Understanding climate control for general storage and when trains are out and running

My primary concerns would be: moisture; heat above 90 F for storage; cold below 35 F for storage; smoke residue; animal hair; and dust/grit (desert areas).  Mine stay in the boxes, those without boxes are on shelves with painters plastic hanging in front of the shelves.

The small silica packet is usually for the shipping time frame.  You can "regenerate " the silica by baking it at about 125 C for a few hours.   I noticed de-humidifiers in a lot if train layouts I visited on the south and northeast.  Moisture is not a problem in West Texas. 

My stuff is inside the house so temp conditions is not much of an issue.

The train room temp sits in the mid 60's with a constant humidity ranging from 45% or so up to 55% ... no rusting or other problems yet in 10 years.  Got the dehumidifier shortly after doing the bench-work and finding the room at 85% humidity!!  Have a hose running from the dehumidifier sump pump to the train room toilet.  Not ideal, but it works!!

When I first installed the dehumidifier the bucket was filling up twice a day, hence the sump pump setup so I don't have to keep emptying the dehumidifier bucket.

I also set up a box fan with a furnace filter on it in the middle of the layout and my dust problems have been minimized.  Change the filter every 60 days.  It picks up an amazing amount of dust and stuff running on the low speed setting.  Very quiet.  When the trains are running it's not noticeable.

Shoot for 70f and less than 45% rh

Steel does not rust when the humidity is kept below 40%. When the temperature drops the humidity goes up, so a constant temperature will help control high humidity. UV light bleaches the color out of plastic, paint and boxes. Avoid sun light and fluorescent lighting. Many flexible plastic wraps can stain other plastics, like Lionel shells. Do not wrap trains in plastic wrap.   

Protection from moisture is key. My train room is in our basement. With vapor barriers on the walls and floor, and a mini-split heat pump that provides heat in the winter and cooling in the summer, the train room is consistently 68-70 degrees and 45-50% humidity all year. No problems so far. 

I had my trains in a unheated, and no AC or insulation for five years without any problems and I ran all modern electronic trains. Heat got up to 120 in the summer and 0 to 10 degrees in the winter. 

I was surprised I never had an issue. 

"When the temperature drops the humidity goes up"

No - rather the opposite is - or can be - true. Temperature does not "cause" humidity, but humidity - the relative humidity is the proper term -  can be greater with higher temperatures than with lower. 

Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air. That does not mean that it is humid - it just means that it can be more humid. Most deserts are hot and dry (some can be cold and dry - see Mars for an extreme example).

Where I live has long, hot, wet summers. I have never had any equipment humidity issues in my train building. For 27 years. It is cooled or heated only when I am in it, and not at all in the Spring and Fall.

You can see a psychometric chart at this site.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrometrics#

It showed how humidity changes with temperature until you get to the dew point, at which time moisture starts leaving the air as condensate, dew, fog or frost.  

Humidity?? What the *ell is that? We have dry rot in the desert. Trains in the attic??? Um, no way. 

Light kills looks. Moisture rusts.

And secondarily, but not to be ingnored, high heat melts and speeds up many other chemical reactions including the previous two.

Lots of unsealed wood in toolboxes is an old machinists trick for maintaining stable moisture levels pre-air conditioning. 

From that mostly, I also feel what is overlooked a lot is any fast rising and falling temperatures above 40% can leave steel at cooler temperatures than the air around it, drawing condensation to it. And 40% isnt exactly comfortable for some folk.

  The amount of moisture drawn to the steel is reletive to the total temperature difference and can't usually even be seen easily; But a heavy beam of sunlight quickly heating the air dirrectly contacting your metal. Because steel will take longer to warm that air, that metal likely sweats like a tall glass of iced tea and then evaporates as the difference stabilizes.

   I found this out the hardway; saw the rust forming, and then noticed the light and heated air moving over my arm one day and knew what had happened...slowly. The light never reached the metal, just a small area of rising heat gusts from sunlight heated air movements happening daily.

