Using the ERR Cruise Commander with lcd wireless tether

Problem solved! I connected the red wire from the LCD wireless tether to pin 1 (closest to the RRLC pins) on the ERR Cruise Cmdr RailSounds port and the blue wire to the 3rd (ground) pin. My railsounds tender now works perfectly with whistle, bell and chuff and rear coupler!

@VT Railroad posted:

Problem solved! I connected the red wire from the LCD wireless tether to pin 1 (closest to the RRLC pins) on the ERR Cruise Cmdr RailSounds port and the blue wire to the 3rd (ground) pin. My railsounds tender now works perfectly with whistle, bell and chuff and rear coupler!

FANTASTIC!

So you added a TMCC based ERR CC and the Legacy sound system works and accepts commands from the TMCC based CC?  G

Can you draw that out please?

Yes, Apparently the signal from the ERR CC to the lcd on the engine tether works with the receiver on the RailSounds tender. Polarity is important as I first tried the wires reversed with no results.  It uses the same R4LC as the replaced Legacy system.  
In the picture, I’m only using the data and ground pins.

@VT Railroad posted:

Yes, Apparently the signal from the ERR CC to the lcd on the engine tether works with the receiver on the RailSounds tender. Polarity is important as I first tried the wires reversed with no results.  It uses the same R4LC as the replaced Legacy system.  
In the picture, I’m only using the data and ground pins.

Are you using an ERR Railsounds board or the Railsounds Lite board that came with the engine?

Pete

I am using the original RailSounds in the tender. I never even took the shell off! Since the tender worked perfectly with a Lionel Legacy 0-8-0 that I have, I left it as is.

Which R4LC did you use?  They come in 2 variations.  ERR are C08 software which is TMCC 8 bit.  Lionel R4LC are S code which is Legacy 9 bit.  Yes they both are R4LC.  So did you use the engines original R4LC Legacy, or the complete ERR CC R4LC which is TMCC.

The difference being, the ERR motor sections works with a Legacy R4LC or the Legacy RS Lite works with the ERR TMCC R4LC.

What also be good to know that it works on the layout long term.  Some incompatibilities show up as a degradation of control with run time.  G

@GGG posted:

What also be good to know that it works on the layout long term.  Some incompatibilities show up as a degradation of control with run time.  G

I remember your saga with that issue.

I am using the R4LC that comes with the CComander.   I’m not worried about long term degradation because there isn’t a wired connection between the TMCC engine and RailSounds tender. The link is through an optical sensor.  

The ER R4LC is electrically and functionally identical to the TMCC R2LC.

How about posting a video of this thing running on your layout. Sounds & smoke all working, ……inquiring minds would like to know …..

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn
This thread has helped a bunch with my project but now I have some issues of my own that are a little different.  I installed a cruise commander in my basket case Lionel tmcc M1a.  I got the IR tether to work but my chuffs are intermittent.  I have your chuff generator installed correctly.  Video included.

regards, Tony

Well, the chuff generator is generating chuffs that are presumably routed to the R2LC, so it would seem the issue you're having is in the serial data or IR link.  I've done a few of these, and as long as I aligned the sensor and transmitter on the drawbar, it works fine for me.   I don't see how this could be the Chuff-Generator as I see a regular pulsing of the LED just like I should for normal operation.

Did you use the existing IR components on the drawbar for the M1a?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, the chuff generator is generating chuffs that are presumably routed to the R2LC, so it would seem the issue you're having is in the serial data or IR link.  I've done a few of these, and as long as I aligned the sensor and transmitter on the drawbar, it works fine for me.   I don't see how this could be the Chuff-Generator as I see a regular pulsing of the LED just like I should for normal operation.

Did you use the existing IR components on the drawbar for the M1a?

Yes, I’m using the existing IR components.  Whistle blows exactly when I push the bottom on Cab2.  Only chuff which I thought was weird since the light on the cg is lighting up when it’s supposed to.

-Tony

@BeefyT posted:

Yes, I’m using the existing IR components.  Whistle blows exactly when I push the bottom on Cab2.  Only chuff which I thought was weird since the light on the cg is lighting up when it’s supposed to.

-Tony

You’re either not in alignment during chuffs, or the IR is stealing too much serial data to compute the chuffs,…..John is correct, the little LED on the chuff generator is blinking indicating it’s making the chuff signal. The output from John’s generator should go to the chuff in pin on the Cruise Commander, and to the Super Chuffer if so equipped…..if you verify your IR alignment is good, and all other sound functions work as advertised under command, you’ll more than likely need to add a serial buffer to get all features working correctly….

