Vision Line - Hudson & Genset Issues

Jeff

I am not an expert with Vision line . Two things i would try

1. see if the sounds were turned down or off by using the hand held to raise the sound level.

2. Try deleting the engine from the Legacy set and reload it with the orange module on the address you have assigned. You might also just look that the wireless tether is coupled properly and that its lined up ok.

Hope this helps

Jeff,

I have the UP Genset and had the same issues with the windows.  It has been a known problem to have popped out windows on these Gensets.  I had to glue back in place 3 windows and the front headlight.  I was missing 3 more windows and contacted Lionel's Customer Service by email and they sent me the parts I needed.  Look up the parts on the link below and reference the part number in your email to them.  They generally will send you the part at no cost to you.  The same thing happened to my R16 Subway set I purchased last year.  That was a widely known problem on that item as well.  You might want to check the remaining windows to see if they are secured in place tightly.  If not, I would glue them too.

As for the fan noise, I don't hear it if the loco is moving.  But if it is sitting still, it is a bit obvious and whiney.  Make sure the volume is turned up

Also, be sure that you didn't overfill the one smoke stack that is not functioning correctly.  Another thing would be to take the stack off and blow down into the hole to clear it of any possible blockage.

http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?doAction=productPartFilter&number=6208323002&productID=d4b36aa1-19d8-440a-b6c0-77008d17d2a3

Jeff - I am having the same smoke unit "squealing" issues with my new Legacy Mikado (bought in Dec 2012) - and there were some here that advised "just turn off the unit", or "that's normal", or, "just turn the volume all the way up and you won't notice it"! I said the heck with that - I expect a fully functioning item when I shell out my hard earned money for it. It has absolutely nothing to do with overfilling the reservoir or blowing down the hole.

In the past 4 months, that engine has taken two round trips to the repair depot in Ohio, and another recent trip to the "Smoke Unit Engineering Team" in Michigan to analyze and (hopefully) get my smoke unit to stop the horrendous squealing. They recently emailed me and stated that they had found "multiple sources of vibration" and had corrected the issue.  It's on it's way back to me now via UPS and should be here Tuesday, April 30.

Check out the discussion (and a couple of videos I posted to demonstrate the squealing)....

https://ogrforum.com/t...ny-repairs-is-enough

As for the Legacy base station charging issue -  it has also taken three trips (over 5 years' time) back to the repair shop to fix a defective charging circuit.  Seems like they repair the charger and it works fine for a year or so, then it dies.  To their credit, Lionel did these repairs free of charge even though the unit was out of warranty (as the charging problem is a known issue).  And, again, there were some on here who advised me to just turn off the charger and use an external charger from Lowe's or Home Depot - that it wasn't worth the trouble.  I say, bollocks!

Lyle, hopefully the 3rd time to the Lionel service center will be the last. A lot of these Legacy locos are spending to much time inside the UPS trucks.

I would call the service desk while having the engine turned on and ready to go. They can walk you through any Legacy command issues. If they and you determine something is amiss, then they will give you an RA no. for repair. For all Vision line engines I recommend this.

I quick check for the Hudson is verify that the IR tether is lined up with the engine. I appears that the engine is not communicating with the tender for sound commands.

My Vision Line Hudson 5344 (black) has been back to Lionel 4 times, Lionel did replace the smoke unit and other parts but offered ZERO advice , except to look at their viedos on smoke units. I got it back last week and the smokes OK. I turned the smoke unit off and don.t plan to use if often if ever again.

My units first trip was right out of the box as it ran about 4 loops and quit!!!

LIONEL NEED TO WORK ON QUALITY

They do have GREAT service

Brent

I have a MTH scale NYC 4-4-0 with a squealing smoke unit; typically oiling the

bearings will fix this.

I have only 2 Legacy locos, and use TMCC. My Legacy 2-6-6-2's sound has dropped out

a couple of times, but turning the track off and on again fixes it (shades of very early

Railsounds! Old problem is now a New problem). I got that loco cheap (but new-in-box) after it had received shipping damage, so I'm rather forgiving of it.

I presume that you have tried this off/on routine?

I couldn't agree more. AND they can do it, as witness my Vision GE Evo Hybrid and the CN version, both of which run perfectly.

What "smoke unit engineering team" and why in Michigan?? This is the first I have heard of such a team and I suppose that I am very glad!

A number of windows fell out of my genset as well, they're glued in now.

I'd check the alignment of the tether sensor for the locomotive, if that's not proper the tender will just be "idling".

I'm guessing the smoke unit will require a fan motor replacement.  You might consider the new JT Mega-Steam Eliminator fluid, it's been known to actually lube those fans and kill the noise. 

