TMCC vs DCS trains

Jerry,

You cover a lot in 3 paragraphs.  :-)  There are tons of threads on this forum that discuss what you ask above.  IMHO, you would get the best information by searching.

Regarding quality of Lionel vs MTH and others.  I primarily own Lionel and MTH.  I find the quality to be similar (as far as working out of the box, problems, etc).  

MTH equipment and DCS are compatible with your PW ZW but you need to add circuit protection.  This is regardless whether you run MTH DCS, or Lionel TMCC/Legacy.  The old post war circuit protection is not nearly fast enough for modern electronics.  Search for circuit breakers, ZW circuit breakers, and TVS and you will find more info.

The 2 systems are compatible as far as being able to co-exist and DCS can (when setup properly) control TMCC functions but not all Legacy functions.  The layout should be wired using the star method (again search for star wiring).  This will provide the best connectivity for both TMCC and DCS.

The pros of using both are you can completely control both Lionel and MTH.  Since both Lionel and MTH will run in conventional mode, you can run MTH with TMCC but only in conventional mode.  Just as you can run Lionel with DCS but again, only in conventional mode.

I can't comment on your SC1 SC2 question because I have not done this.  But again, a bit of searching here should yield you your answer.

Hope this helps.

Tony

Jerry,

Yes you can use the DCS remote and TIU (track interface unit) on your layout. On my small layout, I have it hooked up right after the transformer. Without knowing your layout wiring in specifics, I would hook up the TIU on the wires coming immediately from the transformer. So yes, you can use the ZW with the TIU and remote, but it is recommended that you have a fuse to prevent short circuits that may damage the TIU and engines, because the ZW breaker may not work fast enough.

You can switch your switches using the AIU (accessory interface unit), to switch your switches with the DCS remote. 1 AIU can operate 10 switches I believe, as well as 10 accessories.

That was all fact, below is all opinion.

WARNING, THIS OPINION IS MINE AND MINE ALONE, IT MIGHT NOT BE SHARED WITH OTHERS!

I was a conventional runner, and had some PS2 engines, as well as some TMCC. For Christmas 2014, I got a DCS system, and I was thrilled. I have had some repairs on some of my PS2 engines, but, within the span of a year, half of my PS2 engines needed repair. My TMCC engines NEVER, I repeat, NEVER needed anything done to them, except maybe some oil or grease here and there, but no major repairs.

Except cool engines, like the Coors Lite, or other special engines from MTH, I will not buy another MTH unless it is under warranty. But after the warranty is over, I will trade them for TMCC engines. In fact, I haven't even taken my DCS system, or a MTH engine out of their boxes since I moved 2 months ago.

Conclusion, unless the MTH engine is cool or it is under warranty, it is MO that you should not get it, for it will most likely "blow up." Get the TMCC version instead, or upgrade it with Electric RailRoad products.

Thank you,

Nickstrains.

Jerry, the first thing I would suggest is to get a copy of Barry's DCS Companion and read through it to see if you are  willing to follow his advice on how to install and operate DCS.  It's not hard, but it does require some discipline to get a good functioning system.  As far as the relative stability of DCS vs. TMCC, my experience is that both systems are equally dependable.  I've been operating both since they became available and have not had a single meltdown.  As Nick suggests, I would be careful in buying used equipment with either system.   

Jerry,

   I also run DCS & Legacy, I have only one MTH P2 NASA #1 Switcher Engine, that has ever had a problem, and it was run hard for many many years, on our larger layout, by lots of different kids.  Got to admit this was an early P2 engine, and not quite the quality of the later P2 engines.  I have also had one Lionel Legacy Shay Engine, that had to go back for repair to Lionel, fortunately it was under warranty, Meghan set things up and the Legacy Shay was repaired by the Lionel work shop here in the USA, it now runs perfectly.  I do believe both these modern RC systems are fantastic for the money expended, that is why I run them both.  The great thing about the Lionel FasTrack & Legacy is the FasTrack Command Control wireless Switches, that can be controlled right from the Legacy Cab2 or TMCC Cab1.  Simply fantastic low voltage wireless engineering, which MTH has not developed yet. The Legacy also has a completely rechargeable remote control 990 station, DCS has no rechargeable hand held remote control (HHRC), except for mine and Bill Ingraham's, which Bill (Willygee) engineered and built for both of us.    Although run on different engineering principles, both systems are fantastic and IMO having both is the best way to run a layout.  Remember also MTH DCS can control 95% of all Legacy Engine operations in Command Control, when both systems are connected properly, Legacy can not control P2/P3 Engines in Command Control.  

IMO both systems enhance each other when run together!

PCRR/Dave

None of my 25 mth dcs locos has blown up, but I've only been running them for 16 years.

Wow, much thanks for the information. Now I have to decide if I want I want to go to mth? Knoing myself I probably will.

As always, your information is very very much appreciated.

Jerry 

RJR has been at it a lot longer than I have, but my MTH fleet is much larger than the any of the other brands in the fleet and has had by far the least amount of problems. I don't favor any one brand, I like them all equally. When looking for a new engine I go for what I like in the road name I want, brand does not matter. Each one has their pros and cons, but I like them all.

