TMCC Locomotives Not Responding

Is the Legacy base plugged into the same outlet as before with the floor layout ?  A outlet not properly grounded or even some terminal strips can cause weird things to happen.

TMCC relies on house ground to propagate its radio signal.  If you're plugging your TMCC command base into a power strip with a surge protector or using a 3-to-2 "cheat" adapter, you won't get a good signal.

If you've connected your command base to layout ground, you also have to make sure you have good continuity on the outside rails.  With some brands of track, the two ground rails are not electrically connected through the ties, so it might be necessary to add jumpers for reliable operation.

Since ALL of your locos seem to be unresponsive, I would suspect your wiring or the base itself.  Keep searching, you'll find the problem.

The command station is plugged into a surge protector.  I’m pretty sure I’ve been able to use it before, it’s my own surge protector that I got specifically for the railroad.  I am using a 50+foot cord that it’s plugged into, though, as there are no electrical outlets located anywhere near the railroad (it’s being displayed at church, not at home).  I don’t know if that could affect it.  Track is a mix of FasTrack and traditional tubular, with power feeds at regular intervals from a 12-gauge power bus.

"I’m pretty sure I’ve been able to use it before, it’s my own surge protector that I got specifically for the railroad."

If it hasn't been tested before with this exact configuration (50 foot extension cord, the same outlet you used successfully), that's very likely your problem I'd guess.  First order of business is testing the setup without the surge protector.  If you haven't previously used this particular outlet with the extension cord, testing without the extension cord is the next order of business (just plug the base into the outlet directly and test a loop of track). Finally, if the outlet hasn't been used before, it may be, if the building is old, that the outlet is not giving you a good earth ground.  So one of those three factors (the surge suppressor, the extension cord, or the outlet itself) may be causing your problem.  Hopefully the surge suppressor.

Use the 50' extension cord (or two 50' cords in series or a single 100' cord) and loop the cord around the perimeter of the layout. If this gets you operational with TMCC, you need to figure how to route the cord so that kids/people can't cause a problem with the cord.

Here is a crude drawing showing how to try to run the extension cord.

I think it is the building/outlet I’m using.  That’s the only real difference from operating at home, the location.  I tried plugging the surge protector directly into the outlet with a short length of track, with no change in results.  I could plug the Legacy system directly in, but I would only be able to plug in one of the two power supplies.  The plug on my surge protector can only plug into the lower outlet, so I can't plug the surge protector and the Legacy system into the same outlet.

I found a video about running an extension cord under the layout.  We found a second cord, so I tried that, but I’m not sure I set it up right.  I’ve got it suspended directly under the bench work, but I don’t think it’s close enough to the track.  The track plan is a single track main line with a couple of staging yards.  I’ll post photos once I can get to an actual computer.

Oh, wait, does the extension cord have to be plugged into the surge protector by itself?  Because I just added it to the extension cord I was already using and then looped it around the layout.

Try plugging the command base into a 3-wire properly grounded outlet.  If you use an extension cord, it should be a 3-wire cord directly to the outlet.  That usually fixes stuff like this.

I’ll give that a try on Wednesday.  I won’t have access to my railroad until then.

Plug into the closest wall socket without the power strip or the extension cord for a test.  If you must use and extension cord use a shorter one and it must b 3 prong for the ground.  Keep power cords as short as possible. 

I tried the separate power cord; unfortunately, no change.  I even tried laying the extension cord directly next to the track, plugged into the power terminal

For reference, here's the photos of the layout:

We aren't going to be in our current space much longer, so it's not worth assessing the building for improvements.

Aaron, Is there anyone nearby that has a layout that you can bring your cab 2 and engine to check the operation.  Way back when GRJ made the signal booster available I had problems all over my layout and tried all of the tricks such as running wires near the track which did not work.  When the signal booster was added there was no notable improvement.  I sent the cab2 and base to Lionel where they did something?? and it now works great.  I don't know if they will still provide service for the cab2 and base.

Marty

Is the "U" connection on the Legacy base loose?  There have been some that have become unsoldered over time. 

Have you confirmed that the outlet you're using is a properly grounded 3-wire outlet ?

Others have suggested some of the following, so I am listing some repeated info. Taking into account that you stated engines do run on different TMCC layout.

1) Base2 plugged into 3 wire extension cord, extension cord near track, extension then plugged into AC source.

