Using the ERR Cruise Commander with the ERR Steam Railsounds to activate tender coupler and backup light

The ERR sound card is just that, sounds only. It’s basically a version of a RS Lite board,…not same, same, but same but different…….The Cruise Commander has the outputs for rear coupler and rear light. The rear light common is same as frame ground, so you only need to carry one wire back  to tender as long as tender is properly grounded.

Pat

Pat, if I'm understanding the Cruise Commander instructions right, would two independent wires need to be run from a locomotive mounted  CC back to the electro-coupler on the rear of the tender?

With the rear light, that would be a total of 3 wires in the tether or 5 wires if one wanted to parallel track hot and common between the tender and locomotive for better performance over certain types of switches.  Does that all sound right?

@SteveH posted:

Pat, if I'm understanding the Cruise Commander instructions right, would two independent wires need to be run from a locomotive mounted  CC back to the electro-coupler on the rear of the tender?

With the rear light, that would be a total of 3 wires in the tether or 5 wires if one wanted to parallel track hot and common between the tender and locomotive for better performance over certain types of switches.  Does that all sound right?

In theory, you could use frame ground for one side of the rear coil coupler, …however, in my practice, I run both wires to the Cruise Commander to guarantee it fires and grounds back through the CC as advertised, ….I’m always worried that if tender ground is lost momentarily during a coupler energizing, it could possibly damage the coil coupler circuit, …….I’m sure some will say it’s fine, but that’s just the practice I do,……I don’t worry about the rear light, if the tender loses ground, then the light simply doesn’t come on, but no damage will occur…..color me funny I guess….

Pat

@harmonyards Pat thanks for the helpful info.

That is what I thought. The ERR RailSounds board has all those extra pins. I know the digital signal has all the command data but apparently the RailSounds board only interprets the chuff, whistle and bell. It would be neat to have an add on board to activate the coupler and backup light. Thanks for replying.

Have you considered the AD-20A stand-alone board?

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...IVER-PCB-NON-MODULAR

This board receives serial data and operates the backup light and the coupler.  It does need a low current 5VDC supply, but it solves the problem.  I used them to allow me to have a true wireless drawbar on steam upgrades.

There is also an AD-20B that gives you operating ditch lights for diesels.  Same board, different programming.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...L-NON-MODULAR-DIESEL

FWIW, both are still available on Lionel parts.

@harmonyards posted:

In theory, you could use frame ground for one side of the rear coil coupler, …however, in my practice, I run both wires to the Cruise Commander to guarantee it fires and grounds back through the CC as advertised, ….I’m always worried that if tender ground is lost momentarily during a coupler energizing, it could possibly damage the coil coupler circuit, …….I’m sure some will say it’s fine, but that’s just the practice I do,……I don’t worry about the rear light, if the tender loses ground, then the light simply doesn’t come on, but no damage will occur…..color me funny I guess….

Pat

Your logic is sound Pat.  I never do an installation that doesn't have both power and ground over a real wire in the tether and not trying to use the track to wheel connections!  You're just looking for problems taking that shortcut.  The only exception is the AD-20A that I mentioned previously, with a truly wireless drawbar, I don't worry about floating grounds.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Your logic is sound Pat.  I never do an installation that doesn't have both power and ground over a real wire in the tether and not trying to use the track to wheel connections!  You're just looking for problems taking that shortcut.  The only exception is the AD-20A that I mentioned previously, with a truly wireless drawbar, I don't worry about floating grounds.

I completely forgot about the AD20A John, …..good choice to go with to go wireless,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I completely forgot about the AD20A John, …..good choice to go with to go wireless,….

Just another tool in the toolbox Pat.  I really like the IR drawbar, so I was keen on finding a solution to using it.

Thanks John, The AD20A looks perfect and a great price. I’m working on a Rutland 4-8-2 project and the wireless tether sounds great! So I assume I would need an additional board in the tender to interpret the ir signal. On the engine side, the led would connect to data and ground on the cruise commander?  Thanks so much!  Ed

@VT Railroad posted:

Thanks John, The AD20A looks perfect and a great price. I’m working on a Rutland 4-8-2 project and the wireless tether sounds great! So I assume I would need an additional board in the tender to interpret the ir signal. On the engine side, the led would connect to data and ground on the cruise commander?  Thanks so much!  Ed

The AD20A is the board in the tender that converts the drawbar serial data to to the coupler & light commands.  It also has the serial data output for the sound board.  For the locomotive, you can drive a 2-wire IR LED directly from serial data from the Cruise Commander, use the 4-pin connector for the sound board.

