Choosing a Niagara engine , a black traditional version or the What if version. Any thoughts?
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my favorite is the NYC Niagara
If authenticity is important to you, all the Niagaras were black, otherwise, pick what appeals to you.
Jim911, that was an easy choice. I ordered both the black engine and gray engine from my guy Charlie Ro before I left York last October. I made my decision to buy after talking to Dave and Ryan. As A result of conversation with these men I learned what control package it would have and it will have metal gears.
Being a toy train guy who likes to operate scale trains, the grey Niagara was also a must have.
At first that was my choice Marty, but it's a lot of eggs in one basket. So many trains to buy!
First I hate the look of grey steamers, the look of grey big boys or challengers are offensive to me LOL.
The NYC never had grey Niagaras. The choice should be clear.
Gary, did you order the black one. I know you like the Central.
I agree, and usually go for the more authentic version, even though none of the Niagara locos are correct, in fact they only made one with the steam pop off valve, and it's number has not been represented. The what if versions are becoming interesting as is the Milw Rd S3 what if.
jim911 posted:I agree, and usually go for the more authentic version, even though none of the Niagara locos are correct, in fact they only made one with the steam pop off valve, and it's number has not been represented.
For what it's worth each and EVERY NYC steam locomotive, especially all the Niagaras, did indeed have safety valves, I.e. "steam pop off valve"!
The what if versions are becoming interesting as is the Milw Rd S3 what if.
The info I have enclosed states that only loco no. 5500 had the poppet valve. please confirm your source of information. Thanks
jim911 posted:The info I have enclosed states that only loco no. 5500 had the poppet valve. please confirm your source of information. Thanks
"in fact they only made one with the steam pop off valve, and it's number has not been represented."
There is a big difference between "steam pop off valves" and poppet valves.
Rusty
please explain, I would like to know more about these engines
Piston valves:
Poppet valves:
Pete
jim911 posted:The info I have enclosed states that only loco no. 5500 had the poppet valve. please confirm your source of information. Thanks
OK, now you have changed terminology from your first posting, i.e. "pop off valves" vs. "poppet valves". The "pop off valves", or more correctly referred to as "pop" or "Safety valves", are located up on top of the boiler, and EVERY steam locomotive had at least one Safety Valve.
Poppet valves take the place of the spool valves, located on/in the main cylinders. See the photos of the two different Niagara locomotives posted above.
Norton posted:Piston valves:
Poppet valves:
Pete
Yeah - why wasn't 5500 included in the new offerings? This new Niagara required all sorts of new tooling work, mostly invisible, admittedly, but what not go all the way and have the poppet valve version? I would be a 3RO coup. It's only money, and some of us want to spend it. Too much. I don't prefer the looks of the pumps on the running boards, but that's no biggie. I do like the almost Stephenson-looking valve gear (or lack of it). I guess that I'll have to haul out one of my Williams brass Niagaras and do the 5500...(like I'll ever get to it).
Poppet valves: many of you know this, but "poppet valves" are not exotic - your automobile has poppet valves, unless you own a Tesla and the like. The reason those pumps were moved to the boiler sides was because the poppet operating mechanism (camshafts and gears and such) was on the pilot deck and took up the space. Some loco poppet valves were actuated from the main driver (see C&O L2a Hudsons), looking at a glance like an eccentric - it was actually more a "concentric" - but actually turning a gear and shaft, moving the internal cams and so forth.
Poppet valve application was sketchily successful in steam locos (the 5500 was quite successful; the poppet PRR T-1 less so), and the bugs were never worked out, as the diesel electric came along and new steam locomotive technology was irrelevant, at least in the US. The 5500 was the first Niagara to be scrapped, I believe. An urban legend has it that the newly RR-influential General Motors (EMD) was embarrassed that it was superior to the E-7 in productivity and availability; all Niagaras embarrassed a lot of early diesels.
That's my poppet story and I'm sticking to it. Accurate corrections welcomed.
D500 posted:Yeah - why wasn't 5500 included in the new offerings? This new Niagara required all sorts of new tooling work, mostly invisible, admittedly, but what not go all the way and have the poppet valve version? I would be a 3RO coup. It's only money, and some of us want to spend it. Too much. I don't prefer the looks of the pumps on the running boards, but that's no biggie. I do like the almost Stephenson-looking valve gear (or lack of it). I guess that I'll have to haul out one of my Williams brass Niagaras and do the 5500...(like I'll ever get to it).
Poppet valves: many of you know this, but "poppet valves" are not exotic - your automobile has poppet valves, unless you own a Tesla and the like. The reason those pumps were moved to the boiler sides was because the poppet operating mechanism (camshafts and gears and such) was on the pilot deck and took up the space. Some loco poppet valves were actuated from the main driver (see C&O L2a Hudsons), looking at a glance like an eccentric - it was actually more a "concentric" - but actually turning a gear and shaft, moving the internal cams and so forth.
Poppet valve application was sketchily successful in steam locos (the 5500 was quite successful; the poppet PRR T-1 less so), and the bugs were never worked out,
Actually the "bugs" were "worked out", especially when Franklin Railway Supply management began refusing warranty claims as a result of PRR engine crews running the T-1s at speeds well over 110MPH.
as the diesel electric came along and new steam locomotive technology was irrelevant, at least in the US. The 5500 was the first Niagara to be scrapped, I believe. An urban legend has it that the newly RR-influential General Motors (EMD) was embarrassed that it was superior to the E-7 in productivity and availability; all Niagaras embarrassed a lot of early diesels.
That's my poppet story and I'm sticking to it. Accurate corrections welcomed.
Traditonal
I have a traditional one on order. I was a little wary of how the fantasy grey scheme was going to turn out. However seeing it here, that would have been a more difficult choice! It looks quite nice!
Looking forward to these....