2) Base2 ground reference is connected to outside rail of track of all your loops - can be accomplished by connecting all the loops outer rail wires together, then combine in the Base2 ground reference, then to transformer ground (this is just one method, and is described for demonstration purposes to stress all loops outer rail must be connected in someway to Base2 reference ground)

3) Place TMCC engine on track, power up Base2, wait a few seconds, then apply power to track, engine should just sit there waiting for TMCC commands. Engine just sitting there indicates high probability that TMCC signal is getting from Base2 thru extension cord, radiated from extension cord to engine, and returned from engine to Base2 via track outer rail. Note: the indication of weak TMCC signal that I most often see is engine sits there with headlight blinking instead of being on solid.

4) With Base2 powered on, if you press buttons or turn velocity wheel on the Cab2 remote, a light should blink on the Base2 indicating that Cab2 and Base2 are communicating. If no Base2 light doesn't blink when doing Cab2 manipulation, could be your antenna on the Base2 isn't connected properly, or, the Base2 and Cab2 are on different channels.

@martind posted:

Aaron, Is there anyone nearby that has a layout that you can bring your cab 2 and engine to check the operation.  Way back when GRJ made the signal booster available I had problems all over my layout and tried all of the tricks such as running wires near the track which did not work.  When the signal booster was added there was no notable improvement.  I sent the cab2 and base to Lionel where they did something?? and it now works great.  I don't know if they will still provide service for the cab2 and base.

Marty

The local O gauge club has their layout set up right now, so I’m going to make a point to go see the layout and ask about it.  (I should also probably ask about joining.)

One of the main guys who worked on the electrical for our space is in my Thursday night Bible study, so I can ask about that.

I guess what I don’t understand is why the locomotives aren’t responding in conventional mode.  I have the PowerMaster set to conventional.  I have half a mind to hook the CW80 up to see what kind of response the locomotives will have.

I’ll double check the U connection.  Is it an internal solder joint that tends to come loose?

When the headlights do come on, they are steady, not blinking.

I’ll try to get some video this week.  Hopefully that can prove helpful.

@GCRailways posted:

I guess what I don’t understand is why the locomotives aren’t responding in conventional mode.  I have the PowerMaster set to conventional.  I have half a mind to hook the CW80 up to see what kind of response the locomotives will have.

I may be able to answer this question.  If you have a TMCC or Legacy command base active, a TMCC or Legacy engine will never respond in conventional mode.  The CMD/CONV switch on the Powermaster just either sets full voltage or allows variable voltage, but it doesn't erase the fact that the command base is transmitting a carrier and thus setting the locomotive to command mode.

@GCRailways

1) Base2 plugged into 3 wire extension cord, extension cord near track, extension then plugged into AC source. You have done this.

2) Base2 ground reference is connected to outside rail of track of all your loops - can be accomplished by connecting all the loops outer rail wires together, then combine in the Base2 ground reference, then to transformer ground (this is just one method, and is described for demonstration purposes to stress all loops outer rail must be connected in someway to Base2 reference ground) Assume you have verified this.

3) Place TMCC engine on track, power up Base2, wait a few seconds, then apply power to track, engine should just sit there waiting for TMCC commands. Engine just sitting there indicates high probability that TMCC signal is getting from Base2 thru extension cord, radiated from extension cord to engine, and returned from engine to Base2 via track outer rail. Note: the indication of weak TMCC signal that I most often see is engine sits there with headlight blinking instead of being on solid. Engines sitting still with headlight on solid verifies TMCC signal is working.

4) With Base2 powered on, if you press buttons or turn velocity wheel on the Cab2 remote, a light should blink on the Base2 indicating that Cab2 and Base2 are communicating. If no Base2 light doesn't blink when doing Cab2 manipulation, could be your antenna on the Base2 isn't connected properly, or, the Base2 and Cab2 are on different channels. I feel we are most likely at a problem area. Cab2 communicates to Base2 on its own radio link, completely separate from the radio link from Base2 to engine. In one of your pics you show the Base2, and it appears the antenna is connected, but I would verify that it is screwed in finger tight. If antenna seems okay, have the Base2 powered up, select any engine on the Cab2, and blow the horn or turn velocity wheel on Cab2 - a light on the Base2 should be blinking while blowing horn or while turning velocity wheel. If not, maybe very weak batteries in Cab2, or Cab2 and Base2 are not set on the same communication channel.

To reinforce what @gunrunnerjohn was telling you, to run in conventional mode, you must disconnect the Base2 from its AC source. Unlike your powermaster that has a manual conventional/TMMC control switch, the engine does not have a manual switch. If the engine sees a TMCC signal, the engine will be only run via TMCC commands. To run the engine in conventional mode, the TMCC signal must be eliminated, and this is accomplished by unplugging the Base2 from AC power.