Vision Line Challenger Opinions

Absolutely the BEST Steam Engine Lionel has ever made. It Operates and Sounds Fantastic. I have had NO problems with this Engine. The trouble you are going to have is to find one. You probably will spend at or over the MSRP. BUT it will be worth it. It has two FatBoy Speakers in the Tender and one in the Engine. You can't believe the SOUND!!  Get one, you won't regret it!!!

 

Fredstrains 

One of the guys in our modular layout group had one, and brought it over to my layout to "test it". The sound was VERY good, but the darned thing had a Squeak" in it, and hesitated on every one of my Atlas O switches. First thing we did was rotate 180 degrees, one of the pick-up rollers, which solved the switch problem.

 

For the next two hours we worked on the darned squeak! Short of disassembling the ****ed thing, which "voids the warranty", we finally gave up. He gave the model back to the dealer he purchased it from, and ordered the Sunset/3rd Rail SP GS-4 Daylight to pull his 12 car Golden Gate Depot Daylight passenger train. He is VERY happy, now.

 

Personally, I think that the VERY BEST Lionel Legacy steam model EVER made, is/was the Union Pacific FEF-3 #844!

I'm delighted with mine - the black UP version with elephant ears.  Mine was perfect out of the box and is perfect still.  No problems at all.  It runs very smoothly and linearly to control, the sound is fantastic, etc.  I love it.  It is arguably the best loco I own, smaller but newer with more features/better sound than the JLC locos, bigger and grander than the Vision Hudson, a bit better than any of the Legacy locos I have.  I run the Hudson more often only because it is smaller and fits my layout well - frankly the Challenger is a bit too big to really look good going around my 72" curves - boiler stick out and all, but I love it more than the Hudson - very impressive loco in looks, sound, steam, etc.

Id be in that group,alright well top 5 if you count some of the 3rd rail/Sunset models and yes the FEF 844.I have hundreds of home and club hours on it.  Didnt think there where many left to be had.  Its a ground pounding 3 speaker smoke fluid eating monster!

 

Old video when i first got it.

 

 

 

Not a UP fan, and there are other prototype Challengers that I prefer - the Rio Grande's

big, original 4-6-6-4's (L-105's, I think), the NP (etc) Z-classes (I have the 3rd Rail),

to name two - but, the Vision Clinchfield single-stack version of the Jabelmann ("UP")

design, the ones that went from Alco to Rio Grande (L-97's, I think) to Clinchfield (UP

never owned them)...oh, I do want one so. Clinchfield had to change the firebox and

drafting (hence the single stack) to make them work well in Appalachia on good Eastern coal, but was very happy with them after that.

 

The video - which is very enjoyable - does reveal yet again that Lionel and others still

don't get the exhaust on a four-cylinder steamer. The Vision Challenger's exhaust

"chuff" is incorrect. It is a simple four-cylinder, not a compound, and there should be

2 engines delivering a changing, syncopated exhaust sound. It should sound like a

pair of double-headed, unconnected steamers, which it essentially is.

 

But the exhaust sounds like the exhaust one would hear on a compound, such as the USRA 2-6-6-2.

 

Yet my old TMCC USRA 2-6-6-2 delivers an incorrect (for it) syncopated exhaust, which actually belongs on the UP Challenger. Backwards, again. 

 

I was surprised when the video revealed this error on the Vision Challenger.

 

I'd love to get one, but have been frightened off by all the bad initial publicity. I'm afraid I would end up with an expensive lemon!  Should I go for it?

Best train I own I had no issiue a with it though I did take it to lionel for the board swap..

Ain't nothing in life perfect, but I feel this is the greatest model locomotive ever made. Think that is too bold a statement  ?. . . . . . . Videos tell you what you need to know. Watch this in 720 or higher !!!

 

In this thread you've got two thumbs down (a return and my experience) and a comment on the sound not being prototypical; the rest is positive. Almost every video of this engine I have seen shows performance better than I have seen with mine, but then people generally don't post videos of poor performing models.

 

It's luck of the draw to some extent. I have both of the Vision Hybrid diesels and they have always run great, whereas other people have reported problems. Apart from them, however, each Vision line engine I have has had some issue although only the Challenger has been back to Lionel.

