Update: Lionel Fast Track reduction of noise

Hi Gunrunnerjohn, Can not. This is a layout for my grandchildren to play with. I want it as kid friendly as possible. I have built other layouts with Atlas O and do agree if for adults to have fun with and more realism. D

Thank you. I know of the foam but not the carpet. Want to hear other suggestions. D

Stay tune for my idea. D

Window sill foam . It comes in rolls and fits underneath. Running trains less than 150 scale mph helps also.

Ray Marion 

If your so trying to please the kids don't worry about the noise

I think the noise abatement is likely for adult sanity; with kids, it may well be the noisier the better!

I would replace the grandkids rolling stock axles to ones with Delrin (plastic) wheels. Quiet and less sparks flying when they derail their train. Check out this recent post.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/mth-rolling-test?

Has anyone tried to fill the inside of the hollow rails ? If possible would this not cut down the noise.

There's plastic studs in the rail cavities already.  

Go ahead and post your idea.

This topic has been posted to death every few months. You can find all the info without digging too deep into the archives using an advanced search.

So if you have something new to say, post it.

What he said. 

You could insert pipe cleaners into the hollow rails; I doubt this would make much difference.

I agree that the low pile carpet / carpet pad approach is promising.  But when you attach the track to a board, the screw conducts vibration, AND the edges of the track sections are still going to contact the board surface.  So unless the track is "floating" on the carpet pad, you will still have a lot of sound being conducted to the platform surface.  Drilling holes and screwing through carpet or padding isn't easy either.  Off-topic, but Homasote is hard to find in my part of the world.

I might be building an O36 layout in the near future, and Ross doesn't make switches in this size.  Atlas switches can be hard to find.  I hope a good workable solution is found, because I tried Fasttrack when it was new.  In a multi-train recreational environment with TV or conversations going on in the background, it's definitely too noisy for my tastes!

DennisTiro posted:

Stay tune for my idea. D

The buildup and hype isn’t necessary. Just state your idea without making it seem so momentous. 

Ted S posted:

You could insert pipe cleaners into the hollow rails; I doubt this would make much difference.

Again....

"There's plastic studs in the rail cavities already".  

That said-  You cant fill the rails! 

...switch to N scale; or wear ear protective headphones... 

Mark in Oregon

I took some of my 30" haystack fastrack [dang autocorrect] straights and wedged in some 40" atlas ones. Big improvement, much quieter. So I sold all the fastrack off. I used the proceeds to buy a bit more of that, some Ross and some Gargraves (much of it used). I can't say mixing all these is a wonderful idea but they are all vastly quieter than fastrack. I do miss the confident "snick" of the fastrack switches a bit though.

Ross switches with DZ-1000 motors have a "snick", a little more reserved than FasTrack.

I used fastrack some years ago and found it has no more noise then any other track system. The sound systems drown out any noise it may have anyway. 

Besides kids love noise and if your so concerned about the noise of fastrack use another track system and lay it out on a rug. 

Your making a problem where there is none.

Dave

Roger,

I've stuffed my Gargraves  track with galvanized steel wire. It seems  quieter. The track is laid on Midwest cork (screwed down until I ballast it). The table top is 5/8" plywood.

Hal

Correction: Mainline is laid on vinyl roadbed.

A simple method is to use carpet underpad. You cut it to the space you have, then paint it with an earth coloured paint (I used a paint roller), mixed 50:50 with water (this slows down the paint drying, so the ground foam has a chance to set). Then while still wet, sprinkle ground foam in the colour you want (grass, dirt, sand, etc) and let dry for a day. then brush off the ground foam that did not stick ( you can use this again). 

You can then hide the wires under the under pad, poking them through under the track. This way there are no visible wires. I use Velcro strips to hole the foam to my train table. If you have a temporary setup, then use the weight of rocks or buildings to hold the foam flat. There should be very little noise, as nothing is transferring the vibration of the track through to the table. The carpet underpad is sitting on the table, and the track is sitting on the foam, however the track is not connected to the table, so sound is not transferred.

This method is simple, cheep and quite effective. I have used this method to teach my kids about the hobby, and model building. 

