Weekend tinplate photos/videos 1/19/18!

New toys from CMT.

Steve

This week some "modern" British tinplate. An ACE 3-rail 0 gauge Mallard locomotive with tinplate coaches.

Regards

Fred

Main street on my  12 ft. X 8 ft. American Flyer Lines modern standard gauge layout.  Track is USA trains on Hobby Innovation Timon’s roadbed.  Switches and most buildings by M T H.  The cars and people are 1/32 scale. Sceniking provided the backdrop. I run both DCS and conventional. Most rolling stock is by M T H.  There is some Lionel Classic and several Ives and American Flyer originals.

Anatomy of a Footnote - American Flyer's Set #15

  From 1914-1921 the American Flyer catalog featured train sets #16 and #15 with separate illustrations.  Starting in 1922 Set #15 was relegated to footnote status with the notation below the illustration for set #16:

 "Train No. 15 - Same as No, 16 with one less passenger car, 12 pieces of track."

  The same illustration and footnote was used in the 1923 catalog.

  In 1925 Flyer added an observation car to the #16 set and the catalog for 1925 described dear old Footnote #15 as below:

Both sets were featured in this manner through 1926 and then disappeared from the catalog line-up in 1927.  In 1929 Set #16 was resurrected as the Prairie State Set but set #15 had rolled into the sunset.

  What is interesting is that, while the catalog states Set #15 is the same as #16 but with one less car, the handful of 1922 and later boxed sets I've managed to view over the years insist there is a small cosmetic difference.  The passenger cars in the #16 sets for those years had litho car numbers of #1103 whereas the passenger car in Set #15 has a car number of 1306 (Both sets had the same baggage car - #1205).

American Flyer Set #15 - 1925

  I don't know if what I have seen is nothing more than sample bias or if indeed this small cosmetic change was an attempt on the part of American Flyer to visually differentiate Set #15 from Set #16 beyond the obvious lack of a second passenger car.  Either way, I think it's an interesting bit of toy train trivia.

Wow, Its a new weekend and time for another tinplate thread; and folks are still posting to the thread from last week.  That has to be a record.

The streamlined cars that I posted last week were very popular.  So let me post examples of all the colors that they came in.

The green cars were cataloged from 1936 through 1938

(Terry likes these)

Blue cars were cataloged in 1938 and 1939.

(Steve likes these)

Red cars were cataloged in 1939 and 1940.

(Dennis likes these)

Chrome cars were cataloged in 1938 and 1939

(Dennis likes these too)

Then there were two color variations of the cars that were used for  recognizable trains.

Union Pacific Streamlined sets were cataloged in 1936 through 1939.  There is actually a light yellow version and a dark yellow version.

I like all of them, but I think that my sentimental favorite is the Hiawatha.  The Hiawatha color scheme was available in 1936 and 1937

It boasts its own distinctive end to the observation car.

Have a Great Tinplate Weekend

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg have you ever seen the yellow and brown cars with 6 wheel trucks as shown in the Greenburg book?  Those would be a nice find as well. 

On a violet binge lately. Just had to pick this one up.

Greg, Many thanks for sharing with us your knowledge of American Flyer. They have produced some really wonderful pieces unfortunately rarely available in France and Euro countries.

I have some Wide Gauge AF at home to share, first one is a 4692 steam engine which is  a great running model, and a perfect looking one for me.

And also a 4633 with the bell mechanism still waiting for a string of matching passenger cars.....

Have a great American Flyer tinplate weekend,   Daniel

Didn't the lighter Union Pacific set come in 4-rail in 1936 with the whistle?

Steve,

Are those CMT cars new production?

Ken

CHRIS: GREAT AF WG poster & photo!  SNCF231E: AWESOME Mallard and HANDSOME rake of carriages! 

Canonball posted:

Steve,

Are those CMT cars new production?

Ken

Ken, yes, new for 2018. There are a few more new ones also on the website.  https://sites.google.com/view/cmtllc

Steve

Although I singled out Chris and FRED for compliments, ALL posts on this thread are GREAT! THANKS for sharing, and keep 'em coming! :-)

I must be an idiot, I'm gonna have to sell a few Scout engine's and broken SP caboose shells to pay for this pile...  I think the cars are the prewar versions of the 40cm cars.  Looks like the drivers are sound, but the small wheels need replaced and of course it need the trailing truck.  Does not look like interiors were installed in the cars either.  Paid more than I wanted too, but the same as I see single engine's going for in the same condition or worse.  We'll see. 1930's Marklin HR66 12920 loco with the 19400/41/42/44 cars.  I'm not use to this, feels like I just jumped off in the deep end! I think I'm going to have to finish my high line wide radius loop now...

