Used Train Arrived Damaged in the Mail - Easy Fix or Send it in for Repairs?

If you really like it, it looks like an easy fix. Doesn’t look like anything is broken just came undone.

It was soldered on but you should be able to make a repair with JB Weld. Apply sparingly and let it cure for at least 24 hours. Use the original formula, not the quick version. Do one part at a time.

Pete

If you’re uncomfortable fixing it, but you know someone in your area that is, perhaps strike up a deal with a seller to get some money back for the fix??…..if you like the model, then keep it and get it fixed,….looks like the parts neatly just came apart. Doesn’t look like the damage is life altering,……if you lived anywhere’s near NE NC, I would certainly help you get it back together ,……again, doesn’t look like permanent damage ,……wish I had d a nickel for every pilot that took the hit for the team in shipping,…..😉

Pat

I do like the model, it is also in an uncommon roadname (Norfolk & Western) for Pacifics so I do want to hang on to it. It just looks all wrong without the cow catcher, never had this happen before. If it's as simple as JB Weld then I'll have to give it a try.

Depending on shipping and insurance, if USPS you can claim $50 at least to compensate your time.

Don't know if I have ever seen a Weaver N&W Pacific ... rare indeed!

When buying a 10, 15, 20+ year old engine, having small parts come unadhered is to be expected.  When having it shipped through the mail, even more so.  If everything else works well, consider yourself fortunate and fix this rare find cheerfully!

David

The "blame game" in the shipping industry is a circular phenomenon:

   * the seller affirms it was "fine" when he offered it to the shipping service. THEY handled it too rough.
   * the shipper blames the seller for packing it poorly, so the item didn't withstand a "hail Mary pass" at the loading dock.

And on and on it goes.

Other OGR Forum-ites have offered helpful suggestions to you for a repair; it seems do-able, so go for it.

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394
mottlermike10@gmail.com

My suggestion is to start a return on ebay.  Then the seller can deal with getting the money back from the shipper.

I don't know if this is a high dollar item, but in my opinion something  that has been broken and fixed will never

have the same value as the same item unbroken.  The seller can blame the shipper all he wants, but ultimately he

is the one who chose to ship the item with that shipper so it is his responsibility.

I have made many fixes like this in the past with a small drop of 5 minute epoxy.  I have repaired items as small as a coupler cut lever, so these items look like an easy fix.  If you like the engine, save the hassle of returns etc. and make the necessary repairs.

Ron

Fix it yourself and be done with it.  What are the chances of something else getting knocked loose every time you send it thru the mail???  I bet super glue will hold it in place just fine.

Forget the seller and/or shipper.  Life's too short for this sort of situation to impede your happiness.

I agree with Pete, Pat, David, et al...carefully fix it.  JB Weld.  Take your time.  Try fit...be sure old solder remnants don't inhibit a properly aligned fit.  Plan your steps...especially bracing the engine and pilot to keep them in position while the JB sets...completely.  Re JB...Pete & Ron correct...use only a drop...the actual joint is small...this pilot should experience no applied stresses during operation...or display.

Nice find!  You are, indeed, fortunate.  Take pride and smile through it all!

If you have never worked with the JB Weld two part original mix before, I would also suggest that you mix a small batch up and "practice" with it first.  It can be very drippy when first mixed, and if you get it dripped somewhere that you don't want, it can be difficult to get it totally cleaned off before the other places you tried to cement start curing.  (It has the consistency of dark honey.)

So, just practice with it a bit to get the feel of it, and also figure out the very best small tool that works for you to actually deliver one or two drops of the mix to proper fastening points.  For me, a flat toothpick never worked out too well, and so you might want to try that, and also the pointed end of a wooden Shishkebob stick.

You definitely don't want any surprises when you start cementing the cowcatcher on.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

I have used JB-Weld for a bunch of similar repairs, just did one yesterday on a tinplate 262.  This is an easy fix.

@Mannyrock posted:

If you have never worked with the JB Weld two part original mix before, I would also suggest that you mix a small batch up and "practice" with it first.  It can be very drippy when first mixed, and if you get it dripped somewhere that you don't want, it can be difficult to get it totally cleaned off before the other places you tried to cement start curing.  (It has the consistency of dark honey.)

