Was the Lionel Vision Line Big Boy really worth it a year later? Performance, reliability, etc.
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i have a friend who has one its a awesome loco but the BTO was something many bought into and were given a bill of goods because there are still bigboys out there to be had so for a performance stance yes it was worth it but for me i won't by into the hype of BTO because there will be someone out there who ordered more than everyone else and will have them for sale
Personally, I don’t think it was the price tag that most dealers were asking. Mine has been fantastic and haven’t had a problem with it – I just don’t think that it was worth $1,999.99. Perhaps $1,799.99 is a little more realistic.
it remains a very desireable item. you can get one at some stores but will pay
I bought one and although I really don't think the engine was worth extra $$$ for the "gizmos"I don't have to have. I do like it and have had no issues with it. I consider it a "touchstone" achievement for Lionel and our hobby as whole.
Personally, I love all the "gizmos", so I'm glad I got mine. 
Other than the cab light LED croaking, mine has been fine. I replaced that and all is well. I didn't want to risk shipping something this big and heavy for such a minor issue.
Phoebe Snow Route posted:... I just don’t think that it was worth $1,999.99. Perhaps $1,799.99 is a little more realistic.
I think folks will be asking the same question about the Allegheny a year+ after it hits the street. Its street-price is close to that of the Big Boy's, but it doesn't have all the VisionLine features.
David
The JLC version is a great alternative and is much cheaper.
Bob C.
I really like the engine and the 'gizmos.' The best part is when visitors see it and my VL Hudson....I usually have to pick their chins off the floor of those that only have a memory of the postwar transformer controlled engines.
I loved the 700E it was a awesome loco and the price was even better
To me-personally,all the extra effects are not worth the extra dollars spent. I really didn't need another Big Boy (Had nine in O scale already and five in HO-Marklin) and only bought a Vision #4014 out of curiosity. Yes,It's a real crowd pleaser. Yes,the effects are cool. Yes,the sound is awesome! The depleting coal load I could do without.If you desire all the extra special effects, by all means buy em' up folks-They're just not worth the extra cost to me. I'd be a happy camper with just whistle steam and the sound package.
i am with you boomer after a wile i just turn off the smoke unit and the sound and run it
It was the end of buying trains for me. I thought about buying the big boy but then I came to my senses.
When prices started to go up to the two thousand dollar range for the scale steam engines it was time for me to get out of O gauge. I just sold my last O gauge engine I had, sorry to see them go especially my scale steam but I realized I got priced out of the market for the items I like.
Im still into trains but on a smaller scale.
David1 i feel the same way i did not leave the scale hobby i left the hype about you have to buy it now no matter what the cost so like you these locos are just to much for this person budget
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Phoebe Snow Route posted:... I just don’t think that it was worth $1,999.99. Perhaps $1,799.99 is a little more realistic.
I think folks will be asking the same question about the Allegheny a year+ after it hits the street. Its street-price is close to that of the Big Boy's, but it doesn't have all the VisionLine features.
David
I guess it depends if you wanted a Big Boy or model the Union Pacific. I didn't want one or model the Union Pacific so I passed. The model looks impressive if I was a Union Pacific fan I would have bought one. I did buy the Allegheny because I model the C&O. True it doesn't have all the extras as the Big Boy but I really don't care. I do not buy model trains as an investment there are much things to invest your money in. If they are being blown out next year so be it I will buy the other numbers.
my limit is 2000. I fear that we will only see higher prices as time goes on.
Bob C.
It was worth 1800 in my opinion
It would be interesting to know on all off these BTO items what the production numbers really were. Does anyone know from the manufacturers stand point what the number is they require is as far as preorders before they cancel or produce an item?
It would be interesting to me to as what the actual production numbers are. My guess is 300-400 tops.I expect over time the production numbers "firm BTO orders" will get smaller and smaller until Lionel ends production of the ultra high end loco lines. There's going to be less and less buyers as time goes on. Same goes for MTH. In the future.I see only "boutique" builders like 3rd rail and small runs of 20-50 pieces. Great discussion,it certainly got me to thinking about how high the bar/prices will go and where the hobby is headed in the near future.
david1 posted:When prices started to go up to the two thousand dollar range for the scale steam engines it was time for me to get out of O gauge. I just sold my last O gauge engine I had, sorry to see them go......
Not sure I understand this. Why didn't you just run what you already had, and enjoy those engines and stay in O gauge? Besides, only the rare monster steamers sell in the two grand range. The vast majority of scale steam engines are priced considerably less than that, of course. Like most folks, if something's too expensive, I just wait and get it later at a more affordable price, or skip it.
