Turning engines

With modern multi-unit diesel consists, the general practice is to have a loco facing forward on either end so there is no need to turn a consist at the end of a run.

 

I put in some time at the huge North Platte diesel shop (and major hump yard site) and there were no expedient turning facilities. Figure about half of the locos are headed east and half west. You just put together a multiple unit consist with a unit facing forward on each end.

 

The few turntables still in operation are perhaps used most often for turning flangers or snowplows.

 

For single-unit diesel operation on branch lines, there is usually no need to turn the loco except to enhance visibility ahead. Mechanically, a diesel-electric will run and track equally well in either direction.

I have yet to see a train with today's monster locomotives running with the lead unit "backwards."

 

Rusty

In San Bernardino, we have a WYE....so we have to wye the consist or the lead unit.

We have a couple trains that are designated to have a double ended consist to run either direction.

Most road switchers use a double or triple unit consist with a unit facing each direction because when they are out doing industry work, there is no way to turn around. The engineer just swaps ends to run back the other direction.

They used to ... 

 

 

Thats not neccessarily backwards... many of those engines were set up to run long hood forward, and there was an "F" on the side sill to designate the rear was actually the front

 

Plus, Virginian had their Train Masters set up long hood forward:

 

And Canadian Pacific had two of these beasties: (note the short hood is full width to contain two steam generators)

 

But neither of these correspond to contemporary railroading, which is what I assume the OP was about.

 

Rusty

Usually where the train ends its trip and needs a locomotive to be turned, there is a Wye strategically near by.

The Amtrak passenger trains to Chicago and back are turned on a local wye in Pontiac if needed.

 

 

 

 

The real reason why N&W and Southern held onto long-hood-forward operation for so long was because the crews demanded more headroom in the toilet compartment (in the short hood), and it kept the toilet downwind from the crew. 

Studying various rr's track, the wye is the most common method. One at the shop end and one at the other end or close. Mostly smaller wyes to wye the engines.

 

The Alaska RR has one near Fairbanks(end), one at Eielson AFB(extended end), one built for the Usabelli coal mines, one at Anchorage(main yard) and a clever one at the port of Seward.

Seen it happen today 110 car grain train running with two CSX ES44ACs leading long hood forward. Engineer was complaining that they would have to run 24 miles to a place to turn the lead locomotiv.

Forgot about wyes as a way to compactly turn engines, and can no doubt be integrated into track plans, though might require some looking to see the wye's legs.

Very compact wyes are possible with O31 curves and switches.  

 

 

When I was working on a major project in DC, rather than fly home for the week-end, I'd take Amtrak to Newport News, VA once or twice a month to visit my brother.  The train was turned on a wye for the return trip to DC.

 

When NYS&W sold the Little Ferry yard property to CSX for the Sealand terminal expansion in the early-90s the 1917 roundhouse was torn down. However, the turntable and lead track were left in place. On occasion a locomotive had to be turned due to a bad leader, etc.

Wyhog, I just figured turntables were high maintenance items that could be gotten rid of except where necessary like UP Cheyenne or other steam operations.

While it certainly isn't as common as it used to be, I still see it from time to time on NS in Fort Wayne, especially with road trains powered with only one unit. More than a couple times I have seen empty coal trains with a single C40-9W running LHF.

 

 

 I have ran the NS's A/C motors long hood forward on several empty and loaded coal trains here on the Pokey.

 Back when the NS first got their wide body GE's I ran a 224 car coal train from Williamson,WV to Portsmouth,Ohio.My conductor and I tried to get the dispatcher to turn the consist,since both units were long hood west out of Williamson to no avail.So 112 miles later we came rolling in to P-Town long hood and all.

 

 And a wye off the main line or in a yard will turn the power around rrman.Doesn't take as much room as you would think.The Kenova District has three wye's off the mainline.One at Kenova,WV one at Wolfe Creek Jct. and another at Naguatuck,WV. .Portsmouth Yard also has a wye off of the main one (east bound) behind the yard office.

You can add another at Spokane, Wa to the BNSF list, it is easily seen from Fancher Street.

 

Doug

As of a few years ago, CSX had a turntable at Riverside shops in Baltimore.  It may still be in use too.

For modeling purposes:

Before the use of cranes to load and unload trailers on 89' flats, we had to turn loaded tofc cars on the OKC yard turntable to face them the  proper direction for unloading at our pig ramps.

