UP STEAM DEAD?

Curiously, Trains Magazine lists the 844 as one of the locos to return to steam in 2016. Either them know something most everyone else doesn't or they drank to much koolaide. 

I would say it's on life support.

Rusty

Things won't turn around until Ed Dickens is finally shown the door. He has no idea what he is doing.

Maybe it's an "as the economy goes, so goes the steam program" type deal.

The 844 needed MAJOR boiler work after the last trip to  Texas, and places along the Sunset Route.

If you cannot run it right, don't run it at all.

Even more so  with 4018.

Penn-Pacific posted:

Maybe it's an "as the economy goes, so goes the steam program" type deal.

Nope.  It all boils down to incompetent management, both at the Cheyenne steam shop level, and in Omaha.

Here we go again...

Wow like chumming the Water. 

AmbBob posted:

Curiously, Trains Magazine lists the 844 as one of the locos to return to steam in 2016. Either them know something most everyone else doesn't or they drank to much koolaide. 

Koolaide.

steam fan posted:

Here we go again...

 

In all fairness, these, "Here we go again" posts often come from people who didn't see the same thing the first 1000 times as they either don't live on the form or just came aboard.

I don't dogpile on anyone who brings up a recurring topic unless they're doing it over and over to rile people up.

Well it sounds like my assumption was right on the steam crew. ��

Definitely very sad situation in Cheyenne right now. I'm still waiting for some contractor like WRRC to grab 833 or 3977 for the time being and restore it quicker than ED and his loonies can do with 844 or 4014 or 3985. Just hope nothing any worse can happen in that shop now.

Hot Water posted:

Penn-Pacific posted:

Maybe it's an "as the economy goes, so goes the steam program" type deal.

Nope.  It all boils down to incompetent management, both at the Cheyenne steam shop level, and in Omaha.

Exactly. Well put.

86TA355SR posted:

Hot Water posted:

Penn-Pacific posted:

Maybe it's an "as the economy goes, so goes the steam program" type deal.

Nope.  It all boils down to incompetent management, both at the Cheyenne steam shop level, and in Omaha.

Exactly. Well put.

Now, in Omaha, is the problem within with department responsible for the Steam Program, or within all of upper management?

One of the more recent threads on this subject had some video of a UP steam shop tour. The type of work that was being shown gave the depressing impression that very little was actually going on.

Its In the division of the corporate structure.   Public relations and advertisement and promotion are not a cohesive unit working in concert with the folks  currently in charge of the steamshop.  Current downturn combined with recent outlays for equipment? remodel? security?    Very soon put up or shut up  will be the expectation.  Often these separate entities , attitudes, and charisma   juxtapose  the interests of the public...us  the steam fan,  and the perception of the corporation as a whole  Where's The Steam!!! should be the cry!!!!  But mostly Good public relations and perceptions are  monetarily bottom line  enhancers.  It sometimes takes time for things to trickle up.... Shall we say.

aterry11 posted:

Its In the division of the corporate structure.   Public relations and advertisement and promotion are not a cohesive unit working in concert with the folks  currently in charge of the steamshop.  Current downturn combined with recent outlays for equipment? remodel? security?    Very soon put up or shut up  will be the expectation.  Often these separate entities , attitudes, and charisma   juxtapose  the interests of the public...us  the steam fan,  and the perception of the corporation as a whole  Where's The Steam!!! should be the cry!!!!  But mostly Good public relations and perceptions are  monetarily bottom line  enhancers.  It sometimes takes time for things to trickle up.... Shall we say.

I doubt the shippers that use the UP or the stockholders are worried about the steam program.

Rusty

aterry11 posted:

Its In the division of the corporate structure.   Public relations and advertisement and promotion are not a cohesive unit working in concert with the folks  currently in charge of the steamshop.  Current downturn combined with recent outlays for equipment? remodel? security?    Very soon put up or shut up  will be the expectation.  Often these separate entities , attitudes, and charisma   juxtapose  the interests of the public...us  the steam fan,  and the perception of the corporation as a whole  Where's The Steam!!! should be the cry!!!!  But mostly Good public relations and perceptions are  monetarily bottom line  enhancers.  It sometimes takes time for things to trickle up.... Shall we say.

Sorry but, in my opinion you are totally out of touch with reality!