Please note that nothing is held in place. I can change my layout buildings and track any time I want. When I get a new idea (from this forum), I can easily change things around and implement the new idea.

I have been working on this layout for 20 years, making changes every year. 

Note that I still need to add some street pavement. This will happen eventually. I am still undecided on if I should use asphalt shingles or painted board, or granular sand on plastic. 

I had my fastrack on thick carpet with a substantial pad, then had it on table tops with a heavy felt layer on top of some padding. it was noticeably noisy if once the engine got up just a bit past slow.  I thought I could not hear the expensive digital sound well. so when I mixed in the atlas as an experiment after reading posts similar to this -- the change was dramatic enough for me that I sold it all off and converted. It's still not a silent wheel to track sound which apparently is what I want ... the better to hear the fake digitized sounds.  another point of comparison... some ho track and diesel with expensive digital sound. well the track to wheel interface is even more silent with it.. so it's the track....

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I wanted to hear other opinions before mine. I will conduct a test of the following construction.

1. I am making 4' x 4' modular bench work so it can be transported if I move.
2. Base layer is 1/2" plywood
3. Cork wood flooring 2nd layer for sound deadening.
4. 1", 1 1/2" or 2" (TBD) Styrofoam which can accept screws slightly dipped in glue for an adequate hold but can be removed if possible. Screws will not go into plywood or cork. Styrofoam Offers slight sound deadening but also ability to carve for scenery.
5. Place Thermafiber sound blankets cut to fit into Fast Track cavity and extend roughly 1/16" of materiel under roadbed edges to reduce noise in track cavity.

I won't conduct this test for 2 months, stay tuned.

Again thank you everyone for your comments.

FYI N Scale layout I made years ago.

One question, when you say styrofoam do you mean the white stuff they make cheap picnic hampers out of, use in shipping, etc, or do you mean the foam insulation board (the pink or blue stuff) ? Foam insulation board would be the way to go, it offers significant sound deadening and is superior to styrofoam in all regards. 

DennisTiro posted:

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I wanted to hear other opinions before mine. I will conduct a test of the following construction.

1. I am making 4' x 4' modular bench work so it can be transported if I move.
2. Base layer is 1/2" plywood
3. Cork wood flooring 2nd layer for sound deadening.
4. 1", 1 1/2" or 2" (TBD) Styrofoam which can accept screws slightly dipped in glue for an adequate hold but can be removed if possible. Screws will not go into plywood or cork. Styrofoam Offers slight sound deadening but also ability to carve for scenery.
5. Place Thermafiber sound blankets cut to fit into Fast Track cavity and extend roughly 1/16" of materiel under roadbed edges to reduce noise in track cavity.

I won't conduct this test for 2 months, stay tuned.

Again thank you everyone for your comments.

FYI N Scale layout I made years ago.

 

So much effort (cost?) to beat the sound out of Fastrack. I read this and think another type of track would be the solution. That said, I have 4 tubs of Fastrack and 2 dozen switches, so there is no going back.

My own experience from a layout we just took down was homosote on top of plywood was a little quieter than a few sections just sitting on plywood with ground cover. We had an upper track built on stacked up foam board and the most noise on our layout by far came from the upper track. I found the foam board amplified the noise.

Ironically, when the train would go over one of the truss bridges we had connecting sections of the foam board tier, the noise dissipated which supports the notion that the hollow backside echoing off whatever it is sitting on is the culprit. I like the idea Ray had with the window sill foam for a backing; might try that. Or just live with the sounds.

Foamboard (extruded polystyrene) is not an effective sound insulator for FasTrack if used without other sound-deadening measures. If the track is laid directly on the board and screws are inserted into it, the sound will reverberate through the board almost as much as with plywood. 

Soft materials (Homasote, carpet padding, etc.) are the key. Even then, screws through those materials and into plywood will transmit sound into the plywood without other sound-deadening efforts.

Your use of Thermafiber within the plastic roadbed should help, however.

I should add that the use of foamboard as the layout surface isn’t a bad one. It can be carved, cut and shaped to create many landscape effects, making scenery work easier. Just don’t think of that hard surface as a sound insulator.

