Track Plan Recommendations

Steve, maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see where changing the doors does Dave any good. He still can’t expand the bench work into the area or he covers the closet entry. Even if he could, he has to worry about being able to reach the upper left corner on the Office Room where the Wye comes through the wall. If he tries to move the turntable lower, the roundhouse will need to be rotated further into the upper aisleway and the bench work will cut off access to the upper left corner. Running track through the closet also doesn’t do any good because the turntable is there. That was an idea before the turntable came into the picture.

Where he needs space to be safe is on the right side where the O-72 loop is. Based on his dimensions that space is 79”. Centering the loop in the area gives him 3.36” from the center rail to both the top wall and the bottom desk. John says a “scale” Big Boy needs 3.25”, so while it looks good in SCARM, I’m not convinced.

Based on this photo he posted, the area where the desk will be is actually open space, there is no physical wall. I believe he intends to remove the expansion piece, but I don’t know if the desk is being rotated or how the bench work fits with this photo. If the desk stays the way it is and he removes the expansion piece, does he have room to get to the chair. Can the track be positioned closer to the edge there so it can a little further from the wall on the other side. I also see now that he has a piece of equipment mounted to the wall by the chair that needs to be considered when placing the loop. Right now the loop position is based on the wall, not that piece of equipment, unless his 339” dimension took it into consideration.

The other thing I don’t know is how high the current bench work is. I don’t have any problem with how  the current bench work is built. I get that it’s away from the walls and he’s going to do something the keep trains from accidentally falling down the stairs, but I’m having a hard time figuring out this desk area and the green rectangles. In this photo, where does the 79” wide bench work fit in? Does it come to the edge of the current desk so when he removes the expansion piece he has access to the desk (2nd photo)?

@DoubleDAZ All valid points and good questions for @davehall83 to answer.

I was thinking, depending on the size of the actual desk (below size is only a guess) and how much space Dave needs behind the desk for seating and walk through to the closet, that maybe the office furniture could be moved over to the left near the closet.  This move could potentially open up a lot of space on the right side of the office for the O72 reversing loop clearances, yard, turntable, and buildings.

Dave Hall, is this something you want to consider?  If so, it would be helpful to know actual desk dimensions and where you'd want it placed here on the Left side of the office/hall door.

@davehall83 posted:

@gunrunnerjohn

One day i may have to see your store hennings trains it was on my list last time i went to PA im not that far from pa. I like going up there because i like seeing all the train store even like nichlas smiths trains etc. I like to goto things like these. I heard there maybe some good train shows that come up to york PA that maybe better than the greenberg train show? I like to see the really big shows that have like multiple warehouses of stuff and if its all catered to O gauge even better, know of any?

There's the Allentown Train Show that runs twice a year, it's a really good show and large enough to draw people from hours away.  The next one is Feb 26-27.  If you get to PA, let me know, maybe you can drop in for a visit.

As for my yard space, I made a conscious decision not to get carried away with buildings and industries.  I may regret that later, but I figure it's probably easier to add track that be ripping out track.

Steve, I’ve already posted a design with the turntable and roundhouse on the right. Granted, it wasn’t with the desk reconfigured, but if you look at the desk, it has 2 screens and the large TV on it. I doubt he’s willing, maybe not even able, to relocate the TV. And even if he can, where would a yard go where that whole complex won’t have reach issues. Since there’s no wall by the desk, he can probably put the track closer to that side to give a little more room against the walls.

Unless you have unlimited room, there is always tradeoffs between features on a layout, that's inevitable.  There are tons of features I wish I had the room for, but reality set in and I went with what would fit in the space I have.  There's also the reality that building a really huge layout takes a ton of time!  I have invested a bunch of time in my layout, and I'm not even close to the finish line (wherever that is).

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Dave,

Off-hand I don't know of a current large engine, like the Big Boy, that will work with less than O-72 curves. MTH made a version that ran of O-31 curves back in 1996, but I don't know about others and I don't know if you'd want one because I doubt it has the details that make it impressive. However, if you are willing to keep any engine that needs O-72 in the Train Room, then we can do more with O-54 curves in the Office Room. I just don't want to tell you that  just because I think we can get O-72 curves to fit that doesn't mean some engines won't hit the wall coming out of the curves.