Sorry to hear about the UP steam situation but just got email listing the 611 schedule for 2016 - will definitely take one of the half day trips. The 611 must have some influential friends.

ns1001 posted:

Sorry to hear about the UP steam situation but just got email listing the 611 schedule for 2016 - will definitely take one of the half day trips. The 611 must have some influential friends.

The 611 has a talented organization.

Rusty

Ed Dickens will be speaking at the Rocky Mountain Train Show on March 5th.

Parking is FREE this year.

The Rocky Mountain Train Show March 5th -6th 2016 is run by the Rocky Mountain Division TCA as a not for profit show open to the public. Photography, phones, video are welcome.

Tranz4mr posted:

Ed Dickens will be speaking at the Rocky Mountain Train Show on March 5th.

 

Speaking about WHAT?

Hot Water posted:

Tranz4mr posted:

Ed Dickens will be speaking at the Rocky Mountain Train Show on March 5th.

 

Speaking about WHAT?

You and your posse can go heckle him, Hot Water! 

 Anyway .... that looks like a GREAT train show, Kent!!

844 is currently having firebox sections replaced. New material is slightly thicker than original due to better material availability and to allow for a small amount of wastage while in service. 

p51 posted:

steam fan posted:

Here we go again...

 

In all fairness, these, "Here we go again" posts often come from people who didn't see the same thing the first 1000 times as they either don't live on the form or just came aboard.

I don't dogpile on anyone who brings up a recurring topic unless they're doing it over and over to rile people up.

In all fairness, every time a thread comes up and someone mentions UP steam, hot water jumps on the "kill Ed" bandwagon and then it usually turns into a bashing match and the thread gets deleted. Gets to be old. Obviously the old man has an axe to grind. We don't own the UP so we have no say in what they do or don't do. Someone doesn't get it. :sad:

WHAT is correct. Sure he'll have more BS to promote. 

Sad that some will believe it.

For all those who think HW is being harsh-how many UP steamers are operating?  NONE. Period. 'Nuf said.

How many were operating when Dickens took over? We all know the answer...

Will there be any soon? Not unless there is a major change.

Drama...that's all that is being accomplished in Cheyenne.

steam fan

In all fairness, every time a thread comes up and someone mentions UP steam, it usually turns into a bashing match and the thread gets deleted.

Perhaps. And rarely does the dialog vary. But it's at least entertaining. Popcorn anyone?

Mill City posted:

steam fan

In all fairness, every time a thread comes up and someone mentions UP steam, it usually turns into a bashing match and the thread gets deleted.

Perhaps. And rarely does the dialog vary. But it's at least entertaining. Popcorn anyone?

"Entertaining"? 

You mean like the POTUS-SOTUS about an hour ago?   ....only a smidgen better?  Or not?

611.....1225....765...and a few others.......we're happy over here!

2016.  Gonna be a great year!

KD

steam fan posted:

p51 posted:

steam fan posted:

Here we go again...

 

In all fairness, these, "Here we go again" posts often come from people who didn't see the same thing the first 1000 times as they either don't live on the form or just came aboard.

I don't dogpile on anyone who brings up a recurring topic unless they're doing it over and over to rile people up.

In all fairness, every time a thread comes up and someone mentions UP steam, hot water jumps on the "kill Ed" bandwagon and then it usually turns into a bashing match and the thread gets deleted. Gets to be old. Obviously the old man has an axe to grind. We don't own the UP so we have no say in what they do or don't do. Someone doesn't get it. :sad:

Well, In All Fairness, How much FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE do You have in Maintaining and Operating Large Mainline Steam? Hotwater has a LOT, and Rich tends to support most, if not all of what Jack says, and Rich is another with Very Extensive Steam experience. Myself, I don't have much Steam experience, so I will tend to believe what Jack and Rich have to say, rather than some inexperienced Ed Dickens Koolaide drinkers opinions.

Doug

dkdkrd posted:

Mill City posted:

But it's at least entertaining.

"Entertaining"? 

You mean like the POTUS-SOTUS about an hour ago?  

2016.  Gonna be a great year!

KD

Well...KD...root-canal would be more entertaining than that.

some interesting discussion here, find dec 8 2015

https://www.facebook.com/Union...nfo-101121036621755/

I post this for info only, I have no dog in this fight.

86TA355SR posted:

WHAT is correct?  Sure he'll have more BS to promote. 

Over 100 people attended Ed Dicken's presentation at the March 2015 Rocky Mountain Train Show and again in 2014. He answered questions directly from the crowd afterwards including a video interview for over an hour in public. Maybe he will answer your questions. Your are all invited to attend and decide for yourself where the UP Steam gauge is positioned. Was ED full of superheated steam or just hotwater?

