Using Bricks only to power the layout

 Well, another tiu could be added giving more power districts and bricks= more power.

Larger bricks with higher output could be used.

Lionel tcp or whatever they're called could be used to tie 2 bricks together.

 Wire the layout using the TIU in passive mode, so that the amps aren't drawn thru the TIU. That way you could have larger supplies if needed.

 My layout uses shorter sections that are on different bricks so that when I run large consists, the engines cross onto different districts and don't trip the power. More bricks, more districts, less is being drawn on each.

  I mean I don't have more than five engines pulling at once on each brick. Engine yard is on a separate channel.

 I think the Z4000 puts out more per channel than a Z1000 brick?

Joe,

 I think the Z4000 puts out more per channel than a Z1000 brick?

A Z1000 allows for approx. 4.5 amps at 22 volts. Each Z4000 handle allows for 10 amps at 22 volts.

 Thanks Barry.

I should pony up and buy two to raise the power!!

Sam you could just use bricks, and put in panel meters somewhere so you can monitor volts and amps. Or if the Z4000 is enough, just use that.

 

The only thing I don't like about using the Z4000 with DCS, is every time you turn the power off to the layout, you have to make sure both handles are down before powering back up. With our ZW-C we can leave all four handles up (on) and turn power on and off without having to move the handles on the ZW.

You can do the same thing using a Z4000 Remote Commander receiver.

 

Is the ZW-C UL certified?

How do you do that with the DCS Remote Commander?  Did you perhaps mean the Z4000 remote receiver?

 

 

This certainly sounds feasible Joe, thanks.  I hadn't thought of using the TIU passively as that is something I've only recently become aware of.  If I understand you right, I just separate the layout into blocks per the star-wiring setup and run a Z1000 (or Lionel 135/180) directly to the block?

 

I guess I was mistaken as I thought I read somewhere that the Z1000 put out 6amps. My two only show 18v on the track. The Z4K would show 22v..

 That would be the nice thing about using all of the exact same bricks. You wouldn't have any power differential between blocks to worry about.

 I have my O scale still on two 180w Lionel bricks for now. I only have one mainline loop connected. I also have a Z1000 brick that I've tried. I swear when I pushed it, it did almost as well as the 180W Lionel. I would have guessed close to 6 amps? I didn't have a meter. Just three G scale engines with the smoke on for a test. The Lionel did better overall.

 

  I have purchased some Bridgewerks packs for my G scale with DC power after being told it would carry the signal better. I have not seen the difference, although I like the fact the packs have plenty of juice with up to 25 amps and onboard meters. I just have smaller inline fuses for protection. I like them up around 27volts for the voltage loss to get about 24v to the track. I also have a pack that "Tank" gave me! It works as well as any and will handle anything I've ever thrown at it.

 There's no substitute for good power.

 

 If you powered the TIU with a wall wart, couldn't you leave the handles up??

John,

Did you perhaps mean the Z4000 remote receiver?

Yup, fixed my post. Thanks!

Sam,

 I read somewhere that the Z1000 put out 6amps

A Z1000 has 100 watts capacity, correct?

 

Assuming its output is 22 volts, divide 100 by 22 volts and you get 4.55 amps.

 

If it puts out 18 volts, however, that would be 5.56 amps.

Hi Guys,

 

The Z-1000 bricks put out 21-22 volts with no load, but typically operate at 18-19 volts with a 3-4 amp load.  They have a 6 amp circuit breaker.

 

The NWTL is powered by 28 Z-1000 bricks.  Each of the seven TIU's has one brick connected to each channel.  Even with the NWTL's heavy grades (2.5%) and long trains it is extremely rare that we trip a breaker.  With all the passenger cars converted to LED lighting there is no appreciable difference in current draw between passenger and freight trains.  I previously planned to parallel two bricks per channel and add 10 amp breakers, but it just hasn't proven necessary.

Thanks Dave. ...28, that's amazing.

 

At what point do you need to add a second TIU?

 

Mike,

I believe the MTH TIU system will recognized (7) different TIU's,

DCS recognizes up to 5 TIUs, not 7.

Just curious Barry, as this is purely academic for me at this point, but 'how much trackage is manageable per TIU' I guess would be a better way of asking my question...

 

Am thinking about layouts like the Northwest Trunk Lines and the NJ High-Railers. How do they work in more than the 5 TIUs?

Sam,

 'how much trackage is manageable per TIU' I guess would be a better way of asking my question...

As a guess, a Rev. L TIU should be able to service approx. 250-350 linear feet of track per channel, depending  upon how track blocks are set up and the number of track blocks.

I mix 4 Lionel 180 bricks, 3 Z 4000's and 1 MRC Pure power Dual (plus two post war ZWs for accessories). You can mix and match bricks and regular transformers. I have one loop with two 180 bricks, for when I ran my Acela and three other trains.  I might move them to my 5th loop (not running the Acela) because my 4  trains (1 with three MTH Heritage UP diesels, 1 with 3 MTH Western Md diesels and one with an MU of two Lionel NS Heritage diesels and one MTH EVO diesels) pushing my amps between 7.5 and 9 amps depending upon speed, whistles and smoke on that loop.

Well? I wonder if in that one instance of time where a loco crosses from one supply to another in a district, if it could be damaged if the power was set at a big differential? Probably never notice it? I have noticed my locos surge if the power being drawn is high and a loco enters a block with power to spare. I've always wondered if that's causing any unseen issues?

I will probably never use even 1 TIU to it's full capacity, but sure would be interested in hearing how these huge layouts are done as well. Especially when one system gets 5 TIU's and still needs 2 more! Or even more yet?

Good question Engineer-Joe

 

Clem

You can actually run more than five TIU's, I believe that the NJ HI-Railers have more than that.  As I understand it, you set all the remaining ones to TIU #5.  There may be other things you have to do, as I haven't had six or more to play with at one time.

 

Back to the original issue:

Lionel 180 Watt bricks will give you the Max 10 amps per TIU channel for a bit more money.

720 watts on a layout is a LOT of power.

1440 with 2 TIU's, ect, it gets to be massive power fast.

 

Just remember to fuse each Positive line withe no more than a 10 amp fast blow fuse to protect the electronics.

Actually, the beauty of the PowerHouse 180 is that it has an excellent electronic circuit breaker, so the extra fuse is really not necessary.  I use them and we use them on our modular club layout.  They trip instantly on a short circuit.  My TIU has never blown a fuse.

 

. Well, the Z4K and ZW-L for that matter are pretty superfluous if you plan to run all command control. You need to pop the handles into position quickly for the watchdog signal and then make sure they stay at 18v (passenger train start up has a way of dropping it down). I begrudgingly bought the Z4K when we entered the hobby 2 years ago, even though I know it's of limited use - mainly because my twins like to race their conventional Polar Express and other conventional stuff.