Your mention of a Rutland 4-8-2 project got my attention. Would love to here or see  what you’ve come up with. I did one a while back using the Lionel USRA Mountain as a starting point.

The Rutland Mountain project is just beginning. I picked up a Lionel Mountain shell and an MTH 4-8-2 chassis with motor, smoke unit and running gear for very little $$$.  I like the boxpok drivers on the chassis. They look great! I added a lionel steam chest and pilot. I found an MTH pacific tender that is similar to the one the Rutland used. It was not easy to remove the water shield that’s cast on. Everything runs even on O-31 curves.  I still have a lot of work to do.  I have an MTH drawbar with 6 connectors built into it. I built a couple of jst connectors for either end but an ir wireless drawbar would be fun to add. I have an ERR Sound Commander for larger steam but will have to order the Cruise Commander.  All of this should provide hours of enjoyment over the winter.  Have to decide whether it will be green or black.  Ed

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The AD20A is the board in the tender that converts the drawbar serial data to to the coupler & light commands.  It also has the serial data output for the sound board.  For the locomotive, you can drive a 2-wire IR LED directly from serial data from the Cruise Commander, use the 4-pin connector for the sound board.

John,

Is there a particular IR emitter/detector pair you recommend, preferably orderable from mouser/digikey?

Thanks

@christie posted:

Is there a particular IR emitter/detector pair you recommend, preferably orderable from mouser/digikey?

Truthfully, I had some IR components left over from years ago for another project, and I just used those.  As long as they're matching in the wavelength, it's not that critical what you use.  I stick with plain LED emitters and 2-wire photodiodes for simplicity.

VT Railroad, that’s kind of what I had in mind. I own an MTH L3a but it’s nice running model that was used on the B&A the other road I model. I did measure the 2 up and it sure looked doable to put the MTH chassis under the USRA Mountain. I’ve been looking for one of those tender shells for some time now but have come up empty. The biggest mods on mine were made to the engine. I removed the air pump  and adapted a Lima Demonstrator pilot with some added brass screen material. Filled in the running board and added another air tank, along with some other details. Switched out the trailing truck.  Yours sounds like a fun project. Definitely post some pics. of it when you complete it or even as you go along. Good to see someone else modeling the Rutland. There’s nothing out there dead on accurate but there are close enough models to work with.

Beautiful model! Really like the turret box. How did you do that?

Trial and error with brass. First effort turned out so so. The second attempt wasn’t perfect but probably the best I would get it. I bent a piece of sheet brass to the proper shape. Then cut a piece for the front the shape of the boiler and soldered it in place. A bit of filing. Sanded smooth and added some filler. I attached it with JB Weld and used that also as the filler. Did all the mock up with thin cardboard then when satisfied transferred it to brass. I knew I could never get a dead on Rutland 4-8-2. The goal was to give it some Rutland flavor and make it look less like a USRA Mountain. I already owned the engine which is a quality build with a Pittman motor. It was no longer seeing service on the RR so there was no hesitation once I looked into it.

It was actually forum member Chris Vigs that got me motivated. He models the New Haven and was making some of the same changes to make his more like the prototype.

I didn’t catch it the first time. Handles 031. You mentioned the MTH chassis being used. Is it Premier or Railking ?  Post some pics if you can. I added hand rails to my tender and a backup light from a Shay with the proper road number. I agree the MTH shell is the way to go. Although Chris did extend and taper his bunker with styrene. Still no one makes the sideframes for the trucks.
I’m afraid when Weaver closed up shop. That was the last chance to get a brass one. As they were very open to doing NE Steam. Speaking of brass. It’s tough to see details looking at old B&W photos. Presently on eBay there are some HO Rutland steamers in bare brass. I tend to use those models for reference.