What exactly is "tooling"?
Am I correct in my assumption that when I hear a train maker has produced new tooling or is using old tooling, it refers to anything that has to be made by a cast or mold of some sort?
Metal or plastic?
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What exactly is "tooling"?
Am I correct in my assumption that when I hear a train maker has produced new tooling or is using old tooling, it refers to anything that has to be made by a cast or mold of some sort?
Metal or plastic?
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Yes.
"Yes."
A man of few words, but correct. This word used in this sense can be connected with two other meaningful words, "BIG INVESTMENT"
Tooling in general is any object necessary to fabricate, finish, assemble and package product.
Some tools are generally fixed / permanent assets such stamping presses, computer numerically controlled milling and turning machines, etc.
Other tools are unique to the product and generally consumable such as stamping & molding dies, numerical control computer programs, jigs, fixtures, paint masks, etc.
Simplistically, tooling costs include:
>Non-recurring engineering to plan, methodize and design tooling;
>Usage costs for wear and tear on fixed / permanent tooling;
>All material and fabrication costs for unique tooling.
Brian has it right. It is a substantial investment for any model train manufacture. Just to give you some perspective Richard Maddox went on record with the early 2000's Lionel Veranda turbine locomotive tooling costing in the $200,000 ball park. People wonder why model train companies won't make certain tooling changes to satisfy changes between different railroads. What they fail to realize is that each tooling change can cost any where from $800 to thousands of dollars. Each company must decide if moving a headlight or other detail warrants the cost of the move and will it really result in the sale of X number of extra models to absorb that cost. Overall I find the whole process very fascinating but it's an area that most folks never think about. Hope this provides some insight.
This is one area that 3D printing is helping with. Then can print out an item, make corrections and reprint it all without having to build any tooling then having to modify it with corrections
Brian has it right. It is a substantial investment for any model train manufacture. Just to give you some perspective Richard Maddox went on record with the early 2000's Lionel Veranda turbine locomotive tooling costing in the $200,000 ball park. People wonder why model train companies won't make certain tooling changes to satisfy changes between different railroads. What they fail to realize is that each tooling change can cost any where from $800 to thousands of dollars. Each company must decide if moving a headlight or other detail warrants the cost of the move and will it really result in the sale of X number of extra models to absorb that cost. Overall I find the whole process very fascinating but it's an area that most folks never think about. Hope this provides some insight.
Is this why we see special runs for clubs and dealers?
Because they are contributing towards the tooling cost?
For example, the old NCLOE LIRR C420's and the recent Nassau Hobby LIRR C-Liners?
Is this why we see special runs for clubs and dealers?
Because they are contributing towards the tooling cost?
For example, the old NCLOE LIRR C420's and the recent Nassau Hobby LIRR C-Liners?
Absolutely. Any opportunity a manufacture has to recover that tooling cost with another business picking up the risk it's a no brainer.
"Absolutely. Any opportunity a manufacture has to recover that tooling cost with another business picking up the risk it's a no brainer."
So true. All we have to do is to go back when the Big Guy at Lionel got Sante Fe and NYC to kick in dollars for his new F3's.
Brian has it right. It is a substantial investment for any model train manufacture. Just to give you some perspective Richard Maddox went on record with the early 2000's Lionel Veranda turbine locomotive tooling costing in the $200,000 ball park. People wonder why model train companies won't make certain tooling changes to satisfy changes between different railroads. What they fail to realize is that each tooling change can cost any where from $800 to thousands of dollars. Each company must decide if moving a headlight or other detail warrants the cost of the move and will it really result in the sale of X number of extra models to absorb that cost. Overall I find the whole process very fascinating but it's an area that most folks never think about. Hope this provides some insight.
I also find the tooling/mfg segment very interesting. I would like to know:
Biggest change is as Chris said:
3D Printing a model to check fit and form is much less cost than a set of molds / dies and close to same cost as CNC machining time. Edit (machine cost is similar but printers do not need a paid operator all the time, and machine cost is dropping rapidly to much less than CNC)
Using 3D Printing to verify fit and strength of an item is a very big improvement in the overhead of designing new tooling for a new product.
It reduces the risk that the dies / molds will not be usable and blow the project budget.
I see 3D printing as making a change in production as big as Ford did with his assembly line. It is a Paradigm shift in technology. Currently we are on the edge of the price being only for big companies dropping to motivated hobbyists.
Once the price drops more will get in on the tech and the price will keep dropping for a while as companies compete to sell equipment.
Similar to Computer Printers, they started out costly and one per business, now everyone has one on the desk with the home computer. (which also went through the same process)
I did a toolmaking apprenticeship. Although my area was extrusion dies. I did work on some injection mould tools.
One of the guys I worked with was ex Matchbox. He had worked on a lot of the tools for Matchbox's plastic kits (similar to Airfix). He was a Yoda of information on injection moulding. A wizard of the EDM machine.
Bare in mind that Toolmakers were (maybe they still are) some of the highest paid manual workers. The machine tools used to make the tooling are not cheap. I have been out of the game for a while but in the late 90's a CNC wire erosion machine for example was around £120k.
Add on the CAD design work, machine & labour costs your looking at serious coin.
Even in the 30's Lionel had tooling made in Italy where labour cost's were cheaper.
Nick
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