Thanks Steve.

I'm going to have to get in touch with David.

Ken

Dennis Holler posted:

Greg have you ever seen the yellow and brown cars with 6 wheel trucks as shown in the Greenburg book?  Those would be a nice find as well. 

Dennis,

I believe that was an un-cataloged set that usually came with a 435 steam engine.  I personally have never seen those cars, but they would be quite a find.  With the 6 wheel trucks they would not have any underfloor pans - no room with the longer trucks.  There is also an un-cataloged set of Hiawatha cars that was headed up by a black steam engine (Not sure which one at the moment).  The best guess is that it was marketed though only one outlet somewhere out east.  Now that would be a find!

Have a Great Tinplate Weekend

Nortwoods - Flyer

Greg

Dennis Holler posted:

I must be an idiot, I'm gonna have to sell a few Scout engine's and broken SP caboose shells to pay for this pile...  I think the cars are the prewar versions of the 40cm cars.  Looks like the drivers are sound, but the small wheels need replaced and of course it need the trailing truck.  Does not look like interiors were installed in the cars either.  Paid more than I wanted too, but the same as I see single engine's going for in the same condition or worse.  We'll see. 1930's Marklin HR66 12920 loco with the 19400/41/42/44 cars.  I'm not use to this, feels like I just jumped off in the deep end! I think I'm going to have to finish my high line wide radius loop now...

Dennis, Great Pieces. Those Marklin pieces are great candidate to restore, you can find all missing parts near German train restorers who have all the parts you need, they are just a little pricey..... I would be more than happy to find a set as this, maybe with just a serious cleaning it will look much better. Passenger cars were sold with or without interiors but you can also find spare interiors regularly on Ebay in Germany.

If you have too much projects and want to trade that set for "a few Scout engines" you can send it to me.

All my best wishes for that great project.

Jim O'C posted:

 

Didn't the lighter Union Pacific set come in 4-rail in 1936 with the whistle?

Jim,

The 1936 set did have a whistle car and therefore would have run on the 4 rail track with the Masonite base.  I thought that set came with black 4 wheel trucks.  I'm not sure about the years that the color changed, but I bet you are right.  With American Flyer Pre war you can never say never

I like your violet post. 

Have you ever seen the version of American Flyer's Dixie Queen that is a shade of violet?

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Dennis Holler posted:

I must be an idiot, I'm gonna have to sell a few Scout engine's and broken SP caboose shells to pay for this pile...  I think the cars are the prewar versions of the 40cm cars.  Looks like the drivers are sound, but the small wheels need replaced and of course it need the trailing truck.  Does not look like interiors were installed in the cars either.  Paid more than I wanted too, but the same as I see single engine's going for in the same condition or worse.  We'll see. 1930's Marklin HR66 12920 loco with the 19400/41/42/44 cars.  I'm not use to this, feels like I just jumped off in the deep end! I think I'm going to have to finish my high line wide radius loop now...

 

Congrats on that group - I was watching that item just for idle curiosity, as I've always had a soft spot for that Marklin line. Enjoy your project!

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Jim O'C posted:

 

Didn't the lighter Union Pacific set come in 4-rail in 1936 with the whistle?

Jim,

The 1936 set did have a whistle car and therefore would have run on the 4 rail track with the Masonite base.  I thought that set came with black 4 wheel trucks.  I'm not sure about the years that the color changed, but I bet you are right.  With American Flyer Pre war you can never say never

I like your violet post. 

Have you ever seen the version of American Flyer's Dixie Queen that is a shade of violet?

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Yes, Greg is was in a violet state of mind because I just recently purchased a Flyer violet passenger coach from Ray Ellen with curly-q couplings. Thought it might have been used in a presidential or bluebird set but it seems to be a 3150 series coach with the 1938 curlies, so I am not sure what it came from. I'll post pictures once I get it out of storage.

Dennis: I am definitely no expert on Marklin, but I would trade ANY scout engines for that awesome Marklin set! Would not think twice!

That beautiful set has all the "patina" of childhood use, and it deserves, at a minimum, some shelf space, if not a partial restoration!

Dennis Holler posted:

I must be an idiot, I'm gonna have to sell a few Scout engine's and broken SP caboose shells to pay for this pile...  I think the cars are the prewar versions of the 40cm cars.  Looks like the drivers are sound, but the small wheels need replaced and of course it need the trailing truck.  Does not look like interiors were installed in the cars either.  Paid more than I wanted too, but the same as I see single engine's going for in the same condition or worse.  We'll see. 1930's Marklin HR66 12920 loco with the 19400/41/42/44 cars.  I'm not use to this, feels like I just jumped off in the deep end! I think I'm going to have to finish my high line wide radius loop now...