I have several friends who bought the VL Big Boy. All of my friends are very happy with their purchases. No one has regretted buying it. They run them and I must say all the "bells & whistles" are awesome. I enjoy seeing them leading a long train on club layouts.
The only reason that I didn't buy it is that it is out of my price range and I model the NH.
NH Joe
fl9turbo2 posted:i have a friend who has one its a awesome loco but the BTO was something many bought into and were given a bill of goods because there are still bigboys out there to be had .......
Many of us on the forum mentioned at the time that there was no need to buy into this "bill of goods" (as you call it) with the Big Boy - that given how many were produced, there would be plenty of them available for a long, long time, and at prices no more than at the initial cost, if not less. That's exactly what happened.
breezinup posted:david1 posted:When prices started to go up to the two thousand dollar range for the scale steam engines it was time for me to get out of O gauge. I just sold my last O gauge engine I had, sorry to see them go......
Not sure I understand this. Why didn't you just run what you already had, and enjoy those engines and stay in O gauge? Besides, only the rare monster steamers sell in the two grand range. The vast majority of scale steam engines are priced considerably less than that, of course. Like most folks, if something's too expensive, I just wait and get it later at a more affordable price, or skip it.
I was going to say basically the same thing as breezinup said. David1, just curious as to why you choose to leave O gauge all together. I'm in no way criticizing just trying to understand. The Big Boy was out of my price range as well.
I like mine, no regrets. Should have larger track than 084, Still an awesome engine
Brent
Hudson J1e posted:breezinup posted:david1 posted:When prices started to go up to the two thousand dollar range for the scale steam engines it was time for me to get out of O gauge. I just sold my last O gauge engine I had, sorry to see them go......
Not sure I understand this. Why didn't you just run what you already had, and enjoy those engines and stay in O gauge? Besides, only the rare monster steamers sell in the two grand range. The vast majority of scale steam engines are priced considerably less than that, of course. Like most folks, if something's too expensive, I just wait and get it later at a more affordable price, or skip it.
I was going to say basically the same thing as breezinup said. David1, just curious as to why you choose to leave O gauge all together. I'm in no way criticizing just trying to understand. The Big Boy was out of my price range as well.
Just guessin'. Probably a lack of a layout?
Bruce
I am very happy with mine. Love all of the features and run NADA smoke in it so not the get the WIFE all mad. Great sounding and running piece of equipment. Real crowd pleaser. Only one bad complaint and when the whistle smoke is on it really blends in with the stacks but that is prototypical and nothing that can be done with that. Like mine and got it for a great price. I will run this for a while and like what Lionel is doing. Just wish the prices would stay in one place and not go up every catalog by 180 bucks for diesels.
These engines were "Built to Order". The fact is that some dealers bought more than what they had initial orders for so that they would have some to sell to others after seeing them in person. I doubt that there are very many left to sell now.I have one and couldn't be happier with it. Everything works fine and it pulls my long trains with ease. Now If I could just figure out how to make the blowdown work with the wifi on my ipad.
Robert Coniglio posted:The JLC version is a great alternative and is much cheaper.
Bob C.
This is what I did. $850 including shipping for new in the box JLC. I may buy one eventually but I will be paying much less than the BTO buyers. Just have to wait it out a little. John
Carl C posted:The fact is that some dealers bought more than what they had initial orders for so that they would have some to sell to others after seeing them in person. I doubt that there are very many left to sell now.
Most of the larger dealers are doing that with all the BTO stuff, of course. Dealers are gradually selling out of the BBs. However, there are something like 5 listed now on the Bay, and a number of dealers still have them listed. It's probable that there will be plenty of owners selling them continuously into the future. Some Lionel engines have gotten hard to find, but I don't think that'll happen with the BB. And a high percentage of those hitting the market will be unrun, too.
But I wouldn't know if the BB was worth it. The BB craze blew over me (and most folks, I suspect), not only because of price, but given it's size, it is useless except on very large layouts. Ask me about the Legacy Great Northern Mikado or the Legacy Lionmaster Challenger, though, for example. Yes, they were worth it. 
IF I had two grand to spend on trains(which I don't), I would buy nice original Lionel Standard gauge engines and cars.
brwebster posted:Hudson J1e posted:breezinup posted:david1 posted:When prices started to go up to the two thousand dollar range for the scale steam engines it was time for me to get out of O gauge. I just sold my last O gauge engine I had, sorry to see them go......
Not sure I understand this. Why didn't you just run what you already had, and enjoy those engines and stay in O gauge? Besides, only the rare monster steamers sell in the two grand range. The vast majority of scale steam engines are priced considerably less than that, of course. Like most folks, if something's too expensive, I just wait and get it later at a more affordable price, or skip it.