Anyway, here's the last version for tonight. Even switching to O-54 curves, I think this kind of configuration will be the best bet. Note that I reworked the spurs on the left to make room for some buildings and I'm not sure that will work with what you mentioned.

Just my opinion but the turntable seems like an unnecessary luxury for the space. I'd also loose most of the turnouts on the left and a few on the right unless the goal is all track and no buildings or scenery.

@Dave Ripp. posted:

Just my opinion but the turntable seems like an unnecessary luxury for the space. I'd also loose most of the turnouts on the left and a few on the right unless the goal is all track and no buildings or scenery.

Just trying to give Dave what he wants, the final decision is up to him. Designs don’t cost anything but time, which I’ve got plenty of. 🤪

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Just trying to give Dave what he wants, the final decision is up to him. Designs don’t cost anything but time, which I’ve got plenty of. 🤪

Sorry Dave that was for the original poster not you. Your designs and the free time you put in still amaze me. I just see so many folks that think they have to have a turntable and a million sidings. Sometimes people need to accept your space limitations. Just an opinion.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Steve, I’ve already posted a design with the turntable and roundhouse on the right. Granted, it wasn’t with the desk reconfigured, but if you look at the desk, it has 2 screens and the large TV on it. I doubt he’s willing, maybe not even able, to relocate the TV. And even if he can, where would a yard go where that whole complex won’t have reach issues. Since there’s no wall by the desk, he can probably put the track closer to that side to give a little more room against the walls.

Dave, after spending some time reconfiguring the bench and trying different options I envisioned in my head here's what I found.

A decent sized turntable and round house (like the ones in your latest version) won't fit on the right in the space currently occupied by the desk unless a smaller TT with short whiskers and a smaller or no engine house.  A small yard and some buildings could possibly go there as well.

Going back to a modified version of one of your earlier options could also possibly work, if allowed some narrow aisles.  Here's an unpolished look as what that might look like:

If there's any further interest in this I can include the SCARM file.

EDIT: Another option to increase space on the left side of the office entrance (besides a pocket door) would be to either reverse the office/hall door to swing outward into the hall or remove it.

Steve, that’s pretty good, so we’ll have to see what Dave has to say about all this. Always good to have options to consider. I still don’t think he’ll move the desk because if the TV, but who knows?

@Dave Ripp. posted:

Sorry Dave that was for the original poster not you. Your designs and the free time you put in still amaze me. I just see so many folks that think they have to have a turntable and a million sidings. Sometimes people need to accept your space limitations. Just an opinion.

Too many Dave’s in this thread. 🤣🤣🤣

Anyway, I didn’t think you were directing that at me, just felt compelled to comment. It may not be right, but given the space, I’d design most of the layout, including the TT/RH for the smaller engines. I might try to configure things so a large engine could cross the TT for maintenance, but not be turned. I’d use a 27” TT and a smaller version of the Altoona RH.

I get a headache talking about TTs and RHs because the configurations are all different. Korber’s can go closer to the TT because the angles are so wide. Altoona’s have to be further away so engines will clear the doors with the tighter angles. However, they have more stalks in a given width. They make a 50” version where the back wall is 55” from the center of the TT. They also make a 60” version that is 60” from the center. Both can have the back wall of each stall extended 3” while the 60” can also have the front wall extended 3”.

Just in case, here's a version of Steve's design. I used a 27" TT because the 33" was too close to the tracks or would have gone too deep into the aisle. IMHO, the 27" is too deep unless it's just used to clear track.

Dave, I know you've already nixed the idea of the TT/RH on the right, but we'd be remiss if we didn't at least show you a version like this. I didn't change the doors like Steve did, too lazy tonight.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Steve, maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see where changing the doors does Dave any good. He still can’t expand the bench work into the area or he covers the closet entry. Even if he could, he has to worry about being able to reach the upper left corner on the Office Room where the Wye comes through the wall. If he tries to move the turntable lower, the roundhouse will need to be rotated further into the upper aisleway and the bench work will cut off access to the upper left corner. Running track through the closet also doesn’t do any good because the turntable is there. That was an idea before the turntable came into the picture.

Where he needs space to be safe is on the right side where the O-72 loop is. Based on his dimensions that space is 79”. Centering the loop in the area gives him 3.36” from the center rail to both the top wall and the bottom desk. John says a “scale” Big Boy needs 3.25”, so while it looks good in SCARM, I’m not convinced.

