Weak Prewar Hudson Motor, Help in Getting To Run Strong Again.

Try a high output transformer.   The Z1000 is ok for can motors.  Your big  AC motor is power hungry.   It sounds like you know what you are doing and you did everything the right way.    My money is on the transformer.

I had a VLBB come to me with a very nasty note on how nothing works.  The man was using an old flyer transformer he received in 1949.   Back in the day that was rated at 14 volts output.   I would bet money it just might not put out 14 volts today.  The engine was run on my layout using a Z4K and ZW-L.  It ran perfect and everything worked.  

I love to see people using high output modern transformers to run trains.

ill give that a shot, maybe ill pull down a ZW or KW and see how that does. At first I was using my trusty 1033 but thought maybe the z1000 would do a little better since the 1033 was topping off at 18V

If trying a different transformer doesnt work, Can a motor just go bad? Can the field just stop creating a strong enough force to get the armature really spinning? I dont want to jump the gun and buy a NOS motor when this one right here just needs some love. 

You need to do meter tests on the armature and field to be sure the resistance is correct and that there is nothing grounded. Also check to be sure that the commutator is in the right place and has not rotated or is not loose. I would be testing the motor with leads to the brush holder and field coil so that everything else is out of the circuit. First determine the health of the motor, then worry about other potential problems. Does the problem exist in both directions?  By any chance is the collar missing off the motor shaft between the brush plate and the commutator?  Are the brushes the correct ones with pigtails?  You should be able to get it running properly or know why not. 

Another possibility I have run into in the past is the locomotive frame warped slightly due to age and that was binding the worm gear against the bearings, causing a lot of drag.

I've tried running my 763Es with a smaller transformer and it never worked well. Hook up your ZW and I bet you'll see an improvement. 

John

How are you measuring your voltage?  You need to measure it with the loco under power, not "open circuit."  A 1033 is only rated to 16V, so not sure how you're getting 18V out of yours?

I like David's advice about the commutator timing (alignment of copper segments and slots relative to the armature poles.)  If this has someow been shifted, the motor will run poorly.  And what Chuck said about the frame being warped.  Unfortunately I've seen several prewar Hudsons with warped frames.  One tell-tale sign is that the pilot (cowcatcher) has grooves or marks where it's struck the center rail.  Or someone has filed it down to restore the lost clearance.  If this is the case I'm not sure it can be fixed.  You might be able to source a reproduction frame from a modern era Lionel 18002 ("785") or 18005 ("1-700E").

The frame is not warped, I actually made the drive shaft a little tighter because it felt like it had excessive play.  As for the worm gear, it rotates freely. When I cleaned out the old grease I also checked the shims to make sure it looked good. If you say the 1033 outputs 16v then im sure your correct, I didnt test it yesterday I just know from past experiences that the mth transformer outputs more .

 Yes these are the correct brushes with pig tails. Good idea about testing the motor directly and bypassing all the other connections. Would a missing collar really make the motor perform weak? Also the issue is in both directions the same.

Can someone explain in detail how to run a correct resistance test on the armature and field.

Yes these are the correct brushes with pig tails.

This might be your problem. Older brushes with pigtails, whether purchased from a Lionel parts dealer or directly from Lionel are fine.
But a couple of years ago Lionel started selling brushes with way too much resistance. The problem goes back several years.
Here is a thread discussing the problem: Defective Lionel Motor Brush

By the way, until just now I though you were writing about a prewar Lionel train. Since you wrote "correct brushes with pigtails", I guess you have a reissue? Did prewar hudsons have brushes with pigtails?

Try the larger transformer first. The 1033 is a bit light for pre-war imo too. I have a couple that are limited pullers with the 1033 and nearly stall light on a 1032.

Armature- Measure ohms from plate section to plate section. All readings should be very near equal. No "shaft to section" continuity should be readable, a reading is a short.(o.5-1.5 ohm)

Field should not read from wire to plates. .I've seen as high as 2,7 ohm on a working field; not exactly sure what the spec would be. 

If the comm. plates/brush tubes don't shine bright and "raw" use very fine sandpaper. Sometimes erasers don't cut 100% of old oil/varnish buildups. 

The collar keeps the armature from moving toward the brush plate. If it is missing and the armature could move toward the brush plate and  the first thing to hit is probably the bush tubes rub on the commutator. The collar is part number 400E-119. Only place I have seen selling them is Smithies, but he has a $40 minimum. I guess you could put some brass washers between the coupling and the rear bearing. Most of the time when the brush plate is removed the collar stays on the armature shaft. But I have found them missing. 

well I pulled out a KW and it definitely made a big difference. The continuity tests assured that all is good with the motor. Its hard to tell if its spinning as fast as it should without the drive rods hooked up because only one wheel is spinning right now. Since one broke when I was cleraning it, I will have to wait for a replacement in the mail before I can put it all back together. 

 On a side note the original side rods have brass bushings where the wheels connect. Does anyone sell replacements that best match the original prewar side rods?

One thing to keep in mind is that these Hudsons have a very different gear ratio than the traditional open frame motors to give comparatively more of a scale speed operation.

Plus one on that.  Also, there was a guy in Pennsylvania who could rewind these old motors.  In the 1960s kids would rewind their own slot car motors.

But it sounds like your problem has been solved.

anyone know about a good source to buy replacement side rods? I would like to get ones that have the bushings like the original. All of the ones I see on ebay look more suited for a 64' 773

Many of the 763 parts were the same part as used on the 700E:

Check with these guys:

*Nyerges' Screw Company via L&L Model Train - http://www.llmodeltrain.com/NyergesBaSList.pdf

*Olsesn's Toy Train Parts - http://www.olsenstoy.com/cd/b123/000467.pdf

*Jeff Kane at the Train Tender - Give him a Call - http://www.ttender.com/

*Smitty's Toy Train Parts - http://stores.smittystoytrainp...700E&x=0&y=0

The 1-700E made in the 1990s uses the same side rods. They are available, just need to check around

Just as a note, the 1-700E and original 700E rods are not the same. I have original new 700E rods if needed.

Another note, in 1940 the gear ratio changed significantly, from 10:1 to 18:1. If a later geared driver was installed in an earlier unit with the 10:1 worm gear, it would run very rough, if at all. Ditto in reverse also.

chuck please email me NLVETS333@AOL.COM , I would love to get a hold of side rods