Hancock - all I know is that Mike Reagan gave it to a technical support expert named Jon - who, in turn, sent it to Michigan to their "smoke unit engineering team" lol

The sound level is not muted or otherwise turned down, especially known since the engine/tender happily go around the oval with the tender clearly in "idle" mode.

Just now attempted the removal and re-addition of the engine, nothing changed the tender is still in idle mode.

Thank you for the suggestions!

- Jeff

Thanks, I guess I am happy to know I am not the only person who as experienced this problem.  At first I could not understand where all of the parts were coming from so it was a little alarming to say the least.  Once I contact Lionel to get the missing window I will, lightly, glue the static windows in place.

 I have learned about the blowing in the stack hole to get things unclogged but have not do it with the Genset yet.  I will take a closer look tonight to verify my observation that when it is three stacks at once the third (regardless of position) fails to smoke as expected. 

Thanks for the research and providing the link for parts!

- Jeff

I had the genset window problem too. It looks like they're not glued in from the factory, but rather pop into the cab and there's a lip on the window thats supposed to hold. It seems to work poorly. I glue the ones that fall out back in with a little canopy glue, and they've held fine since.

Ouch, will check out the thread to see what others are experiencing. I thought I recalled something but honestly did not take the time to look from a general standpoint (ie; remove Genset from the search criteria).

I have read a couple things about the base station and charging so I guess it too will go back, hopefully to be "fixed" for free.  Although, I hope it is actually fixed which is your experience is not what I wanted to hear.

Thanks!

- Jeff

I am seriously considering this prior to sending it back, if they are willing to try.  So far I have done everything suggested above (and below) without any change.  Earliest I can consider trying will be Wednesday as I will be working from home that day, taking the wife's vehicle in for service.

Thanks!

- Jeff

Regarding the sound problem, I think that what previous posters were referring to was something of a bear trap if you hit AUX1 before adjusting the sound on most Legacy locos; this simply reduces the background sound of the engine, leaving the whistle and bell at normal volume. I think that you have to hit AUX1 again and then raise the volume to get the main sounds back.

However you describe the tender as puting out "idle" sounds which may mean no chuffing? That's odd.

Brent,

Engine actually smokes just fine and I have been careful filling both of the reservoirs though I might have gone a little too much on the steam whistle.

I will agree regarding the quality statement (also observed in other threads), two engines from the Red Carpet event and both have problems straight out of the box, it is a little disappointing.  The only plus side right now is I do not have a layout ready (or even a table built) yet, it is in the works.  And, the 20th Century Pullman cars to go with it are gifts I will receive later this year (obtained separately).

Thanks!

- Jeff

Jeff, put another Vision/Legacy tender behind the locomotive and see if you have sound.  If you have another Legacy locomotive, run your tender behind it and see what you have.  If you still have no sound, here is what you are dealing with.  The larger board is your Railsounds power board and the thin board to the front of the engine is your Railsounds audio board.  Both modular boards have 24 pin connections.  Pull each board and reseat it.  If no luck, from my experience you probably have a bad power board.  You can pull a power board from any Legacy or late odyssey tender and try it to confirm your board is bad.  That board is used in many engines.  Let us know how you make out.

Oh yeah, as it is a simple oval carpet setup right now there has been lots of simply unplugging everything without any improvement.

- Jeff

You are correct so I literally just went back downstairs and tested again, selecting the volume on AUX1, increasing/decreasing multiple times and checked the tether.  No change.

Thanks!

- Jeff

Jeff, can you fire the rear coupler?  Does the backup light come on when in reverse?

The module has nothing but engine type and number, nothing else.  I have put the engine on the track with no module and they run fine.

Excellent idea except the other two Legacy tenders I have do not match up to the Vision Line tetherless.

I just did another test and neither the reverse light or the rear coupler operate.

I honestly think I am at the point of placing the service call Wednesday in case they want to walk through anything prior to shipping.

Thanks!

- Jeff

Just continuing confirmation I am not special, especially if it happens to you! Gluing of the windows is absolutely in my future.

Regarding the tether, I've held it parallel by hand, power cycled the track and everything I can think of short of taking the engine apart which I prefer not to do since it is brand new.

Thanks for the suggestions! Clearly I am not going nuts which was my original thought....

- Jeff

Sounds like it's going on a trip to Lionel.

Before you send, put the tender alone on the track and let us know if the sounds come alive.  Did you reseat the boards as described?

Tender on the track alone immediately turns on with the idle sequence.  As for re-seating the board, I will admit I have not done that and at that point would prefer just to send it to Lionel.  Trying to keep in perspective I do not have the layout yet, probably not until the end of summer, so sending it off is not the end of the world.

Thanks!