Based on this photo he posted, the area where the desk will be is actually open space, there is no physical wall. I believe he intends to remove the expansion piece, but I don’t know if the desk is being rotated or how the bench work fits with this photo. If the desk stays the way it is and he removes the expansion piece, does he have room to get to the chair. Can the track be positioned closer to the edge there so it can a little further from the wall on the other side. I also see now that he has a piece of equipment mounted to the wall by the chair that needs to be considered when placing the loop. Right now the loop position is based on the wall, not that piece of equipment, unless his 339” dimension took it into consideration.

The other thing I don’t know is how high the current bench work is. I don’t have any problem with how  the current bench work is built. I get that it’s away from the walls and he’s going to do something the keep trains from accidentally falling down the stairs, but I’m having a hard time figuring out this desk area and the green rectangles. In this photo, where does the 79” wide bench work fit in? Does it come to the edge of the current desk so when he removes the expansion piece he has access to the desk (2nd photo)?

@DoubleDAZ

Catching up here to answer your questions.

1. The benchwork is 41 1/4 to the top of the plywood in the train room

2. Yes the desk extension piece will be removed or i will find a new desk that will fit the space better, last resort i will take the desk out of the office and put it in my bedroom

@SteveH posted:

@DoubleDAZ All valid points and good questions for @davehall83 to answer.

I was thinking, depending on the size of the actual desk (below size is only a guess) and how much space Dave needs behind the desk for seating and walk through to the closet, that maybe the office furniture could be moved over to the left near the closet.  This move could potentially open up a lot of space on the right side of the office for the O72 reversing loop clearances, yard, turntable, and buildings.

Dave Hall, is this something you want to consider?  If so, it would be helpful to know actual desk dimensions and where you'd want it placed here on the Left side of the office/hall door.

@SteveH

Yes i would consider this option, the pocket door i would have to see if it would be doable with that wall, it may not be able to but its a consideration

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

There's the Allentown Train Show that runs twice a year, it's a really good show and large enough to draw people from hours away.  The next one is Feb 26-27.  If you get to PA, let me know, maybe you can drop in for a visit.

As for my yard space, I made a conscious decision not to get carried away with buildings and industries.  I may regret that later, but I figure it's probably easier to add track that be ripping out track.

@gunrunnerjohn

Yeah i will need to put that on my calendar if i can get time this February to come up i may just have to drop by! This is only about 3 hours from me roughly 211 miles well worth the trip

@Dave Ripp. posted:

Sorry Dave that was for the original poster not you. Your designs and the free time you put in still amaze me. I just see so many folks that think they have to have a turntable and a million sidings. Sometimes people need to accept your space limitations. Just an opinion.

@Dave Ripp.

Yeah i get it, i thought the turn table would be a cool option to have but your right i could have lots of scenary and buildings in place of this

@DoubleDAZ

I saw your reply too and yes im the one influencing more track than scenary which is probably going against what i orignally wanted but i like to have switching and track options to run the train too but i do need to think about having some more scenary and buildings im sure. I havent even started building yet this is all planning and maybe i need to consider that over a turntable but i dont want to cut that out just yet because i will admit an altoona roundhouse and turntable are just cool IMO

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Just in case, here's a version of Steve's design. I used a 27" TT because the 33" was too close to the tracks or would have gone too deep into the aisle. IMHO, the 27" is too deep unless it's just used to clear track.

Dave, I know you've already nixed the idea of the TT/RH on the right, but we'd be remiss if we didn't at least show you a version like this. I didn't change the doors like Steve did, too lazy tonight.

@DoubleDAZ

I actually believe it or not lol i like this idea! I can certianly move the desk like that, the TV i dont care about thats just there i hardly every use it. Looks like i could get some scenary and buildings in with this too. The fun part would be having someone build my benchwork for this lol but yes i like this, the doors we can leave as is, the pocket door may cost a bit to have that wall modified to take that. The closet door i could work around or leave as is too and i could shroten my desk as long as i can have 2 monitors on it and my keyboard i am good.

Here's the full layout, not shown in the diagram is the large center cutout.  Drawing that in Anyrail turns out to be somewhat of a PITA.

