Toonerville Trolley

Thom...some of the original cartoons are available on DVD if your interested....all the best...joe

my wife got me a DVD of old cartoons, from the '50s back to the '30s, and there was a Toonerville cartoon. wouldn't mind having one of those trolleys.

Had the building and figures for a couple of years, got the O gauge trolley about 4 months ago. Very cool.

Also From Rich Art are two very small turntables to turn the trolley and a trailer with a 3D cast Aunt Eppe also if you are interested in completing your collection of all of the items they offered in Toonerville. The building and figure artwork was all done by Ward Kimball who was a Fontaine Fox fan.  

Thom,

Good find. The Toonerville Station is not as hard to find as some may think. Sometimes when you do not know something exists, you don't see it even if it is right in front of you. Hard to explain, but I have seen it happen over and over again.

The Trolley, station and figures were originally made by C&M Enterprises which was Lyle Cain (C) and Dick Mayer (M). Mayer was the man behind the RichArt Company and later on bought the rights to continue making the trolley, station and figures after the passing of "the Skipper" Mr Cain. The trolley came in O gauge, Standard Gauge and G gauge. All the trolleys used the same bodies, just the wheel spacing was changed. The wheels are mounted to the axles off-center so it wobbles down the track.

I love these things.

ARNO

There was also a few made with a smaller body and Bachmann HO handcar mechanisms by Dick Mayer and Butch Alvarado. A few Toonervilles also were made without the wobble wheels by request.

I know about the 3D cast Aunt Eppie because I cast a few of them for Butch and Dick.

Very Cool!

Here is Lyle Cain's Toonerville Trolley

One additional Toonerville item that Dick sold was a set of plastic background pieces that could be arranged into a small Toonerville scene similar in concept to how a scene can be made from the cardboard Ives circus cutouts.  I own a set, which is essentially Toonerville cartoons printed on a sheet of 1/16" thick plastic that have been cut out and set into stands which hold them erect.  I received a set from Butch Alvarado several years ago when I visited Dick's shop and have set them up behind my tinplate Toonerville station on the SGMA layout at Trainfest shows the last few years. 

You can see some of my background pieces on SGMA's video of Trainfest 2015.  Or better yet, see them in person this year on SGMA's layout at Trainfest 2016.  

Bob Nelson

Here are some cardboard advertising cutouts for Toonerville.

Jim O'C posted:

Here are some cardboard advertising cutouts for Toonerville. ga

Jim,

After reviewing your posting of Toonerville Vaseline cardboard cutouts, I think it's likely they are what Dick Mayer used as the basic pattern for his RichArt Toonerville plastic cutouts.  I will try to find and photograph the uncut blank that Butch Alvarado gave me of the RichArt Toonerville cutouts and post it on this forum.  Until I do, here's another photo of the Vaseline Toonerville cutouts.

 Bob Nelson   

Great find.  Is that O gauge track?  Do these wobble as the run down the track?

Yes it is O gauge track and the do wobble.

I don't know much about the story of the Tonnerville trolley.  I think I remember seeing a cartoon on utube sometime back.  I always liked the Toonerville Trolley for it's fun appeal.  Is it at all possible to get just the trolley today in O gauge?

Dennis

They turn up on e bay from time to time and at train shows.

Samplingman posted:

Great find.  Is that O gauge track?  Do these wobble as the run down the track?

A tidbit of useless info. The wobble was provided by Ward Kimble of Disney fame. His solution was to have one wheel with the axle inserted off-center.

Ron M

Did MTH ever make one of these?

Norm

Hartman posted:

Is it at all possible to get just the trolley today in O gauge?  Dennis

Dennis, They do show up on ebay and at other auction houses fairly regularly. They were offered almost exculsively in O gauge, so most likely you will find that version. If you are looking for one in Standard Gauge or G gauge, be prepared to wait a long while before one might show up. Expect to pay around $200-$250 for the trolley itself. The station with figures can range from $100-$200. Condition, boxes and completeness will alter the price in both directions. Sometimes package deals make the most sense when buying.

ARNO

Norm posted:

Did MTH ever make one of these?

Norm

Thankfully no. They don't have to, they already exist.

ARNO

Norm- MTH never made one.

Silver Lake posted:

Also From Rich Art are two very small turntables to turn the trolley and a trailer with a 3D cast Aunt Eppe also if you are interested in completing your collection of all of the items they offered in Toonerville. The building and figure artwork was all done by Ward Kimball who was a Fontaine Fox fan.  

