TMCC powered B units

all based on cost...

I have never added a smoke unit to a powered B unit. The boards should support it.

To be honest I wish it had sound!

I would think they could support it. Or couldn't you get some electronics from a powered A and just transfer them to the powered B? 

If the B unit DOES NOT have a tether cord to the A unit, then you can install a smoke unit in the B. 

Lionels doesn't have tethers but even if they did why couldn't you install a smoke unit with a tethered connection between the units? How would you go about installing a smoke unit in a B unit? 

I'm sure you can have a smoke unit, however the complexity of installation will depend on the exact unit you're adding it to.  The location of the board(s) and the exhaust stack provisions will have to be dealt with.  Lionel has B-units with smoke, so even they thought it was possible.

It's quite possible to add sound as well if you wanted...

How hard do you think it would be to add a smoke unit to a E7 B from Lionel? 

Well, interior size is not much of an issue.  However, without actually looking at the layout inside and considering how to do the task, I can't put a "difficulty" factor on it.  I'd have to see the layout inside to have a better idea. I believe you'd have to come up with a manifold for the smoke as there are multiple stacks as well.

What is the exact Lionel product number?

It's 6-24583 

In their infinite wisdom, Lionel chooses not to have a parts breakdown or picture of the inside of that unit.

Oh of course. ☺

I've noticed Lionel may not show parts for every unit of a certain model (like this NYC E-7) if they are similar to other of the same units. However, some other roadnames of the same model will show up with parts diagrams. For example, a Texas Special E-7B may have a parts diagram. Also, they may very well have a diagram for at least one of the E-7/E-8 B units that was equipped with smoke.

The scale F3s from the early 2000s all have smoke, lights, rear operating couplers and their own radio and mother board. You can buy the parts for that engine or just look for scale B units on the auction sites. I have found 3 for far less than the cost or buying the parts separately including both Lionel parts and ERR parts.

By comparison, modern B units and dummies are just a boxcar with windows.

Pete

Did they come factory equipped with smoke? I know the PRR, Erie Lackawanna, UP, F unit Bs didn't they have smoke and also the NYC E7 Bs didn't. 

I am only familiar with the Scale F3s. Lionel also produced many traditional F3s during the same period. You can find out what a particular engine came with by searching for its parts at lionelsupport.com.

Pete

It would be far easier to simply take the shell off and shoot a few pictures.  I looked some more, and I don't see any internal layout pictures.  I did find a set of parts for one B-Unit, but I know what's in it, I want to see where they are positioned.

(6-24578) Union Pacific TMCC E7 Diesel Powered B-unit #988B

Take a look at the LionChief Plus smoke unit.  It mounts to the roof. 

Marty, He'd also have to add a 5V power supply for the fan as the TMCC smoke unit has that on-board.  If there's room under the stack, it's not that hard to mount a standard smoke unit to the shell if desired.  I typically glue a bracket to the sides and use the bottom mounting screw holes to secure it lined up with the stack.  It's when there's more than one stack opening that it gets trickier, then you have to do some plumbing.

John, 5VDC can be had from pins 19-20 off the R2LC board or any of the 5VDC regs Lionel makes.  They have many.  

J Daddy posted:

all based on cost...

I have never added a smoke unit to a powered B unit. The boards should support it.

To be honest I wish it had sound!

"To be honest I wish it had sound!" YESSSSSSSSS!!! Especially at the price point!!

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

John, 5VDC can be had from pins 19-20 off the R2LC board or any of the 5VDC regs Lionel makes.  They have many.  

Marty, I am pretty sure the 5V on the R2LC is only for the processor. Mike R pointed out you shouldn't use it to  power other devices in particular motors which produce pulses that might effect the processor.

Pete

It has also been used to put power into the late TMCC driver boards where the 5V reg has died.  That fix works.   That 5V ends up at the Odyssey board from the driver board.  I have never heard what you stated.

Just passing on what I was told. Its a 100 ma regulator which by itself it plenty to drive a fan motor and even a chuff trigger but the motor noise will produce interference.

Next time you talk to Mike or Jon, ask them what they think.

Pete

I have to agree with Pete on this point Marty.  I've actually used the 5V from the R2LC to power my Chuff Generator for an installation that wasn't using the Super-Chuffer, so I needed 5V.  That board was only drawing around 10ma, and the R2LC regulator got up to 65C-70C with the extra load.  The additional load of around 40ma for the fan motor may be more load than it will absorb.  I know that I'd be somewhat nervous trusting it.

The same regulator on the Lionel fan unit just powering the fan runs pretty hot all by itself, so with whatever additional load the R2LC circuitry puts on it, I don't think I'd want to trust it.  Lionel obviously recognized the marginal capacity of the TO-92 regulator as I see many diesel models that run the fan continuously with the add-on heatsink.

Not doubting you.  Many modifications have been used that are not text book.   Some as you found out John do not hold up.  I would bet what you did with your chuff generator did not crap out.  Again what is taught and what works may differ.  

Marty, I haven't gotten the locomotive with the chuff generator powered by the R2LC back yet, so that's a good sign.   I just don't know that I'd trust the smoke motor power draw on the R2LC regulator, that might push it over the edge.

I have to agree that many mods are not in the text book, I'm the poster child for making some of them.

I read all your posts.  As we all know, any outcome can not be predicted until it is tried.  

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

As we all know, any outcome can not be predicted until it is tried.  

And some not even after it's tried.