If you are unfamiliar with a brand or system, and if you are not capable of doing your own repairs, or do not have access to an experienced repair person (like most of us do not), you are best off consulting a long established dealer in that brand/system.  Then you have an experienced, reputable retailer (whether local or internet) to stand behind the product, and should would purchase new, which comes with a warranty, or used, with a dealer warranty.  These are reasonable strategies for winding up with functioning products, good advice, and satisfaction.  Not the cheapest or easiest approach, but the best one in the long run for someone unfamiliar with a brand/system.  There are folks who can recommend long standing and reliable MTH/DCS dealers if, as is usually the case, there is no local such dealer.   People speak very highly of Ready to Roll in Miami, for example.  Best wishes for success and happiness.

Both companies make good stuff. Mht may be a bit kinder to your wallet but Legacy has a few more bells and whistles. You will pay a premium for the Lionel name, the 100+ year tradition, and the orange and blue box. Bottom line is you will eventually need DCS and TMCC/Legacy. If you can spend the extra money, You might as well skip TMCC and take the Legacy plunge! If you have or acquire high quality used "conventional"  stuff, ERR's (now a forum advertiser) stuff is the easiest upgrade to TMCC/Legacy, DCS upgrades on pullmor motored stuff  really isn't very  $$$ practical.  There again,  I am talking about "special" pieces, not every conventional F3 and GP diesel in your roundhouse. Regarding reliability, both are very good but "advantage Lionel" on service , unless your local store services MTH on site. Keep in mind that the "simple" predigital stuff  had E units which routinely failed, D batteries which caroaded, and paper insulators on the tracks which degraded over time. I've fixed many hundreds of them over the last 50 years or so.  I love my old stuff (and I have lots of it!) but the new stuff from both companies is like WOW! Simply amazing trains. BTW I've never been burned on used stuff from this website. I absolutely can't say that about ebay auctions.  Good luck and enjoy our great hobby. Enjoy and utilize this forum.

Again, thank you very much for your replies. You people are fantastic.

Best Jerry

Nicks Trains posted:

Conclusion, unless the MTH engine is cool or it is under warranty, it is MO that you should not get it, for it will most likely "blow up." Get the TMCC version instead, or upgrade it with Electric RailRoad products.

Thank you,

Nickstrains.

Everyone's experience tempers their response. I have purchased over 45 command engines (TMCC, DCS, Legacy - Kline, MTH, ERR, and Lionel.)  I have not had Nick's experience.  I put my trains in boxes last year after 10 + years of running. During that time, my failure rate (boards failing or DOA) is similar for both Lionel and MTH (2 each vendor).  After more than 1 year in boxes, my test engines for the trackwork include  2 Lionel Legacy engines and 7 DCS engines and have all worked as advertised (one exception - tach reader needed to be replaced on my oldest DCS engines Reading T1).  I do not purchase engines based upon vendor but I base my purchase decision based upon features offered by the vendor and a specific engine.  All the Kline engines I first purchased when I got back into this hobby (NYC Hudson, B&O Light Pacific, and Reading Tank and F3 AA) have been converted to Proto2 because of the lack of cruise control on my Kline engines and the way I ran my trains at that time (4 trains per loop) required the cruise control feature (up to 37 simultaneously). I have scratched that itch and I will now run them in a more controlled manner on the new layout.

The only thing I was cautioned about buying MTH trains was to make sure I buy PS-2 and later with the 3 volt boards.

I have stuck to this rule and the only issue I have had is an engine I purchased and I cannot get the electrical cantenary to work.

Jerry, when I got back into the hobby ten years ago, the decision as to which system to go with was all based on economics. I had planned to build a layout that would run my post-war engines much like you with my postwar ZW. But then I discovered that the train world had changed. Lionel had TMCC and a dreaded up-start called MTH had DCS. Seeing what the new electronics could do tempted me down the path to try to drain my wallet. I learned that I could run MTH and TMCC on the DCS system, but the reverse was not the case. Legacy was not an option at the time. I opted for the DCS system and so far, I have not rued that decision. There are many now that can afford both systems on their layouts and therefore have no problem running anything. I have still balked at that being the old miser that I am. I did go to the expense to purchase the electronics from the former company called TAS to put TMCC run electronics in two of my old post war steamers so that all of my engines can be run by command control. This is the layout that is still run by that older ZW. It can run four trains at a time. As was pointed out, I did install both fast acting fuses and TVS to protect the electronics in the engines. This is a must unless you want to gamble with any type of derailment and subsequent damage to the electronics.

Rick

I got back into trains in 1997 collecting MTH Premier. I purchased 3 PS1 locomotives before PS2 came out. My first layout was a carpet layout using MTH Real Trax and a Z4000 power supply.  PS2 was what inspired me to actually run trains on my living room floor. However, it was disappointing as I had to frequently clean the track. I don't know if it was the carpet or my proximity to the Florida Intracoastal. After returning to NE 12 years ago, I recently decided to build a proper layout. My trains have been running great on my new bench-work in a dry heated space. Well sort of heated; I only keep it at 50F. I am running six 5 volt PS2 and two 3 volt PS2. I recently added a Lionel Legacy 10 Wheeler and bought the 990 system to operate it. I haven't even bothered to link the MTH TIU to the command base. I recently pre-ordered an Atlas O switcher that will be Legacy compatible. My first requirement is Command Control. I have no desire to operate conventional. I still have one PS1 locomotive that I will sell some day. I don't have a lot of operating time on my locomotives, but I've only had one problem. It's an MTH Premier 5 volt PS2 steam locomotive. The head light flickers when the smoke unit is on.

Again thanks for your replies, Jerry