 70" TV, burned the wood flooring too. She actually saw the bolt and is lucky she didn't get hit. Even though we don't get a lot of lightning here and probably won't help against such a direct hit, I'm also interested in a whole-house surge protector.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

There's most likely noting wrong with the regulator.  I suspect that it's likely the ACT244 chips or the TVS diodes added by MTH shorted with the power surge and are dragging down the regulator.  There's a pretty extensive thread on the issues with the Rev. L TIU and the ACT244 chips dying with use.

Getting back to the original problem, wouldn't that be easy to find then? Is the whole TIU shot?

Engineer-Joe posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

There's most likely noting wrong with the regulator.  I suspect that it's likely the ACT244 chips or the TVS diodes added by MTH shorted with the power surge and are dragging down the regulator.  There's a pretty extensive thread on the issues with the Rev. L TIU and the ACT244 chips dying with use.

Getting back to the original problem, wouldn't that be easy to find then? Is the whole TIU shot?

good question as the tiu still comes on, red LED blinks once and the other LED stays on.. but that regulator and heatsink get hot to the touch and then I pull the power (z500). State farm has authorized a new unit.

How many channels where attached passively to the track?  Most likely a short on the 5V buss causing the VR to over heat.  IF just one channel, remove the Transmit chip and see if the fault clears.  Otherwise go the replace TIU route.  G

FWIW, I have a Rev. L sitting on the bench, and with all channels powered, that regulator does get fairly warm.  Not too hot to touch, but you know it's working.

GGG posted:

How many channels where attached passively to the track?  Most likely a short on the 5V buss causing the VR to over heat.  IF just one channel, remove the Transmit chip and see if the fault clears.  Otherwise go the replace TIU route.  G

fixed 1 and fixed 2 only in passive.. orher two channels have never been used.

Whole house surge protection by Square D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rrM9b6hZk

Here is one that just snaps into the panel. No wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjqVPJdJLmw

Dave Zucal posted:

Here is one that just snaps into the panel. No wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjqVPJdJLmw

Sadly, it's only for their service panels, so unless you have the Square-D panel, you'd be spending a couple grand to install it!

Yes GRJ, sadly I have a Cutler Hammer panel, which is the same panel in this surge protector installation video by Bobot's Trains. The Eaton's model: CHSPT2ULTRA whole house surge protector is what I'll be installing. It's a little more work then the snap on neutral that Square D has, but does have the advantage of not having to open the panel door to check if it's still working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFeaxRzPgtA

Hmmm, my master 200 amp panel is Square D! I'll have to check into this more.

Just looked, my panel is also Square D. Gotta read their datasheets and see whats what. The 80 something numbered one looks to be the better one from the videos, I think. It looks like one could use the Eaton as well as long as you had a 50 amp breaker that fits your make of panel. 

All my empty slots are at the bottom as well. 200 amp panel with at least 8 or so slots available on each side, but all at the bottom. Nice to have some extra room though! I have already added 2 or 3 breakers to each side when we first moved in too. 

Thanks for posting all this info to compare.

If you want space at the top, it's usually pretty easy to shift the breakers down to create space at the top.  They all just plug in, and with a little care, you'll probably not have to even remote the wires from them.

I have lived on an old farm for over 30 years. I have 2 model railroads. My lighting rods have saved me twice now.

GE makes one as well. 10 Minute install.

I installed it to protect computers, Home theater, etc... 

Trains get unplugged when not in use.

SurgePro

Lightning must build a path before it strikes. A good lightning rod grid system grounds any static charge it picks up in the air and destroys that path. If your lightning rods are getting hit by lightning it could be because the connection to the ground grid system became loose or corroded, or the moisture in the earth around the grid system became dry from a drought. It's a good idea to clean and tighten any ground connections and to wet down the grid area in the evening, when summer storms most often occur, if there's been a long period of dry weather when you know storms are moving in. You'll sleep better.

All of these home surge protectors seem to use MOV devices.  They have a high capacity, but degrade with every surge they see.  Typically, they will be good for only a few years before the MOV devices fail.  None of these will survive a real lightning strike on the wires close to the house.

If you haven't seen one of these blow up with a real lightning strike, it's pretty spectacular.  I can't find the pictures right now, but I had a friend that had one blow, and it even blew the cover off the box!  He was afraid to go near it after that, he was about 15 feet away in the basement when it went.  I had to go over and take that one out and install the new one.

Years ago when I started the layout, I also had lightning rods installed on the house and garage.   I live in an area where we get a few storms.  I know people have had issues due to this problem.   I would not  keep a TIU that took a hit.  I have many dead remote and TIU devices if you are doing a fix and need any parts that an advertising dealer may not have.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you want space at the top, it's usually pretty easy to shift the breakers down to create space at the top.  They all just plug in, and with a little care, you'll probably not have to even remote the wires from them.

It's my luck that the wires will be too short to move the breakers down. I haven't had the cover off the panel since right after we moved in when  I added some circuits to the basement. Can't remember what the wiring looked like inside? But, in one of those videos it appeared to not matter all that much whether it was in the top or the bottom? One even showed a new panel available with the surge protector already mounted at the bottom. 

FWIW, MOV equipped outlets will also stop noise (spikes) from things being turned on (motors & other stuff like that) from being passed down the line. I had a small computer type fan on a large stereo system that was in shelves with glass doors (for a little extra amp cooling). Always forgot to turn on the fan before the stereo so it made a nice loud 'pop' through the speakers. I got an MOV equipped outlet from work (used on all panels they installed) and the 'pop' problem was solved!  Just an FYI, in case anyone ever has this or similar problem, worked for me anyway.