 

If you can find one it's likely to be a costly proposition. There's a new one on eBay now at a starting bid of $1,450 and buy it now at $1,700 but no bids yet. Probably overpriced even if it works but whoever buys it will be the one to find out if it does!

 

 

I think the $1700 one on eBay doesn't have warranty protection. Im getting this from his subtle statement that it is now registered after he sent to Lionel for a sound upgrade? Kind of risky to buy this one in my opinion. For all I know he could be sellng it because it's a lemon- and no warranty. Even if not a lemon, no warranty coverage still scares me at these prices. Think I will wait. Thanks for all the feedback. Sounds like it's a great locomotive.

A "bold statement"? Yes, especially with that "odd" exhaust!

 

I'll still stick with the Legacy UP FEF-3 as the BEST steam locomotive model that Lionel has made in the last 75 or so years, plus the sounds are CORRECT!!!

   Odd exhaust? What gives you THAT idea? It sure sounds CORRECT at speed......ah, what do I know. I don't even have a layout large enough for a challenger. Lionel is the ONLY manufacturer that gets the CADENCE of the CHUFFS of steam locomotives RIGHT.

 

 

 

>>A "bold statement"? Yes, especially with that "odd" exhaust!

 I'll still stick with the Legacy UP FEF-3 as the BEST steam locomotive model that Lionel has made in the last 75 or so years, plus the sounds are CORRECT!!!<<

 

My buddy has the VL Challenger and I have the FEF,  I've heard both many times.  I don't know about correct. What I do know is the FEF has a great whistle.  The VL Challenger has great sound, but its almost too good as my ears easily interpret its powerful sound as over amplified speaker sound.

Having correct sound is only half the battle.  the engine must have natural ear pleasing sound with realistic sound levels sized to the model itself.

IMO, the only Lionel steaml I've heard to date that meets all its sound objectives is the MR S3.

It is simply awesome in every way.

Joe

My Challenger meets this criteria in every way.  It sounds "natural enough" to me and really is a deep pleasing sound.  Other recent locos that have particularly good sound are the Legacy ATSF 3750/3759 Northern, Legacy Mallet, and legacy Southern Crescent - all extremely good, but the Challenger is just that little bit better. 

>>My Challenger meets this criteria in every way.  It sounds "natural enough" to me and really is a deep pleasing sound.<<

 

The engine does have great sound, but standing close or far away its easy to pick up its coming from amplified speakers.

Close your eyes and listen to the S-3 .. It has sounds so realistic and ear pleasing clean, it'll bring tears to yer eyes...

I could run that engine all day and never tire of it.

Joe

I like the sound of mine; I don't get worked up over whether the sound is completely accurate (and all I have to go by is videos of the UP's remaining Challenger, mostly at speed across the plains being tracked by foamers).

 

But I thought the defects in the other features let down the overall product, and I very nearly swore off later Vision products as a result.

 

Actually, the vision challenger does play 8 chuffs per wheel revolution. It's easiest to hear a slower speeds. Sometimes in operation the two sets of chuffs will overlap, and that sounds like 4-chuffs. That's what is happening in the video. But if you look at the video I link to below, at 17 minutes, 20 seconds, you can clearly hear the 8-chuffs per revolution in action.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7JeMGzUN0

 

Rudy

Well, the sound in all of them comes from speakers, doesn't it?  I had the opportunity to look at and listen to an S-3: it soundedvery much like a Legacy 3751/3759 Northern.  Not a surprise - any major difference would have been the surprise.  No tears in my eyes but a smile on my face with any of the three.  Still, I passed on the S-3 - two recent Legacy Northerns seems enough.  The Challenger sounds a bit "speaker-ry" if you have the volume up too high: I think the amplifier can overpower and "fuzz" the speakers , so I run mine at about 70%, where is still loud but sounds quite natural.

 

And mine does eight chuffs definately - very complicated sounds, better than the Mallet, or the JLC Big Boy or Allegheny. 

 

I agree with Scher on this one: this is the greatest model locomotive ever made -- so far.  The anticipation that that statement won't be true in a year is what makes anticipation of the new catalog so exciting for me.

 

As Scher said, just the