So, just practice with it a bit to get the feel of it, and also figure out the very best small tool that works for you to actually deliver one or two drops of the mix to proper fastening points.  For me, a flat toothpick never worked out too well, and so you might want to try that, and also the pointed end of a wooden Shishkebob stick.

You definitely don't want any surprises when you start cementing the cowcatcher on.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

To prevent the drips, mix a batch you’re going to use, and let it begin to congeal before you use it…..it has a 24 hour cure window, and you can work with it up to 30 minutes after mixing. So mix up a batch, let it sit, and go eat a peanut butter & jelly sandwich, then work with it. It’s density will have changed, and you’ll have a easier product to work with,…

Pat

@Mike H Mottler posted:

The "blame game" in the shipping industry is a circular phenomenon:

   * the seller affirms it was "fine" when he offered it to the shipping service. THEY handled it too rough.
   * the shipper blames the seller for packing it poorly, so the item didn't withstand a "hail Mary pass" at the loading dock.

And on and on it goes.

Other OGR Forum-ites have offered helpful suggestions to you for a repair; it seems do-able, so go for it.

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394
mottlermike10@gmail.com

Unless the outer shipping box had visible damage, my guess is that the carrier will blame the seller who packed it.  I agree with most of the previous posts - carefully glue it back into place and move on.  Don't worry about "collector value" - for modern items, that flew out the window years ago. 

For anything but repairs that require "maximum strength", consider JB-Kwik Weld, it's the fast curing blend.  It also isn't nearly as runny as the JB-Weld when mixed.  The downside is you only have a few minutes to work with it, but I normally just mix in small batches and use it.  It's plenty strong, just not as strong as the slower curing stuff.  It's also nice when you want something fixed today and don't want to wait for the slow stuff to cure.

I keep both types on hand.

Another tip, though may not be needed here, is fit the part without glue. See if it stays in place. In this case I think the holes and pegs will hold it steady but if not have something ready to secure it once its glued like painters tape. I don’t see a lot of glue running here. Use a round tooth pick or piece of piano wire to apply the epoxy where you see solder now. Won’t need much.

Pete

I would solder it if I had the problem however since your asking I assume your not handy with a solder iron. So Gun Runners suggestion of using JB weld is good. However Take something like an old #11 Xacto knife blade ( the long pointed one)  and scratch the mating surfaces till there is no smooth surface left on both surfaces to give  some tooth for the JB weld to grip. That is a rather small mating surface and if you do not scar it up the glue will eventually come loose. Even JB Weld.     This is one of the bugaboos of brass locos lotsa good crisp details, that come loose.          j

Few people have the equipment to solder this. A pencil or gun doesn’t have enough energy and a torch or large iron will remove a lot of paint. You would need a resistance soldering tool and still have to remove some paint for conduction but a small enough area that could just be touched up.

Epoxy, if applied correctly, will at least not damage the paint.

Pete

I’ll be brief - another vote for “fix it”. 👍

Curt

Overwhelming conensus is that fixing with JB Weld is realisitic and doable, so I will be going that route. I have tried to use JB Weld before and it was quite messy, so I will take the advice to practice to heart

@David98 posted:

Don't know if I have ever seen a Weaver N&W Pacific ... rare indeed!

If I can move the front-mounted bell to atop the boiler I think I'll have something that will pass for one of N&W's 4-6-2 E2a locomotives

Gunner's advice as to using the JB KwikWeld is good one.  The regular two part mix is incredibly strong, far far stronger than you will need.  I have used it to attach housings for metal gunsights on top of gun barrels, and it never broke off.   It will melt,, however, if exposed to a very high temperature. This is not an issue with your repair.

Mannyrock

You have to get any of the JB-Weld types pretty hot to melt!

J-B Weld can withstand a constant temperature of 500 °F (260 °C), and the maximum temperature threshold is approximately 600 °F (316 °C) for 10 minutes.

J-B Kwik (stylized as J-B KWIK) is a two-part epoxy, intended as an adhesive or filler, that can withstand medium-temperature environments (up to 300 °F or 149 °C). J-B Kwik cures much more quickly, but it is not as strong or as heat-resistant as the original J-B Weld.

Great technical info Gunrunner.

JB Weld is an incredible product, and many folks don't know about it.

Also, the JB "Wood" epoxy, in the stick version, is also a great product, which I use extensively, and some might find it useful in repairing or creating scenery.  It cures in about 8 minutes, to extremely rock hard.