Today, while the former SLSF yard in OKC is still active under the Stillwater Central RR, the turntable is red flagged, and has been donated to the Oklahoma Railroad Museum (which faces the costly task of moving it).

 

Not a 'real' train but MTH's NS low-nose SD50 is not only marked with an 'F' on the long-hood end, but the engineer figure faces the long hood. Looked odd when I noticed the figure facing away from the low short hood, then also found the unit also configured to start long hood forward too.

 

I shrugged and recalled it was a holdover from N&W practice.

 

---PCJ

BNSF Northtown, just north of Minneapolis has this "engine spinner". I bought an Atlas turntable to represent it. Proof that there is a prototype for everything if you look hard enough.

 

J Daddy,

 

Why would Amtrak turn Chicago trains in Pontiac, IL when there is a wye just outside Union Station where the trains coming from southwest converge with the trains coming around Lake Michigan into Union Station?

 

Chuck

Since Pontiac isn't even remotely close to Chicago Union Station, with a wye just south of the main station, why would Amtrak do such a thing way south in Pontiac?

 

 Something I left out of my earlier post,was the fact that some engines,on the NS for example,have speed-meters located on the inside bulkhead behind the Engineer so when turned around facing long hood you do have one for that direction of travel.

 

 I've heard for years that the FRA frowned on operating long hood lead over a long distance,but sometimes it can't be helped.I've never read anything official. 

 

 And another situation that arises is the absence of ditch lights on the long hood of some engines.Most of the NS's units are equipped with them on long hood,but a lot of the other railroads units aren't.

Here's how NJ Transit does it in Bay Head:

 

 

 

 

Barstow has the "Balloon" track....basically a reverse loop that ties into the lead and 2 different spots on the yard lead. Basically what Yankspride shows above, just not quite that big in space.

The turntable's still in place at BNSF's Clyde diesel shop in Cicero, IL:

 

While over at Corwith, there's a balloon track:

 

 

Rusty

Here are two tables about 20 miles apart in the Cumberland Md area.

The table at the CSX shop is very heavily used, thus the new one!

 

The WMSR's table is at Frostburg, at the shops in Ridgely they have a wye.

 

Ed

 

 

 

Actually, CP had FOUR of them, numbered 8901 to 8904.  Each had two steam generators to handle the cold Canadian winter weather.  Later the steam generators were removed, and the the short hoods narrowed to normal width.  They, as well as the rest of the CP Train Master fleet (21 in total) were converted to short hood forward operation.

 

Stuart

 

 

Title 49, Section 229.125 of the Code of Federal Regulations requires that any leading locomotive operating at a speed greater than 20 MPH over a highway grade crossing must be equipped with auxiliary lights. Ditch lights are considered auxiliary lights and satisfy this requirement. While its getting rarer, we occasionally run across a locomotive that is not equipped with ditch lights on the rear (usually switchers), and in this case must either turn the locomotive, or use a different locomotive as a leader to remove the 20 MPH restriction over crossings.
Most modern locomotive cabs are "ergonomically" designed for crews to run operating in the short hood forward direction, extended reverse movements tend to further decrease the crew's enjoyment of the days activities with strained arms and aching necks.

 But if operating a train without ditch lights,such as long hood without,you can run no more than 50mph,approaching a public crossing no greater than 20 mph prepared to stop.I've had to do this many times.

 

 And if your lights go out completely on the lead motor and are not able to swap motors around or turn the consist,you must run no more than 20 mph,and stop and flag every crossing,also have had to do this before.

Up until the GP38-2s were delivered to the LIRR, all hood units were set up to run long hood forward. The unions insisted on it from the standpoint of crash protection. They wanted a lot of locomotive between them and anything they might hit at the numerous road crossings on Long Island. Think of it as a holdover from steam, with a long boiler between you and anything you might collide with.

Not forgetting the old reverse loops at Fox Lake, WI & Beaver Dam, WI. The Fox Lake loop remnants are still visible on Google Maps, and was featured in Feb 1976 MR magazine.

The turntable at  NS Conway Yard has been removed along with the roundhouse.

 

Correction, my good friend Anthony informed me the TT is still there but the roundhouse is gone.  Current project is a roof over outside service facilities.

 

Pictures from several years ago.