Use RailSounds 2.5 Chips in RS4 Board

Why not just upgrade to the RS 4.0 railsounds while your at it????

I modified mine to get the newer sounds and it worked out quite nice after adding a ERR AC Commander. 

Don't think it will work John, I tried that in the past, and got uncontrollable chuffing and a lot of other distorted sounds.

That's my fallback plan, I wasn't sure it had the same sounds, never heard the Phantom III run.  What is "new" about the newer sounds?

The purpose of this mod is to convert to DC so I get cruise control.

Thanks Chuck, I was afraid of that.

Sorry it was long enough that I don't remember the specific differences.  I do recall a Star Wars R2D2 like sound. 

Sounds were clearer but most important I could make them work with the newer electronics.  I still have the RS2.5 board in the closet, probably never to be used again for anything.

I wasn't planning to upgrade the sounds, but couldn't figure out how to trigger the RS25 board with a R2LC.

Also changed the wheel set to one with traction tires rather than the magnatraction.  Works much better on Atlas track now.

Jim

The RS 2.5 board has the serial data connection, but I've heard tell that it doesn't recognize the data stream from the R2LC.  That could be incorrect, I don't really know.

When I get the DC motor conversion done, I was planning on having Frank Timko also groove the wheels for traction tires.  No reason not to have both magnatraction and traction tires.   Our club layout is Atlas track, and I have Fastrack, so both would be beneficial.  I have seen locomotives with both traction tires and magnatraction.

I've called for backup, the man, the myth... the legend, Lou Niederlander.

I know that Lou and I have talked at length before about the use of RS4 PIC/ROM chips in the RS2.5 without issues, but he might be able to shed light about the reverse.

Lou, we need ya!

Thanks,

Mario

It'll be interesting to see what he has to say.

I put some RS4 chips in the 2.5 board and it worked, that's why I thought it might work the other way.

I'm suprise Marty didnt chime in on this thread..

I'm going to be really bummed out if the ERR cruise commander is not able to control the sounds of older Railsounds chips....

I have the AEC gp9 from 2001 and I was hoping I could Frank Timko to conver to a can motor and then I'd add cruise but there is no way I will do it if I lose the sounds on that engine....bummer cause I'm not a fan of the pullmor motor.  It's loud and smells great but I just prefer more constant slow speeds when I am "operating" my layout.

 If you put the 2.5 chips in the RS4 audio board they will work until you blow the radio board, which is about sixty seconds. I have learned this from past experience.

Bill

That's not the answer I was looking for Bill, but thanks for the input.   I guess I'll stick with plan-B and order the Phantom III RS4 board for my upgrade.  Do you know if I could drive the RS 2.5 module with the serial data from the R2LC-C08 board?

What do you mean by "blow the radio board".  Are you referring to the RL2C board?  I just swapped out both the sound and controller chips on a 2.5 board and put them in a 4.0 board.  I could only test in conventional mode because the UCUB in the loco doesn't play nice with the ERR RS Commander.  I ran the board for several minutes and all of the conventional functions worked fine.

I think the issue with the UCUB was it's designed for use with a dedicated RS 4 VOC board and the power connectors (red/black/purple wire) usually used with Lionel and ERR command boards aren't wired to anything.  Power comes off the standoffs on the board edge (original UCUB was designed for 2.5).  Only the purple data wire is functional.

If you drop back into archive.org and select Lionel's old website (like 2001) and go to tech/faq there is a three paragraph description between rs 2.5, 3.0, and 4.0.  2.5 and 3 are mainly issues of "packaging".  Rs 4.0 has a more refined audio output amp and has less THD.  

I  believe the sound chips are the same BUT you should swap them as a set.  I will retest in command mode when I get all of the parts for the new harness wired up.  It may be that there is some issue with swapping and the radio board.  I guess I will find out soon enough.

The only connection to the radio board, AKA R2LC, would be the serial data line, no?  I can see it not liking what it sees, but blowing the R2LC seems odd.

I always keep the RS chips as a set, I know from experience that when you mix them they don't always work.

I don't know, I'm working on the real install on a PW steamer with an ERR AC Commander and an ERR RS Commander for the tender.  Since I had the MTH unit apart to replace the failing VCO board I just jumpered around it to test the chips in the RS 4 pakage in conventional mode since the UCUB's wiring for the RS 4.0 board set is "unusual".  If it blows, I'll have to go with a plan b, or c, or whatever letter I'm up to.

The serial line is one way.  From the "motherboard" to the sound board?  

UCUB'?

What's that?

typo, I'm working on an iPad with the "virtual" keyboard.  It's supposed to be UCUB's

Chuck

    After the R2LC went south, I figured that it and the sound board would not work together. Maybe it was the radio's time, nothing worked after that.

Bill

I'll do the real install in phases and see how it goes.  Conventional only, r2lc that won't run in command mode but does allow commander to work as an e unit and then full blown command.  If you see an order for a new rl2c come through you'll know i have to go with a new plan.  Thanks for the input.

Here's hoping your experiment works out.  Since I already have the RS sound board, if I can transplant the chips and keep the existing sound, that would be great.  It would also save my $45 plus shipping.   I figure the Cruise Commander, RS Commander, and the DC motor conversion are enough expense for this project.

wondering if there cheaper in price then what mth charges..just for 1 chip is 30.00 plus 8.00 for shipping in which is un called for.because I seen the shipping price for under 2.00..marked on the package.

Well, there's all that "handling" in there as well.  Lionel charges $9 or $10 minimum shipping, so don't complain.

whats the handle? nothing much..plus id thought lionel was cheaper then mth on the shipping!..Oh my railsound board set should be comming today.just check my tracking numbers..

As long as you keep the PIC and ROM IC's together as you move them from board to board, you will be okay.  THe PIC is the microcontroller, the ROM is the memory.  THey work together to give you the sounds.

Lou N

Lou, that's confirming I can take the RailSounds 2.5 chips from my Phantom I locomotive and stick them in a RailSounds 4.0 board and have full functionality?  That would be good news.

That's great Mike, thanks for the reply.   I'll proceed with my upgrade plan.

Thanks for jumping in , Michael.  As I recall, the differences were mostly on the RS power board (shielded inductors and other parts).

Lou N

I tried it the other way and it worked some time back, but there was a little doubt that it would work this way, several folks told me no.  Happy it will do the trick, thanks everybody for the input.

Good to know that it would work.

Well, two guys that certainly should know say yes, so I'll give it a go.