I own an Aunt Eppe trailer and it's an "operating" car.   Specifically, Aunt Eppe bounces up and down as a result of a metal cog on the front axle beneath her which pushes a rod up and down that runs through a hole in the bottom of the trailer and pushes Aunt Eppe up and down.   Coupled to a rocking Toonerville trolley, the two make for a lot of action.

Below is a photo containing several RichArt Toonerville items including one of the pair of small turntables designed to turn the trolley around at the end of the line.  The other one is located at the opposite end of the trolley line. 

In operation a metal bumper located low on the front of the trolley hits a vertical metal bar at the very end of the turntable.  This shuts off power to the turntable's track and then causes the turntable to rotate 180 degrees.  At this point power to the track is turned back on allowing the trolley to run off the turntable and reverse its direction down the track.  It then runs down the track to the opposite end where it runs onto the other turntable, hits its vertical metal bar, which starts the turning process  again.  In this fashion the Toonerville trolley can back and forth on the trolley line for hours without attention.

Bob Nelson

Nice trolley and station!

Here is the Toonerville Standard Gauge loop I had on my last layout. The track is made from O-31 curves that I mounted on Standard Gauge ties. The small 4-wheel trolley obviously had no trouble with the tighter curve.

A little later on, I added a station "stop" light that I picked up while visiting the RichArt shops a few years back.  It is made from brass and the lantern does light. When I saw it, I knew exactly what I wanted to use it for. So out came the Marx spotlight...

These Toonervilles trolleys are a hoot to operate and everyone seems to love watching them run.

ARNO

It would  be   nice to see MTH make this as a set building figures etc. I sure would get one. 

Please explain why MTH needs to make one of these?

the bump and return action reminds me of the original Turner Toys Turnerville Trolley from 1919. Used a spring-loaded station house with a return spring at the other end of the track to return the trolley.

moderneraSG posted:

Please explain why MTH needs to make one of these?

Arno,

It's amazing to me that you have to ask this question.  Your "Modern Era Standard Gauge" exists because there is still a market for Standard Gauge and the companies that originally made it either no longer do or have gone out of business.  In this instance, there appears to still be a market for a new tinplate Toonerville trolley and C&M/RichArt no longer exist.  Since MTH got its start making reproduction tinplate trains and still does, it's a logical choice to make a new reproduction of a tinplate Toonerville trolley.  

Bob Nelson

Yes, but they already exist. They made thousands of these Toonervilles, what is the advantage for MTH to make a run of a couple hundred? It is not like you're asking for something that doesn't exist in SG.

MESG exists because there were many who wanted more than what the big companies could/would offer.

I just don't understand the logic that MTH has to make it for it to be accepted.

ARNO

I agree Bob.  I only buy Reproduction tinplate. Why  that's what I like . I have repainted a few buildings. I want everything to look new. I don't want something with half the paint flaked off.  Just Me and that is what makes the Hobby.   O gauge and Standard gauge I would buy one of each.  Standard gauge Armor set would be nice also.

I guess the fact that these Toonerville trolleys were made by one of the best, if not the best, train makers of our time doesn't mean much? Dick Mayer, the man behind the RichArt Company had more to do with modern tinplate trains of any gauge than anyone else. He was a true craftsman when it came to making tinplate trains. But for some reason some people would rather have something put together in another country by people who have no vested interest in the final product, just for the name.

I can understand wanting trains that are bright and shiny, but there is much more out there than the limited offerings by the big prewar train makers. Bright and shiny or not, they do exist and they are a breath of fresh air.

ARNO

Arno,

"Thousands"?  Where did you get that number? 

As you know RichArt either "made to order" or made in small "batches" as Dick didn't have the resources and his shop didn't have the room to make and store much more than a "batch" at a time until he sold what he had on hand to get the resources and room to make and store more.  

I agree the market for a "new" Toonerville trolley is tiny and, therefore, it would likely be unprofitable for MTH to fill.  Hence, I don't see them building a Toonerville trolley any time soon but, someone else might.  

As for those who want "new" tinplate that is also "affordable", MTH is about the only remaining source.  I would prefer that it was manufactured in the USA but unfortunately it's not.  So until new American manufacturers start producing new affordable tinplate, I encourage everyone to order and buy MTH's tinplate to hopefully keep that source in production.