As you can see, the TT is pretty tight,  but it's functional for smaller engines, diesels and steam the size of a Hudson or smaller.  I do have a lot of open space, and I'm thinking about what kind of scenery to use to fill the space now.

@davehall83 posted:

I havent even started building yet this is all planning and maybe i need to consider that over a turntable but i dont want to cut that out just yet because i will admit an altoona roundhouse and turntable are just cool IMO

I didn't start with a turntable because I really didn't think I could possibly fit one in.  At the 11th hour I got looking at the little Atlas 24" model and decided to cram it in on the end.  It's nothing like the TT I'd really like to have, but it fit in the space I had.  It's also pretty cool and functional, it scratches that itch.

Dave, in the latest version, the desk measures 34"x90", are those the correct numbers?

Here's new view of the latest version with the TT/RH in the upper right and some buildings added.

@DoubleDAZ

I measure the exact measurements of the desk its 63 x 47 1/4. Thats with that extension piece taken off but that is exact measurements. By the way i love the latest drawing! Thanks for that!

Thanks, Dave. I assume the one I have marked is 47 1/4, but how about the shorter one marked with a question mark? Is that perhaps 34”? That’s the one that will be buy the closet door.

@gunrunnerjohn

That is one nice layout i like it, how did you make that benchwork look that good that sure is some good carpentry skills and love the room you got in the basement for it.

Also how did you draw it? I would love to see what you do for scenary but yeah im probably going to be in the same place as you doing it last.

I spoke to anyrail and they are adding the cut track section piece for sectional track in their next update.  This is what they said to me:

"The 'Cut track' function will be in the next major version of AnyRail. This particular function is already in the development version of it, but the rest of the release still needs quite some time for completion. This will only be for straight and curved track, not for turnouts.

However, I don't think you should wait for it as we have no release date yet.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Thanks, Dave. I assume the one I have marked is 47 1/4, but how about the shorter one marked with a question mark? Is that perhaps 34”? That’s the one that will be buy the closet door.

The file cabinet is 15 wide by 26 3/8 deep

Sorry, I only put the ? mark there so you could see it, I meant that end of the desk that is circled. It looks about the same as the file cabinet though.

@davehall83 posted:

@gunrunnerjohn

That is one nice layout i like it, how did you make that benchwork look that good that sure is some good carpentry skills and love the room you got in the basement for it.

Also how did you draw it? I would love to see what you do for scenary but yeah im probably going to be in the same place as you doing it last.

I spoke to anyrail and they are adding the cut track section piece for sectional track in their next update.  This is what they said to me:

"The 'Cut track' function will be in the next major version of AnyRail. This particular function is already in the development version of it, but the rest of the release still needs quite some time for completion. This will only be for straight and curved track, not for turnouts.

However, I don't think you should wait for it as we have no release date yet.

I wish I could claim credit for the great carpentry on the layout, but sadly it wouldn't look anything like this if it wasn't for the efforts of @Tom Tee, a true master carpenter!  I just went along as the apprentice on this ride, and I learned a lot in the process!

I used AnyRail for my track planning, but a few times at track was going down, I'd do the track and then go back and update my AnyRail drawing to reflect the changes.

The nice thing about using Gargraves flex track is all the cutting and shaping is already in AnyRail.  You can stretch and bend all you want, and they have smoothing functions in the program so you just hack the track in and then tell it to smooth it.

I don't have to wait for a new version of AnyRail at this point, any track changes I do right now will be minor.  I have a couple of ideas, but I'm still mulling them over.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Sorry, I only put the ? mark there so you could see it, I meant that end of the desk that is circled. It looks about the same as the file cabinet though.

Oh got it, the file cabinet may go to another room when this is all said and done but you got it right on what the 47 1/4inch piece of the desk is

@DoubleDAZ

Is it safe to say i should be good with this final drawing now to proceed with purchasing the track? I want to double check first. Also if i ever wanted to elevate the track at all anywhere in the train room is it a big deal to make some of the existing track go up in elevations? Im not saying lets change everything around to find out but i am just curious if i want some of that later on or if i want to make some gradual elevations to similate mountains terrain if thats a big deal and the same amount of track and pieces still work? Do you think i should do anymore research or ready any articles or certain books before i make my final decision on buying the materials just to make sure im good with everything?

Dave, do you mean the drawing with the desk moved to the closet area? Or the desk where the green rectangles were?