Pat

If you have a Super-Chuffer, is the smoke fan chuffing with each blink of the Chuff-Generator?  If so, and the chuff is wired properly to the Cruise Commander, I can't imagine what could be stopping the chuffs from getting generated internally in the serial data.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you have a Super-Chuffer, is the smoke fan chuffing with each blink of the Chuff-Generator?  If so, and the chuff is wired properly to the Cruise Commander, I can't imagine what could be stopping the chuffs from getting generated internally in the serial data.

I’ve had this happen before John, ….unless he’s got some weird wiring problem, it’s a serial issue ….I’ve had odd man out chuffs happen trying to reuse IR on upgrades,…BUT, ….that was on 2 wire IR tether …….doing a simple bypass of the IR confirmed it, …..what’s odd on his build, is I believe that M1a is late TMCC with the 3 wire IR ….which means he should have good serial transmit….no??.

Pat

I've had serial data issues as well, which is why there is now a Serial Data Buffer available.   However, the Cruise Commander does buffer the serial data on the board and I've driven the IR LED in the drawbar a few times with that with no issues at all.  For the drawbar, I use the serial data coming from the 4-pin Railsounds connector on the Cruise Commander.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've had serial data issues as well, which is why there is now a Serial Data Buffer available.   However, the Cruise Commander does buffer the serial data on the board and I've driven the IR LED in the drawbar a few times with that with no issues at all.  For the drawbar, I use the serial data coming from the 4-pin Railsounds connector on the Cruise Commander.

Some I’ve had no issues at all leaving all the IR stock, some needed some sort of buffer,….even with the full Cruise Commander,……it’s always been the luck of the draw, …..some odd behavior would necessitate a buffer of some sort, let it be a 3 wire transmitter, or your buffer,…..sometimes I’d get lucky inverting the stream, sometimes not….

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've had serial data issues as well, which is why there is now a Serial Data Buffer available.   However, the Cruise Commander does buffer the serial data on the board and I've driven the IR LED in the drawbar a few times with that with no issues at all.  For the drawbar, I use the serial data coming from the 4-pin Railsounds connector on the Cruise Commander.

John, I’m not using the super chuffer (yet) because I thought the Lionel smoke unit would chuff (it does not).  I’m assuming since Henning’s has the super chuffer that they will have the serial buffer?

@BeefyT posted:

John, I’m not using the super chuffer (yet) because I thought the Lionel smoke unit would chuff (it does not).  I’m assuming since Henning’s has the super chuffer that they will have the serial buffer?

Where did you get the 5V for the chuff generator? And, did you run the chuff wire anywhere else besides chuff in?

Pat

@BeefyT posted:

John, I’m not using the super chuffer (yet) because I thought the Lionel smoke unit would chuff (it does not).  I’m assuming since Henning’s has the super chuffer that they will have the serial buffer?

Pat posted a very important question!  The Chuff-Generator power MUST be common to track ground to work properly with the rest of the TMCC electronics.  Obviously, the Super-Chuffer supplies the correct power, but if you add your own, it MUST not be the kind that has a different ground reference than frame ground.  If the ground reference isn't proper, it could cause the vary issue you're seeing.

Henning's does not have the serial buffer, I've never turned that into a regular product, email me directly for one of those.

@harmonyards posted:

Where did you get the 5V for the chuff generator? And, did you run the chuff wire anywhere else besides chuff in?

Pat

I bought it from John a year or so ago when I put in the chuff generator.  Recently I had an issue with the tmcc then with the subsequent cruise M (which I figured had a bad r4lc) and said screw it and put in a full cruise commander.  The only thing plugged in is the chuff wire.

-Tony

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pat posted a very important question!  The Chuff-Generator power MUST be common to track ground to work properly with the rest of the TMCC electronics.  Obviously, the Super-Chuffer supplies the correct power, but if you add your own, it MUST not be the kind that has a different ground reference than frame ground.  If the ground reference isn't proper, it could cause the vary issue you're seeing.

Henning's does not have the serial buffer, I've never turned that into a regular product, email me directly for one of those.

I’ll email you.

@harmonyards posted:

Some I’ve had no issues at all leaving all the IR stock, some needed some sort of buffer,….even with the full Cruise Commander,……it’s always been the luck of the draw, …..some odd behavior would necessitate a buffer of some sort, let it be a 3 wire transmitter, or your buffer,…..sometimes I’d get lucky inverting the stream, sometimes not….

Pat

Pat,

When you've had to invert the stream did you use something like a 74LS14 (since already uses 5v) or have you found something better more effective?

Jim

@Jim Sandman posted:

Pat,

When you've had to invert the stream did you use something like a 74LS14 (since already uses 5v) or have you found something better more effective?

Jim

Very easy with the 2-wire tether, just swap the leads to the IR transmitter.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Very easy with the 2-wire tether, just swap the leads to the IR transmitter.

I did the serial buffer install and didn’t get anything.  I want to double check my installation.  Here’s what I did:

-Tony

Looks reasonable from what I can see.