Transformer Troubleshooting Diagnostics

There is a specific procedure for setting the accessory output voltage on CW-80's.  Just checking - did you follow the below steps ?

Setting the accessory output of your Lionel CW-80 Transformer!

You choose how much power your accessories need. Your CW-80 Transformer features a programmable accessory output. The ability to control the voltage allows you to set the speed of your accessory motors and the intensity of your lights. Follow these steps to set the voltage.

The accessory voltage was set to 12 volts at the factory.

1. Bring the throttle all the way back to turn off the power.
2. Press and hold down the DIRECTION, WHISTLE/HORN, and BELL buttons on the Controller. The green light on the Transformer will flash and track power will turn off.
3. With all three buttons held down, raise the throttle slowly until you reach your desired accessory voltage.
4. Release the buttons once you have reached your desired voltage. The solid green light indicates that you have set the accessory voltage.
5. Bring the throttle all the way back to turn off the power. At this point, increasing the throttle again will control track power

@MikePGT81 posted:

I am seeing conflicting info across user different Lionel and O gauge groups related to troubleshooting two of my transformers. Please share your thoughts what is possible repair solution.

In all cases, wire U (hot?) post is connected to center rail and wire A (common ?) posts are connected to outer rail. These are modern locomotives.

Modern CW80 - bell button operates whistle, whistle button no effect. Separate Accessory voltage varies with throttle as indicated by 022 switch lights.

Vintage LW - whistle button does not activate whistle. Whistle button gives loco a power boost. Throttle works normal. Accessory powers 022 switches.

If I could I would use CW80 to run loco and use LW to powers switches. Is it OK to have shared common çonnected to different transformers ?

The conflicting info relates to center outer rail connecting to U A or A U for modern vs vintage and one user specifically stated LW transformer was different than other lionel transformers.

Thanks

So catch22- not ALL CW80 transformers are the same!!!! Again, huge problem that lionel kept using the same name and made changes over time and different technical models and details.

The problem is, some CW80s have the Red posts both between track variable output and accessory is the "common" in the transformer.

later models fixed this, and correctly have the black terminals being common and the red terminals separate.

Why this is a huge problem is that on a typical layout, we expect black to common to outside rail, but also common to accessories- especially ones that use insulated rail section to activate the accessory using common being black terminal.

If you reverse the terminals red and black (red to outer rail and center to black) then you ALSO reverse the functions of the bell and whistle buttons.

Again, #1 identify if you have a CW-80 with common red terminals or common black terminals. Easy to test with the transformer off and unplugged, just use a meter to check for continuity between the 2 red posts, and then the 2 black posts and determine which are shorted together internally in the transformer.

If you do in fact have a Red post common variant- this is hugely problematic when trying to use the accessory output for example to power switches that are also common to the track.

You can reverse the wiring, and use red post to outside rail, and then the black post to center rail and accessory black post to the switch power- however this also reverses bell and whistle function.

FWIW, a post describing details of CW80 series by the serial number on the bottom of them https://ogrforum.com/...645#7624677689491645

@MikePGT81 posted:

Modern CW80 - bell button operates whistle, whistle button no effect. Separate Accessory voltage varies with throttle as indicated by 022 switch lights.

Again, this symptom of what I would call cross talk- where the variable throttle channel appears to vary accessory voltage- most likely indicates you have an early CW80 revision that is red posts in common, and because of that, it wreaks chaos when you wire it up "normally" with black as common to outside rail- because the transformer internally is built and designed around red being common.

And, while you can reverse that wiring, and wire red post to outer rail, and respective black post to accessory power of the switches and 3rd rail of the track, then bell and whistle buttons are reversed.

And if you used another transformer, you have to properly phase everything as properly wired- or else you will add voltages up between the 2 transformers and really damage something.

Well lookie there, I just learned something new. I was always under the impression that the "U" terminal was "common" and went to the outside rail.

@Jayhawk500 posted:

Well lookie there, I just learned something new. I was always under the impression that the "U" terminal was "common" and went to the outside rail.

It's trying to be a standard, and a huge swath of people in this hobby, that is the way many layouts and transformers are wired.

But the problem is- it was not always a followed standard in manufacturing various transformers over time. And that's the bigger problem, because you have to know what transformers do have U as common, and what ones do not.

Postwar Lionel put out a chart that shows the common terminal for all of their transformers. That chart is in all of the service manuals. It really does not mater which wire is used as a common, what is of concern what you do with the other wire. If the LW is used only to power switches, the second wire should never come in contact to any other transformer so there should be no problem.

@David Johnston posted:

Postwar Lionel put out a chart that shows the common terminal for all of their transformers. That chart is in all of the service manuals. It really does not mater which wire is used as a common, what is of concern what you do with the other wire. If the LW is used only to power switches, the second wire should never come in contact to any other transformer so there should be no problem.

My Goldberg service book arrives this week. I've seen the matrix chart showing power/common and xformer model post identifiers and this pages.

I now have a modern CW80 manual which has an error in the diagram vs  narrative.   

@Richie C. posted:

There is a specific procedure for setting the accessory output voltage on CW-80's.  Just checking - did you follow the below steps ?

Setting the accessory output of your Lionel CW-80 Transformer!

You choose how much power your accessories need. Your CW-80 Transformer features a programmable accessory output. The ability to control the voltage allows you to set the speed of your accessory motors and the intensity of your lights. Follow these steps to set the voltage.

The accessory voltage was set to 12 volts at the factory.

1. Bring the throttle all the way back to turn off the power.
2. Press and hold down the DIRECTION, WHISTLE/HORN, and BELL buttons on the Controller. The green light on the Transformer will flash and track power will turn off.
3. With all three buttons held down, raise the throttle slowly until you reach your desired accessory voltage.
4. Release the buttons once you have reached your desired voltage. The solid green light indicates that you have set the accessory voltage.
5. Bring the throttle all the way back to turn off the power. At this point, increasing the throttle again will control track power

Thanks for sharing. My casual search for CW80 use did not highlight a programmable accessory output. I now have cw80 pdf. Thanks again.

@MikePGT81 posted:

…In all cases, wire U (hot?) post is connected to center rail and wire A (common ?) posts are connected to outer rail. These are modern locomotives.

Modern CW80 - bell button operates whistle, whistle button no effect. Separate Accessory voltage varies with throttle as indicated by 022 switch lights.

Vintage LW - whistle button does not activate whistle. Whistle button gives loco a power boost. Throttle works normal. Accessory powers 022 switches…

ALL OF YOU MISSED THIS! The OP has the transformer connected BACKWARDS!

The “U” terminal goes to the OUTER (common) rail. The “A” terminal goes to the center rail. That’s why the buttons work backwards or not at all.

@Rich Melvin posted:

ALL OF YOU MISSED THIS! The OP has the transformer connected BACKWARDS!

The “U” terminal goes to the OUTER (common) rail. The “A” terminal goes to the center rail. That’s why the buttons work backwards or not at all.

See image pulled from cw80 manual. Another post reference mis-wired A U would give Bell button whistle control. When instructions have contradictions, it was time to ask for expert help. we are now up and running on cw80.

and the accessory program steps didn't work either. A modified process did work.

Throttle off

Set throttle to output voltage

press three buttons - light flashes

Release three buttons

Move throttle to zero off