Bob Nelson

navy.seal posted:

"Thousands"?  Where did you get that number?

From Dick Mayer himself. You have to remember, the majority of these trolleys were made for Lyle Cain Enterprises with the help from Ward Kimball and were sold thru Lyle. Lyle was after all, the "Skipper". There is a huge market for Toonerville items outside our little train world, they even have their own Toonerville Collectors Club. Dick told me that he easily made 3000-3500 of these in O gauge. I can easily believe that lower number as I have seen many out there in all sorts of collections. The first run was for 500 pieces in themid-80's and that was before they knew if it would sell. Now the SG and G gauge version were made in very small numbers compared to the O gauge trolley.

As far as RichArt being a "made-to-order" company, that was more true in his latter years when he didn't want to take on too much. Many of the items he produced were brought and sold at shows and he never had a large on-hand completed inventory. He didn't need one.

Now, here is where we differ... I would never use the words "new" and "affordable" in the same sentence about MTH. Sure they are making new items, can't argue that. but I won't go and call them as affordable, I would call them the only game in town and there is no way you can compare prices when there is no other supplier. To me, I can pick up a fairly recent, unused MTH 400e (in most any color) for about $400 on the open market... to me that affordable. MTH is a business and they are not going to produce anything that they are not going to make money on, and the margins need to be there for the profit.

And technically speaking, the C&M / RichArt Toonerville trolley is a powered reproduction of the German-made Nifty Toonerville mechanical floor toy.

ARNO

Arno,

I am confused.  Is MTH tinplate affordable or not?  Like you (?), I have purchased on the secondary market many new MTH products at an affordable price.  IMHO, they are affordable now only because MTH made more than the market for them really needed so their price quickly dropped on the secondary market, i.e., the axiom of "Supply and Demand" at work.  Unfortunately, unless trends change the market for new toy trains and particularly new SG tinplate toy trains will continue to shrink and unless firms like MTH still produce it, in the not to distant future new or like-new MESG will not be available/affordable to anyone but collectors with deep pockets.

Bob

Bob, I'm more confused. You are talking more about obtainability than affordability. MTH can make what they want and put any price on it, does that make it affordable? No, it just becomes obtainable.

My point here is not to why MTH should make something, but more why any thread on this forum that talks about something different always comes down to "MTH/Lionel should make it". Why can't people be happy with what already exists? Why does it need to be re-made to become acceptable?

Trains have been made for over half a century, some in small numbers, by craftsmen and small manufactures not to reproduce a train, but to introduce a train into the Standard Gauge market place that had not been made prior (ie: Hudson, 0-6-0 switcher, diesels, streamliners, camelbacks, etc.). I could care less if people want to collect these trains or not, but don't discount them just because they have not been repro'd.

ARNO

One of the wonderful things about  toy trains is that nobody is forced to buy something that they don't want----somebody else will probably buy it.  Toonerville is a winner and fun,as  are  all of the MTH tin toys from the 90's.   Sign me up.

Norm

Arno,

IMHO you are confusing MSRP with market price.  As you said, "To me, I can pick up a fairly recent, unused MTH 400e (in most any color) for about $400 on the open market... to me that affordable."  I agree with you, which is why I said "new" MTH SG is "affordable", whereas "new" MESG like RichArt, Randall, Liberty Lines, etc. either doesn't exist or if it's in "like-new" condition is not affordable.  When was the last time you saw a like-new Randall Hudson, or like-new Liberty Lines 600e, or like-new RichArt Bipolar, or like-new MESG other than MTH sell for $400 on the open market?  

Bob

It's not a fair comparison. The difference is one is a reproduction that in most cases will never be worth its MSRP and the others are free-lance designs that were made by small companies and not over-produced.

So, if you're expecting MTH to make something so you can buy it for half price on the open market a year later, I bet they won't make it. That's not the customer they are looking for.

ARNO

A link to a STG Toonerville trolley running on 31 5 rail track. Struggled on the curves but made it.

The static display is a O-Gauge Toonerville trolley.

Jim,

Thanks for posting that video of the SGMA's layout at the WGHT Dulles train show which highlights two types of Standard Gauge Toonerville trolleys.   One is the RichArt Toonerville trolley (and RichArt Toonerville station), that I brought to the show but I have forgotten (senor moment), who made the much larger trolley running on the track.  Do you recall who made it?

Bob Nelson