Mannyrock

If your gun barrel or locomotive get's hot enough to melt JB Weld you've got a big problem.

If it gets hot enough to even melt JB-Kwik I think you've exceeded your round count!

I use JB-Kwik much of the time, according to the folks that make it, it's 2/3 the strength of JB-Weld.

From the JB-Weld FAQ

@Norton posted:

Few people have the equipment to solder this. A pencil or gun doesn’t have enough energy and a torch or large iron will remove a lot of paint. You would need a resistance soldering tool and still have to remove some paint for conduction but a small enough area that could just be touched up.

Epoxy, if applied correctly, will at least not damage the paint.

Pete

Since it is under the pilot deck plenty of hidden surface to make your contact.   BTW, if you have a Weller gun either the 140W or the 325W it's easy to make a Resistance solder tool. It even has a convenient trigger built in. One suggestion,  heat the tab on the pilot and let it transfer the heat to the pilot deck.  This will be less damaging to the paint.     Another cute little tool you can build is a Brown's Gas generator.  If you don't do it right this stuff can explode since it contains both Hydrogen and Oxygen. Or you can use two capture vessels and keep the gases separate. You can just use the hydrogen which is a bit cooler. Still over four thousand f. However it is a lot safer.  The Browns gas burns around five thousand degrees and a flame 1/16" X 3/8" can turn brass red hot in seconds. Do your own research here I would not dare describe the rig.  Just Google it and watch the YouTube. If you do build one keep it small and if possible place the collection vessels outside and pipe the gas in to your work bench.           j

You're going to a lot of trouble here.  From the look of things, it appears a solid and invisible repair can be made using JB-Weld without trying to "roll your own" soldering tools and/or take a torch to your locomotive.  Clearly, not everyone is going to have the skill or tools to solder this pilot back on, and the likelihood of creating more work cleaning up the paint is much greater than the simple repair.

For the record JohnActon (not GRJ), I have a resistance soldering tool and have worked on a lot of brass engines. If this was my engine I would still use epoxy if only to save having to repaint it. If it turned out not be strong enough, which I doubt, it still could be soldered.

When I suggest a remedy for someone else I try and base it on what that person may be comfortable with not what I would do necessarily.

Pete

@JohnActon posted:

Since it is under the pilot deck plenty of hidden surface to make your contact.   BTW, if you have a Weller gun either the 140W or the 325W it's easy to make a Resistance solder tool. It even has a convenient trigger built in. One suggestion,  heat the tab on the pilot and let it transfer the heat to the pilot deck.  This will be less damaging to the paint.     Another cute little tool you can build is a Brown's Gas generator.  If you don't do it right this stuff can explode since it contains both Hydrogen and Oxygen. Or you can use two capture vessels and keep the gases separate. You can just use the hydrogen which is a bit cooler. Still over four thousand f. However it is a lot safer.  The Browns gas burns around five thousand degrees and a flame 1/16" X 3/8" can turn brass red hot in seconds. Do your own research here I would not dare describe the rig.  Just Google it and watch the YouTube. If you do build one keep it small and if possible place the collection vessels outside and pipe the gas in to your work bench.           j

He’s just gluing a pilot back on John, no need for bomb making skills,….🤣🤣🤣

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

He’s just gluing a pilot back on John, no need for bomb making skills,….🤣🤣🤣

Pat

Com'on Pat you never had one you wanted to blow up  ?  When I wrote that I figured that the JB Weld had already been settled on.  However if one never hears of other methods one never looks into them and their skill set never expands.  One of the best tools I have for working brass is the Brown's gas torch. If I had never heard some guy claiming to run his car on it I would have never thought of fueling a micro torch with it. But after running out of propane and butane and map gas in the middle of the night I thought , "Sure would be nice if I didn't have to buy these small tanks of gas."                          j

If your locomotive or gun barrel exceeds 600 degrees F, then it is well above the temperature to burn paper and wood, the action of the firearm would totally lock-up from expansion and not operate, and any parts of your loco made from other than aluminum or steel would melt!  (Also, . . . check to make sure that your train table is not on fire!)  Losing the cow catcher or iron sight would be the least of your problems.   :-)

Mannyrock

You put a torch or soldering iron to the model and you're going to have to repaint something.  JB Weld is messy but works.  With the right applicator (toothpick) super glue IMO is the best choice for putting this small piece back on the model.