Enjoy the show.

PS.  OGR and Rich Melvin have been invited to attend too but the rumor is that they will be elsewhere. Oh well. Maybe next time

Tranz4mr posted

OGR and Rich Melvin have been invited to attend too but the rumor is that they will be elsewhere. Oh well. Maybe next time

FOR THE RECORD...

I have NOT been invited to attend this event. And if I was invited, I would politely decline.

My bull**** meter doesn't go high enough to handle it.   

OGR Webmaster posted:

Tranz4mr posted

OGR and Rich Melvin have been invited to attend too but the rumor is that they will be elsewhere. Oh well. Maybe next time

FOR THE RECORD...

I have NOT been invited to attend this event. And if I was invited, I would politely decline.

My bull**** meter doesn't go high enough to handle it.   

The smell would require a haz-mat team to clear!

Maybe UP needs to hire some people from the 765, or 611 programs.  I think they could get one steamer going with higher quality at lower costs!

Well just as the TOS says...

There are 3 sides of the story.  Yours, theirs, and the truth.  While I'm sure what Rich and HW have passed along has validity after all they are in fact "in the business" the fact of this matter is the other side, Ed and the UP steam program, has no real voice in this discussion.  While I too have no dog in this fight other than wanting to see the steam program prosper I suspect if Ed said the sky is blue, HW would say its teal and vice versa. Rich would probably tell us the sky "Ain't gonna happen".   You get the point.

Just remember the TOS...

When you post about a bad experience keep in mind that there are usually three sides to every quarrel: your side, the other side, and the truth, which is somewhere in the middle. When you post about such a difference of opinion, the other side usually doesn't have the opportunity to defend himself on the Forum so such things can become very one-sided and unfair very quickly. In the interest of fairness, if you actually name the other party in such a post, creating the potential, given the vast reach of the Internet, for what might be a very unfair character assassination, we are going to delete the thread. In a similar light, posts whose purpose we judge to be primarily to bash another person, vendor, manufacturer, etc., will be deleted.

"The fact of this matter is the other side, Ed and the UP steam program, has no real voice in this discussion." 

But they DO have voice, and they have used it to denigrate the efforts who ran the program before the current regime,  spread falsehoods about the condition of the equipment, and to make promises they CANNOT POSSIBLY fulfill.  Whatever critics Ed had when he took over the program could have been silenced pretty quickly by keeping the equipment on the road in good repair and accident free.  Instead, he failed miserably on both accounts, blamed his problems on others, took on a project WAY beyond the scope of his own or his current crews ability, and keeps making unrealistic projections about when the equipment will be back on the road.  That's all without delving into the more than 100% crew turnover,  the lawsuits, and the fact NOBODY in the rest of the steam community wants ANYTHING to do with Ed.  No matter how much of Ed's Koolaide you have consumed, it's pretty hard to explain away those last three items.

That fact that there's been NO steam operations on the UP in YEARS should be proof enough there's something rotten in Denmark or in this case Cheyenne.  Don't understand why people don't see this very glowing FACT.

Dieselbob posted:

"The fact of this matter is the other side, Ed and the UP steam program, has no real voice in this discussion." 

But they DO have voice,

No one from the UP steam program that has identified themselves as such is on this board to refute or defend it in this discussion.  Again I don't have a dog in the fight but this is a fact.  I certainly am not defending them.  From all indications there is a problem but if again no one here is on the UP steam program (that we know of) so to say thy have a voice is misleading. That's all I'm saying and even if they did it would come down to he said / he said. 

I don't doubt that HW and Rich have more information concerning this than many of the folks defending the steam program.  After all they are by trade in the business.  I hold their opinions in high regard.  My point is we don't get the other side directly in the discussion on this board.  I'm sure that the legal department for UP would keep it that way.  That's all I'm saying.  And it seems when this discussion comes up every few months the TOS point that I posted is bent.  I'm NOT defending them because I don't know what is going on.

This is the last I will comment (cheers go up across the land) on this thread.  Bottom line is I think we can all agree that we'd like to see the program prosper again.  If that means the current leadership is removed, great.  Let's just get it going again.

Glad the Forum lets another ED bashing Forum run it's course.  It's funny how when Rich agrees with the topic it stays up, but when it's something he doesn't like it gets taken down right away.  Way to keep it real.