I now find temp. stability and any change. being very gradual, of great concern. With this in mind if you are really serious about things, but dont like desert humidity levels, ask your hvac people about if you could be running your system as a contant air circulation system (fan always on, but usually wired at a lower rpm rate), any area will be more stable from a constant circulation of conditioned air, and more sample air across the sensors triggering the hvac mode mean more accurate heat/cool reactions and less cycling  ("sensors"...thermo&humidistats)

 Some spaces with big temp variances from room to room can actually be run more cost effiently this way. You have to have a sytem that allows you to experiment, then watch the bills and hope. 

Here in New England the worst thing I have seen is folks who store trains in uninsulated attics. Very hot and humid during the summer and cold and damp in the winter. I have even seen attics with icicles hanging from the rafters. Not too uncommon for someone to pull what was grampas pride and joy pre-war toy out of storage only to find it a rusted, locked up hulk which smells like the way grandpa looks.

If you are into buying old tin plate, basement finds seem to be better quality than attic finds.

Started running my dehumidifier about a month ago - my basement is quite large - with the dehumidifier running the humidity is registering between 50 and 55.  I have the hose running into the sump pump - may have to bring it down a bit more.

Paul

This thread was started before I joined this Forum, so I found it by doing a search.

What prompted me to make the search is the dehumidifier in my basement has been producing many buckets of water during the past few weeks, much more than when I bought the dehumidifier several months ago.

I live in Northern Westchester County, NY, we have had plenty of rain this Spring, and the humidity has been high.

I know that generally, keeping things relatively dry is a good idea for trains on a layout, trains in storage, the track, accessories and the layout itself. Doing so minimizes rust and mold, and otherwise helps keep trains and model railroads in good working order.

My question is this: are there any disadvantages to running a dehumidifier to keep trains and model railroads dry, other than spending a little more money on electricity? Arnold

Your trains are best served with a consistent humidity that is around 40%.  Many things absorb moisture out of the air, like wood, and changing levels of humidity will cause them to expand and contract. This can causing cracking and glue joint failures. It would be best to have an accurate humidity meter so you can keep an eye on what is happing. Humidity is difficult to measure accurately, so it would be good to watch how things are going in case your dehumidifier  is not accurately monitoring the situation.   

Relative humidity is temperature dependent so proper humidity control also depends on a fairly constant temperature. 

Engines and Passenger sets are in oak cabinets under the RR. All boxes  for all.pieces and freight cars are stored 8 per plastic unit in their own barn. I rotate freight cars once a month on and off the RR. Gives new meaning to the phrase Car Barn! And I have had zero issues. 

dk122trains posted:

Engines and Passenger sets are in oak cabinets under the RR. All boxes  for all.pieces and freight cars are stored 8 per plastic unit in their own barn. I rotate freight cars once a month on and off the RR. Gives new meaning to the phrase Car Barn! And I have had zero issues. 

Dk122trains, I just checked out the videos of your Bellevue & Schenectady Railroad. Very, very nice.

My wife, who is originally from Troy, NY has family in the Albany, NY area, so we typically make a few trips during the year there, especially during the holidays.

Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

dk122trains posted:

Engines and Passenger sets are in oak cabinets under the RR. All boxes  for all.pieces and freight cars are stored 8 per plastic unit in their own barn. I rotate freight cars once a month on and off the RR. Gives new meaning to the phrase Car Barn! And I have had zero issues. 

Dk122trains, I just checked out the videos of your Bellevue & Schenectady Railroad. Very, very nice.

My wife, who is originally from Troy, NY has family in the Albany, NY area, so we typically make a few trips during the year there, especially during the holidays.

Arnold

Forum members are always welcome !!!

I run two dehumidifiers in my 2600 sq foot basement which my layout takes up about 2200 feet of it . I keep humidity about 40 percent. Here in Western Ky it is a must.

These are not the trains of the 50’s stored in attics, garages or whatever. Try keeping them inside your living quarters and by all means use a dehumidifier when in the basement. 

My basement isn't finished per say (no drywall, just plain brick walls) but it does have HVAC. Runs about 60°-65° all year. I've never run a dehumidifier and have had no rust/rot issues on any equipment or track. So if the area your trains are in has a HVAC system you're pretty much good to go.

There was also this topic started about the same time as mine that I had come across last month. Always great to gave multiple sources.

https://ogrforum.com/...ment-humidity?page=1