@DoubleDAZ

I am leaning to the one that has the one with the desk near the closet area, i also like the other one too with the bigger altoona house but then i dont get any rail yards so i think the one with the desk near the closet is the winner. This will definately be a slow purchase lol i got my parts list on ross track for the one with the desk near the closet area and it runs $3,300 just for the train room items and if i do both its about 8K.

@DoubleDAZ

One thing about the turn table i see ross states that  Most non articulated engines will fit on a 27 turntable. Curiosity is, what will not fit or what is non articulated? I am wondering if i do more of the fancy engines if they wont fit. Will everything with the desk on the left allow for a 33" turntable, i am thinking that's a no but i know you said that you didn't see much use out of a 33" because of the sacrifice for space I put the rectangles up here that show items in my office.

I am showing the exact dimensions of a different desk i will get to fit this space better and a storage shelf for train parts and a file cabinet which if i need to i can move it out of this room. These items are also negotiable i almost thought about clearing the office out entirely to have it nothing but track and just deal without an office to get this all in here.

Does anyone think maybe a turntable is taking up way too much space for other things? Whats everyones opinion here if its a waste or i will regret getting it. I can say i love turntables but whats it buying me? "Dont remove it yet" this is just up for debate for everyones opinion". I am pretty 100% locked in on all item sin the train room on the left side of this drawing. I may cut some spurs around who knows i will end up fiddling with it over time to make space for my industries but i can always go up or even down with levels that are not attached to these layouts which would be separately run tracks at different elevations in the room

This is the option with the desk near the closet with the train yard.

@DoubleDAZ

I also edited the model we did with the desk on the right and the 33" turntable just so you have exact dimensions of items.

I am showing the exact dimensions of a different desk i will get to fit this space better and a storage shelf for train parts and a file cabinet which if i need to i can move it out of this room. These items are also negotiable i almost thought about clearing the office out entirely to have it nothing but track and just deal without an office to get this all in here.

Does anyone think maybe a turntable is taking up way too much space for other things? Whats everyones opinion here if its a waste or i will regret getting it. I can say i love turntables but whats it buying me? "Dont remove it yet" this is just up for debate for everyones opinion". I am pretty 100% locked in on all item sin the train room on the left side of this drawing. I may cut some spurs around who knows i will end up fiddling with it over time to make space for my industries but i can always go up or even down with levels that are not attached to these layouts which would be separately run tracks at different elevations in the room

This is the option with the desk on the right side of room

@davehall83 you didn't ask me, but I'll chime in on this.  My advice is that if you are unfamiliar at this time with what an articulated engine is and with what will fit on a 27" turntable, than maybe you would consider a pause before ordering track and deciding on a final plan.  In my opinion it would be wise to spend a bit more time doing some research for yourself into the available locomotives and deciding what interests you now and for your potential future purchases.

When looking at locomotives on their manufacturer's webpage, each locomotive will include specifications including length and other important details.

To answer the question about articulated locomotives, an example would the Big Boy.  There are others too.  What articulated refers to in this context is a steam locomotive with a two section drive train, each with multiple axles, sort of like two closely spaced trucks.  The boiler shell is attached to the rear "truck" and when the locomotive rounds a curve, the boiler pivots to the outside of the curve.

Regarding taking a pause, there is a lot to learn about in this hobby IMO, if you spend a bit more time looking into your options for things like locomotives, bridges, scenery, etc. you may save yourself some frustration down the road by avoiding potential oversights and re-doing work you may decide to change later and the expense of these.

I hope you know that I'm not telling you what to do, rather attempting to offer what may be good advice.

@SteveH posted:

@davehall83 you didn't ask me, but I'll chime in on this.  My advice is that if you are unfamiliar at this time with what an articulated engine is and with what will fit on a 27" turntable, than maybe you would consider a pause before ordering track and deciding on a final plan.  In my opinion it would be wise to spend a bit more time doing some research for yourself into the available locomotives and deciding what interests you now and for your potential future purchases.

When looking at locomotives on their manufacturer's webpage, each locomotive will include specifications including length and other important details.

To answer the question about articulated locomotives, an example would the Big Boy.  There are others too.  What articulated refers to in this context is a steam locomotive with a two section drive train, each with multiple axles, sort of like two closely spaced trucks.  The boiler shell is attached to the rear "truck" and when the locomotive rounds a curve, the boiler pivots to the outside of the curve.