Cyanoacrylate doesn't fill gaps like JB-Weld, so my choice is the JB-Weld.  You don't need much, and it shouldn't be any more messy than cyanoacrylate.  Also, cyanoacrylate glue has a low shear strength.  Cyanoacrylate is frequently used as a temporary adhesive in cases where the piece needs to be sheared off later. Common examples include mounting a workpiece to a sacrificial glue block on a lathe, and tightening pins and bolts.  I frequently glue something with cyanoacrylate if there's no easy way to clamp it, then follow up with JB-Weld to secure the piece.

John, what kind of gap can there possibly be in that???  Did you look at the photo?

There's 2 posts still on the piece and holes for them to go in.  If the holes are a bit bigger, they make a filler to use with super glue.  Gorilla brand super glue is some of the strongest stuff I've seen.  I'm betting there's no need to clamp, apply glue, stick in hole and done.  The chances of it being sheared off using either JB Weld or super glue are about the same, unless he gobs the JB Weld on there.

Don't over engineer this easy fix

Bob, I'm not "over engineering" anything.  I find JB-Weld (or JB-Kwik) to be superior in many cases to cyanoacrylate, and no harder to use.  I also happen to think it will be a better repair.

Feel free to disagree.

@Mannyrock posted:

If your locomotive or gun barrel exceeds 600 degrees F, then it is well above the temperature to burn paper and wood, the action of the firearm would totally lock-up from expansion and not operate, and any parts of your loco made from other than aluminum or steel would melt!  (Also, . . . check to make sure that your train table is not on fire!)  Losing the cow catcher or iron sight would be the least of your problems.   :-)Mannyrock

D Bob DelbridgeMember

You put a torch or soldering iron to the model and you're going to have to repaint something.  JB Weld is messy but works.  With the right applicator (toothpick) super glue IMO is the best choice for putting this small piece back on the model.

Manny,  where did you get that 600f ?  See attached chart of melting points of common solder alloys.  BTW here is the melting points of common forms of brass and some other metals we often come across,  Red Brass = 1810~1880f   Yellow Brass= 1660~1710f  Bronze= 1675f  Copper =1983f  Steel=2500~2800f  Aluminum=1220f.  If you choose the proper alloy solder you are never going to come close to  600f when soldering on small details. I haven't done a major locomotive construction job since the mid nineties but  I had what you might called calibrated solders.  I took a 1/2" thick steel disk about 6" diameter and put it on my stove I collected about a dozen different alloys of solder and cut 1/2" lengths then arranged them like spokes in a circle.   I set the burner at about 25% max then stood and waited till the solder started to melt. I had made a drawing of which alloy was at which spot and numbered them as they melted.  When I start construction I solder the large parts boiler, cab and tender shell using the solder with the highest melting point 500-600f. From there on I drop down to one of the lower melting point solders in the 300~350f range.  This strategy is certainly not necessary though I always found it comforting to know I had some margin of error before major joints start to melt. In short, nothing comes loose unless I intend for it to do so.

Bob,  I remove and affix parts, to painted brass locos, if not daily certainly several times a month and very seldom do I have to repaint anything.  Though it does seems that the closer to finishing the job the more likely you are to scorch the paint. You will note there are several alloys which melt below 300f. Indium tin is all the way down to 244f.  My father had about a foot in his stash that I inherited I use it only when nothing else will do. solder.com will sell you three feet for about $100.  I remember dad bought ten feet and complained about paying $20           j

The Weaver USRA 4-6-2’s were originally K-Line engines. I thought they shared some parts with the USRA Mikados. Could the pilot be the same as the Lionel Legacy Light Mikados ?   If so. If your not happy with the repair. Wait till the fall for their half price parts sale.

@Dave_C posted:

The Weaver USRA 4-6-2’s were originally K-Line engines. I thought they shared some parts with the USRA Mikados. Could the pilot be the same as the Lionel Legacy Light Mikados ?   If so. If your not happy with the repair. Wait till the fall for their half price parts sale.

Dave, the OP’s engine is clearly brass. K-line engines don’t have brass pilots that I am aware of and I have both scale and traditional size Pacifics and Mikados.

Pete