TMCC wallpack needed

@jeff55 posted:

Hi all,

I'm getting back into the hobby after 12 years and acquired a Lionel command base and remote for a very real reasonable price. However, there is no

wallpack or plug as I call it. I did some research and it looks like it is 9 volt 700 mv  I found something on Amazon that is adjustable up to 12 volts with an

assortment for female plug ends.  It is made by Belker and it looks like it will work. I wanted to get some feedback before I purchase it.

Thank you,

Jeff

Jeff,

Your situation has come up many times in the last few weeks as fellow hobbyists are scrambling to locate and buy, used, the command sets that are going out of production.

Unfortunately the wallpacks for TMCC/Legacy command bases are unlike any used in any other application.  For this reason you cannot use a standard replacement without modifying it.  This is because whatever you use it must have a three prong plug, instead of the two-prong one found on 99.999% of them, and must plug into a grounded outlet.

The ground pin is needed because earth ground forms half of the antenna used by TMCC/Legacy for its radio transmissions to the locomotive.

Lionel has replacements in stock, although they can be hard to find because you must go to the Lionel Parts website (lionelsupport.com), and not the Product website, to buy them.

You can also use a standard replacement, one without the ground prong, but then you need to add a jumper harness to the circuit.  Follow this link for more info if you go this route:

       Make this Cable | SteveH

Mike

Hi Mike,

Rats, I looked at the parts website and it says part # 6102911010 not available.  I looked again at the one on Amazon and you are right about 2 prongs

not 3.  Could you please  elaborate on that modification?

Jeff

Here's what you want for $15.50 from All Electronics: https://www.allelectronics.com...l-transformer/1.html

@jeff55 posted:

I did some research and it looks like it is 9 volt 700 mv  I found something on Amazon that is adjustable up to 12 volts with an

assortment for female plug ends.  It is made by Belker and it looks like it will work. I wanted to get some feedback before I purchase it.

If you want to confirm the compatibility of the All Electronics unit, here's a link for the currently out-of-stock Lionel wall pack priced at $20: https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-COMMAND-BASE-TMCC-1.

Note the output is 12 VAC, 100 ma, not 9 volts.  The All Electronics unit costs less and has power (amps) to spare.

@jeff55 posted:

Hi Mike,

Rats, I looked at the parts website and it says part # 6102911010 not available.  I looked again at the one on Amazon and you are right about 2 prongs

not 3.  Could you please  elaborate on that modification?

Jeff

If you follow the link I embedded in my last reply you'll see a short extension cable that plugs in-between the cord coming from the standard wall pack you're using as a substitute and the command base.

This extension cable has a wire coming out of it that you would clamp under the screw that holds the outlet cover on the outlet on the wall  This provides the ground path to earth ground needed for the TMCC/Legacy radio signal to propagate correctly.

The thread I was pointing you toward has instructions for making this extension cable.  It's not something you can buy pre-made.

Mike

@PGentieu posted:

Here's what you want for $15.50 from All Electronics: https://www.allelectronics.com...l-transformer/1.html

Does it put out the correct voltage?  My understanding is that the wallpacks for Base 1 (TMCC) and Base 2 (TMCC/Legacy) have different output voltages.

Mike

@PGentieu posted:

If you want to confirm the compatibility of the All Electronics unit, here's a link for the currently out-of-stock Lionel wall pack priced at $20: https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-COMMAND-BASE-TMCC-1.

Note the output is 12 VAC, 100 ma, not 9 volts.  The All Electronics unit costs less and has power (amps) to spare.

Depending on which TMCC set you have, the wall pack puts out either 12 or 9 volts AC.  The power supply for TMCC set 6-12911 outputs 12vac, the supply for "Legacy" Cab-1L/Base-1L (6-37147) outputs 9vac.  These sets look almost identical, so suggest that you check the item number.  Posts in other threads from the electrical gurus have suggested that it's risky to use a 9v when the set calls for 12v and vice versa.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Does it put out the correct voltage?  My understanding is that the wallpacks for Base 1 (TMCC) and Base 2 (TMCC/Legacy) have different output voltages.