I was going to say basically the same thing as breezinup said. David1, just curious as to why you choose to leave O gauge all together. I'm in no way criticizing just trying to understand. The Big Boy was out of my price range as well.
Just guessin'. Probably a lack of a layout?
Bruce
Bingo!
Not only was I getting priced out of the market but having to move to a smaller space with no room for a layout it was decided to get out of O gauge. Why have thousands of dollars just sitting in their boxes.
Im still playing with trains but as I have said before, on a smaller scale.
I bought one honestly no it wasn't worth 2k . I do love the engine though.
SDIV Tim posted:It was worth 1800 in my opinion
mine was only $100 more then your number. (Charles RO very early order.)
I am happy with mine.
I treat it like a special car and only bring it out for special occasions.
Very glad we got it.
I have been reading these responses and laughing. I think having one of the Big Boys etc is, sort of, having a fancy, expensive girl friend. nice to have, show off, admire but you pay for it. Enjoy !! She is going to get saggy and wrinkles eventually but there will be new ones.
john dellagrotte posted:... I may buy one eventually but I will be paying much less than the BTO buyers. Just have to wait it out a little. John
Sorry, John. But I won't be able to help you in that department this time, since I didn't buy a VisionLine Big Boy.
David
Boomer posted:It would be interesting to me to as what the actual production numbers are. My guess is 300-400 tops. ...
If you're referring to the minimum needed to fill out a Lionel production run, I think we've figured out through the back door that the number is 300. Don't know if that's accurate or not, but think back to the order snafu with Charlie Ro's Polar Express scale Berks a couple of years ago. Lionel ended up re-running a bunch of those Berk models almost a year later: 50 reportedly when to Charlie as black P/E Berks and the remaining 250 became the silver-plated 115th Anniversary Berks.
Lionel has also been reportedly filling out production quantities with undecorated pilot locomotives as well. And most recently, a handful of units have been heading to Harry Hieke's studio where he works his fantastic weathering magic.
David
I have to say that I love mine, but not the price tag that I paid. Everyone who sees it, is amazed.
I think a lot of the scale steam prices are outrageous. Most are $800 or more. I understand that most are very detailed and have some great features, but I would love to know how much it costs to make them and how much the manufacturer is getting for a locomotive. I totally understand that they do what they do to make money, but the cost just seems to be high.
Chris
Phoebe Snow Route posted:.....I just don’t think that it was worth $1,999.99. Perhaps $1,799.99 is a little more realistic.
When spending that much money, is $200 a deal breaker? It's still a toy. Interesting.
Robert Coniglio posted:The JLC version is a great alternative and is much cheaper..
True. JLC models are at $1K. If you just want a BB, the JLC is great.
Mark Mcclung posted:I guess it depends if you wanted a Big Boy or model the Union Pacific. ..... The model looks impressive if I was a Union Pacific fan I would have bought one...
Mark, you nailed it. I model the UP & I'm very pleased with my VL BB. As a matter of fact, I bought a JLC BB from someone you know really well....
Robert Coniglio posted:my limit is 2000. I fear that we will only see higher prices as time goes on.
Bob, you can count on higher prices. That's a given. No Manf has disappointed us yet!
FWIW, I saw a VL BB sell for $1500 a few weeks ago-LN condition also. They're out there...
Rocky Mountaineer posted:...... And most recently, a handful of units have been heading to Harry Hieke's studio where he works his fantastic weathering magic.
Dave, guilty as charged! More than a few of those Hieke weathered models have found their way into my collection. They're very nice and unique.
crood58 posted:....I think a lot of the scale steam prices are outrageous....
Which is why I won't be buying anymore die-cast steamers-the prices are approaching brass territory and in some instances, based on the model, exceeding brass cost.
As for the VL BB, it's a fantastic locomotive and I'm glad I purchased mine.
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Phoebe Snow Route posted:... I just don’t think that it was worth $1,999.99. Perhaps $1,799.99 is a little more realistic.
I think folks will be asking the same question about the Allegheny a year+ after it hits the street. Its street-price is close to that of the Big Boy's, but it doesn't have all the VisionLine features.
David
The reason I passed.
I had fingers crossed for a Vision Allegheny, but I'm not a glutton and don't need to keep buying very expensive locomotives just for the sake of adding to an already large stable. I have 3 main lines and can't really enjoy more than say 3-4 locomotives at any given time anyway, and I'm not given to constantly rotating them on/off the layout as I like to take time to appreciate each one. At this point, I can wait, pick and choose.
In terms of the VLBB - I don't want to jinx it, but I must say it has charisma, panache and personality unlike anything else I own, including all my other Vision steamers (and despite me preferring my Vision Challenger due to the more and superior smoke effects). It's continued to work superbly and glad I bought it.