Regarding taking a pause, there is a lot to learn about in this hobby IMO, if you spend a bit more time looking into your options for things like locomotives, bridges, scenery, etc. you may save yourself some frustration down the road by avoiding potential oversights and re-doing work you may decide to change later and the expense of these.

I hope you know that I'm not telling you what to do, rather attempting to offer what may be good advice.

@SteveH

Your probably right, will start doing the research on this. Im not in a rush which is why i have been slow rolling this whole layout.

Dave,

I get wanting the biggest of everything and you can fit pretty much anything you want, but there will be trade-offs. You can put a 33” turntable in either location at the expense of being able to easily reach parts of the layout or have an aisle large enough to get through. Most people want aisles 30” wide, but that’s because they want to be able to walk around with the trains. They also want benchwork that is no more than 30” deep because that’s a comfortable distance to reach. Imagine the Big Boy stopping in the upper right corner of the layout behind the turntable/roundhouse complex. How are you going to get to it? It’s not a light assembly when it’s right in front of you, imagine it being 3’ or more away with a 9” tall roundhouse in the way. Imagine too trying to fix short or some other track problem up there. Not trying to scare you, but things happen on model layouts. BTW, do you have cats? You can build whatever you want as long as you understand the trade-offs.

Ross can say what they want, but that doesn’t make it true. Lionel says their Big Boy is approximately 32” long, but MTH says their Premier version is 35” long. Neither company says what the wheelbase is though. I looked at photos of the Ross turntables and they come fully assembled with no apparent obstructions around the perimeter of the turntable. That should mean that although the MTH is 35” long, the wheelbase is probably less than 33”, so it should fit, but the front/rear might overhang when being turned. Ross also says the 33” turntable assembly is 39” square, so that has to be taken into consideration. Here are links to some videos, one showing the Ross 33” turntable and some showing overhang. Check the 3rd one at about 11.5-12:00 minutes in, you can see the overhang on the articulated Big Boy coming out of the tunnel. Note how the boiler doesn’t move with the front set of wheels because it’s attached to the rear set of wheels.

https://youtu.be/DOzVfBd4zJw
https://youtu.be/8z9h-l2n8FA
https://youtu.be/OqRZCB5rBng

BTW, I haven’t said anything about the reach issues in the Train Room because so far you don’t have obstacles like a roundhouse in the way, the table is already built and you seem okay with your current FasTrack layout. Change it to Ross O-72 curves further away, add a Big Boy to the mix and you might find things a bit different. Trust me, I’ve visited many O and G scale layouts around the country from California to Florida to New Jersey, trains stop in the worst places for no reason regardless of how much they cost and how well the layouts are built. But only you can determine how much you’re willing to deal with should problems come up.

@DoubleDAZ

Yeah i get it, i know some of the reach issues are a pain now in that train room and i have to climb up on the table to get to the far corners which does suck. But i have to live with that issue now. What you say does make sense and if changing things up starts that issue with the bigger turntable then i probably don’t want to put the bug 33 inch turn table in the office then. My fast track layout had O72 curves.

I do have cats but i have a product that sets off an ultrasonic sound that runs them away if they get near it’s trained them on a motion sensor that’s they never went to go in my train area lol i already thought about that.

I have a top side creeper for the train room but its not ideal lol

@davehall83 posted:

One thing about the turn table i see ross states that  Most non articulated engines will fit on a 27 turntable. Curiosity is, what will not fit or what is non articulated? I am wondering if i do more of the fancy engines if they wont fit. Will everything with the desk on the left allow for a 33" turntable, i am thinking that's a no but i know you said that you didn't see much use out of a 33" because of the sacrifice for space I put the rectangles up here that show items in my office.

Well, my scale T1 Duplex 4-4-4-4 isn't an articulated locomotive, nor is the PRR S-1 6-4-4-6, but I know for sure those won't even come close to fitting on a 27" TT.   The Legacy M1a with the long haul tender is 30" long...

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, my scale T1 Duplex 4-4-4-4 isn't an articulated locomotive, nor is the PRR S-1 6-4-4-6, but I know for sure those won't even come close to fitting on a 27" TT.   The Legacy M1a with the long haul tender is 30" long...

I was wondering how big your turn table is on your layout ?