- Jeff

Okay, after deciding the Hudson will most likely be shipped I put the Genset back on the track again. I will have to correct myself now that it is more of a buzz when the smoke is enabled. I installed the smoke stacks with the "flappers" and the first stack never opens, the other two cycle just fine. If I remove the stack there is a little smoke coming out, give it a quick blow and nothing changes. The buzz occurs regardless of the engine being turned on or off while sitting on the track. But, if I turn off the smoke the buzz disappears, so I now think this is something completely electrical. Guess I will find out tomorrow....

Have a feeling I will be carrying lots of boxes to UPS.

Thanks!

- Jeff

The NS genset has three smoke units, so it sounds like the first one has a problem.  Does this buzz happen all the time?  With the locomotive "shut down", the smoke units should not be running.

BTW, the flappers are somewhat a PITA, they clog up with smoke fluid pretty quickly.  I just use them as demo fodder, if I'm actually going to run the genset for any length of time, I use the straight stacks.

Jeff,

As an FYI, some of the early ES44AC's and the Gensets buzz with the engine turned off while power was supplied to the track.  There has been a few posts here on the forum regarding this issue.  Both of my VL ES44's and my UP Genset buzz under this same scenario.  However when the engines are running around the track, I don't hear the buzz at all.  It really doesn't bother me. 

I've included a recent post about the buzzing issue.

https://ogrforum.com/t...74#15649413439526074

John,

In all for sequences below there is power to the track through an MTH Z-1000:

Shutdown and smoke enabled - Buzz

Running and smoke enabled - Buzz

Shutdown and smoke disabled (via remote) - No Buzz

Running and smoke disabled (via remote) - No Buzz

As for the smoke stacks, I had the straight ones on before after reading the insert in the manual about the "flappers" needing regular cleaning.  I did have them on during the initial run just to see them.  This time I figured I would use them to verify which stacks worked and which did not, since there isn't always an abundance of smoke.

- Jeff

Paul,

I actually read that thread!  This buzz, and yes pulse, is extremely loud and annoying.  If I turn the engine volume up you can drown it out but if the engine sits idle it is so loud it might as well be running.

I actually started to take a video I was going to post (still might) and noticed the 1st and 3rd stack are working now but the 2nd stack is not.  When the 1st and 3rd genset are "engaged" they pour out smoke right away and then settle down, but the 2nd stack does nothing.  Last night the 2nd and 3rd stack would pour smoke and hard anything would come out of the 1st.  I powered down the track and will check it again later to see if (as I hope) the 1st and 2nd works, while the third fails (maybe?).  It is interesting....

Thanks!

- Jeff

That's truly odd, I'd think more of an electrical issue.  Each stack has it's own smoke unit, there is no mechanical connection between them.  The electronics decides which smoke unit to enable/disable.

Have you tried just ramping up the RPMs on the Genset manually to see if all three stacks smoke when you reach maximum RPMs? That is what's meant to happen.  Also, if you use the stacks with flipping caps on them and the hinges are clean, you should be able to tell which smoke units are running. I do find that the fans all work but there's relatively little smoke even on the high setting, except there's a bit of a boost when the unit first starts, but this may be the way the model was designed to work.

I've noticed that the genset isn't the smoker than most Legacy models are, and I suspect they were just being realistic with the smoke volume.  The prototype genset would probably barely have any visible smoke when the engines are running.  Mine has visible smoke from all stacks at full RPM, but it's nothing like some of the other engines.

Same here with my UP Genset. In various videos of the two Vision Line Gensets, including Eric Siegal's 2010 video review, I have seen them smoke appreciably more than mine does - even when I use Megasteam smoke fluid. It's a slightly disappointing aspect of what is otherwise a great effect; I don't know if the output on the real thing is minimal.

I'd have to say, if something like the prototype genset smoked a lot, it would probably be a candidate for the repair shop!  However, I'd still like a little more smoke than I get.   I'll probably pull it apart one day and repack the smoke units.

I used this method initially to see which smoke unit were working, ultimately between the noise and the inconsistency I could not figure out what was happening.  Only the rear unit would consistently smoke without a hitch but the first and middle would cycle back and forth.  Maybe the speaker noise and 1st/2nd smoke unit flakiness are related?

Regardless I got an RA number and shipped the two engines out, Lionel received them Monday last week (5/6) so the wait begins.  Completely forgot about the base station non-charging issue, so I will address that once the engines are back and confirmed working.    

Next up is fixing the smoke unit in another engine, my only other engine.....

Really though, lets be honest, I need start putting together a layout to run these on as opposed to the Carpet Railroad in place today.  (MANY designs worked through in RR-Tracks since December and hope to be posting for comments soon...)

Thanks!

- Jeff

Seems I've heard of certain issues sometimes occurring when running Legacy engines with MTH power supplies. Something about them generating a different type of current or something that can cause malfunctions in Lionel Legacy engines? Don't recall now. Just a thought - I think I remember some discussion on this at some point. But it may have nothing to do with this situation.