It sounds like a good project. Definitely report back when it is done to convey how effective it was toward meeting your goal.

Hi, appreciate the email. I am not a fan of Homoste for numerous reasons. I will head your advice. Maybe put cork above Styrofoam and cut around tracks. I will do tests. I like a quieter layout if possible. D

Mooner posted: 

So much effort (cost?) to beat the sound out of Fastrack. I read this and think another type of track would be the solution. That said, I have 4 tubs of Fastrack and 2 dozen switches, so there is no going back.

 

I agree - if the noise makes you crazy, don't buy FasTrack! There are other options. Otherwise, just put it on some kind of carpet material. I have FasTrack sitting on my plywood table and I just don't find it that noisy, but I don't run my trains very fast. Oh, and I wear hearing aids!

I'm more bothered by the sometimes sketchy electrical connections and cheap pins on the earlier versions. I've broken several. I think there's a video of Ryan Kunkle soldering jumpers between sections for better connectivity. Huh?

FasTrack goes together easily and I think the no-wire command switches with built-in anti-derailing are great.

All that said, I'm working with Ross switches now because I needed some curved turnouts to fit 072 radius in a tight space. And I like the looks of the Gargraves Phantom track with wooden ties. I've mounted it on cork on top of pink sill foam - it wasn't THAT quiet!

I think the noise is there whatever track you use. Years past I always used tubular but current layout uses Gargraves. To me there is no difference. I’ve always used cork under the rail. You’ll drive yourself nuts trying to find an unsolvable solution. The heft and size of Ogauge trains simply don’t allow quietness. 

romiller49 posted:

I think the noise is there whatever track you use. Years past I always used tubular but current layout uses Gargraves. To me there is no difference. I’ve always used cork under the rail. You’ll drive yourself nuts trying to find an unsolvable solution. The heft and size of Ogauge trains simply don’t allow quietness. 

...just like the real thing... 

Mark in Oregon

OK, here's what I did …..

Before I laid my Fastrack, I removed all three rails from each section and inserted a piece of boiled angel hair pasta in each rail. It was time consuming, but was well worth it because it actually lowered the sound by a nano-decibel. After re-installing each rail, I then sprayed the underneath hollow cavity with expandable spray foam. After it dried, I took each section over to my band saw and, running each section through on its side, I cut the foam flush with the bottom of the Fastrack.

I then ordered 167 My Pillows (on sale) and cut each one into 3 1/2 " wide strips which I glued to the underside of the Fastrack. I laid the Fastrack sections over my mother-in-law's old parlor carpet and then over pink foam board. Underneath that, I laid  194,500 individual Cheerios flat, on top of 1/2" Homasote and a 3/4" plywood base. The Cheerios make excellent sound insulators because the holes absorb the sound waves, much like the walls of a Bose studio. 

The only problem now is that it is virtually silent in my train room and my wife has to occasionally wake me up to let me know that the trains are actually running.

I wonder how long it'll take the bugs to find the pasta.

Richie,

Great post that brings out how inane the quest for quiet can be. 👍

Please let us know where you bought your nano- decibel meter! 

Jim

No worries, John … I sealed the gaps around the pins with Lionel Electric Cement, so it's virtually impenetrable. I'm more worried about the Cheerios !  

Same place I got my left-handed flute drill to get to those hard-to-reach areas, Jim.   

We went from carpet to Homosote to angel hair pasta and finally cheerios. The long and short is it is Fast Track and Tin Plate. The only suggestion not mentioned was floating the tracks in Campbell Tomato Soup in a super-cooled environment. 

It demonstrates we love our hobby if it is for super realism or just for grandchildren to have fun. 50 years for me and still going. I would be joyed to pass my tools on to my grandchildren as my grandfather did for me.

Thank you again. D

Yes, It is Good Grief! We have so much bad grief in this world and being able to discuss Model railroading is a blessing. Have fun today. D

Wow, great info Richie!!  I'll start collecting these materials while I wait for my order of Lionel Fast Track stretching solvent to arrive.