Mike

The parts number (part # 6102911010) the original poster cites in the third post from the top is for the original TMCC 12VAC wall pack (see below).

So yes, it does put out the correct voltage.

I believe his research may have misled him to the specs for the Legacy Command Base (9V).  Notwithstanding the functional overlap, the Lionel terminology of "Legacy Command" distinguishes the latter generation from the first generation "TMCC."

@PGentieu posted:

I believe his research may have misled him to the specs for the Legacy Command Base (9V).  Notwithstanding the functional overlap, the Lionel terminology of "Legacy Command" distinguishes the latter generation from the first generation "TMCC."

Not well, as things have been, because of the "notwithstanding".  But even worse going forward because the recent announcement of the "Base 3" (2208010), for which there will be no handheld remote, i.e. "Cab 3", muddies these waters significantly.

In light of this "TMCC" and "Legacy Command" do not adequately describe the functions of what used to be called the "(Classic) Trainmaster Command Set" (6-12969), and the later "Legacy Command Set (#990)" (6-14295).

With the announcement of "Base 3", the terminology "Base 2" for (which supports both Legacy Command and TMCC), and "Base 1" (which only supports TMCC) makes more sense going forward, especially since many folks will now be searching for the individual pieces, particularly for Cab 2's or CAB 1L's, instead of the command "sets", in order to work with the "Base 3".

It's a difference of opinion on terminology, but not really a difference of fact on functionality.

Mike

Hey guys,

Thank you all for your help. I have a question concerning the proper wiring using the wall pack PGentieu showed. It has 3 terminals on the bottom

which lead to the TMCC command base, which is 12V not 9 as I stated at the beginning. I need to come up with a cable with a female end to connect

this to the base.  Questions are, (1) how do I find the correct cable and (2) would there be 3 wires from the cable end or 2? I know this is a simple

procedure for those who know what there doing, as I am still getting my feet wet again. I had no idea it would be like this to come up with the missing

wall pack. I thought I would grab any 12V adapter and use it. This is showing me to SLOW down and do some research 1st before buying.

Thanks again,

Jeff

Jeff,

1.) You'll need a cable like this with a 2.5 mm x 5.5  mm barrel plug and stripped and tinned wires at the other end.  This one is Part No. 839-1249-ND from Digi-Key, for example, which will plug into the command base:

2.) Then you need the wallpack that @PGentieu recommended previously:

3.) Next, connect one of the leads to the left-hand screw in this picture, say red, and the other black) to right-hand screw.  Because it's AC it doesn't actually matter which color goes to which outside screw, but you must not use the middle screw for this step.

4.) Finally, and here's the secret, find a small piece of wire, or a bent paper clip, to connect as a jumper between the screw with the black wire (in addition to the wire you just connected to it) and the middle screw.

(Edit, 4/4/2021: The jumper has been moved to a corrected position, in order to make sure that the ground prong going into the outlet connects to the black wire, which is the sleeve on the barrel plug.  Thanks to @PGentieu for spotting the issue -- see his comment farther down in the thread below.)

Then you're good to go as long as the voltage put out by the wallpack matches that required by the command base you're plugging it in to.

Mike

Now that's what this novice needs, pictures! Thank you Mike for posting these. I ordered the wall unit, or transformer as I call it and 2 of the cables in case

well, just in case. Cost me with shipping about $40.00 So, I paid $92.00 for the TMCC base and remote plus the $40.00 for these items, not too bad for these

hideous inflated times. At least now I can run my locomotives and will most likely add the base 3 later after its been debugged. Thank you again everybody.

Jeff

Thanks to Mike for providing and revising the diagram; no need anymore for my previous comment (see his post 2nd above).