Dennis, swimming in shark infested waters now with the addition of Marklin O.

Next week, Robilt, Katsumi, Consoli?

Jim Z posted:

Jim Z,

What a great picture.  If I didn't already collect tinplate this photo (and your layout) would have me hooked.  Please show us more. 

I really like the MTH villas which are enlarged versions of the ones that they have available for O gauge.  How many different buildings have they done,  and how many color variations?  I have found 2 different styles of buildings.  Are there more?  I went to the MTH website, but apparently I am not very good at searching.  

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Will this Marx 999 starter set train count as Tin Plate.  I have had it since the early 1950s?

Still run it on my layout.

Charlie

FRENCHTRAINS posted:

Greg, Many thanks for sharing with us your knowledge of American Flyer. They have produced some really wonderful pieces unfortunately rarely available in France and Euro countries.

I have some Wide Gauge AF at home to share, first one is a 4692 steam engine which is  a great running model, and a perfect looking one for me.

And also a 4633 with the bell mechanism still waiting for a string of matching passenger cars.....

Have a great American Flyer tinplate weekend,   Daniel

 

Daniel,

American Flyer may not be very plentiful in your part of the world, but you certainly have found some stunning examples.  Are you looking for the Lone Scout set cars?

Thanks for sharing your collection through your photos.  I am very tempted by many of your posting.

I hope you have a great American Flyer Tinplate Weekend as well,

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Daniel,

American Flyer may not be very plentiful in your part of the world, but you certainly have found some stunning examples.  Are you looking for the Lone Scout set cars?

Thanks for sharing your collection through your photos.  I am very tempted by many of your posting.

I hope you have a great American Flyer Tinplate Weekend as well,

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg,  I think that a Lone Scout set of cars would match perfectly with the 4633, i have a set illustrated in a catalog and i don't think that the 4633 have been sold with freight cars.  i missed a set on eBay but one day it will come. 

For the moment my only original AF set in wide gauge is the entry level 4643 which was called "The Brigadier" in a 1927 catalog. The railway mail car is an addition to the set. Sorry for the quality of the picture it is an old one taken with one of the first digital camera.

Daniel

Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Will this Marx 999 starter set train count as Tin Plate.  I have had it since the early 1950s?

Still run it on my layout.

Charlie

 

 

it sure does Charlie! great looking set.

Dennis Holler posted:

I must be an idiot, I'm gonna have to sell a few Scout engine's and broken SP caboose shells to pay for this pile...  I think the cars are the prewar versions of the 40cm cars.  Looks like the drivers are sound, but the small wheels need replaced and of course it need the trailing truck.  Does not look like interiors were installed in the cars either.  Paid more than I wanted too, but the same as I see single engine's going for in the same condition or worse.  We'll see. 1930's Marklin HR66 12920 loco with the 19400/41/42/44 cars.  I'm not use to this, feels like I just jumped off in the deep end! I think I'm going to have to finish my high line wide radius loop now...

"Hi...my name is Dennis and I have an addiction......."

I don't need any Scouts....and have too many broken SP shells....what else ya got? 

You are finding some sweet stuf! I love that locomotive...but needs a bigger tender!

Greg, I believe the other violet coach I bought from Ray Ellen is the 3151 passenger coach in the 1314 Dixie Queen set.

Robert S. Butler posted:

Anatomy of a Footnote - American Flyer's Set #15

  From 1914-1921 the American Flyer catalog featured train sets #16 and #15 with separate illustrations.  Starting in 1922 Set #15 was relegated to footnote status with the notation below the illustration for set #16:

 "Train No. 15 - Same as No, 16 with one less passenger car, 12 pieces of track."

  The same illustration and footnote was used in the 1923 catalog.

  In 1925 Flyer added an observation car to the #16 set and the catalog for 1925 described dear old Footnote #15 as below:

Both sets were featured in this manner through 1926 and then disappeared from the catalog line-up in 1927.  In 1929 Set #16 was resurrected as the Prairie State Set but set #15 had rolled into the sunset.

  What is interesting is that, while the catalog states Set #15 is the same as #16 but with one less car, the handful of 1922 and later boxed sets I've managed to view over the years insist there is a small cosmetic difference.  The passenger cars in the #16 sets for those years had litho car numbers of #1103 whereas the passenger car in Set #15 has a car number of 1306 (Both sets had the same baggage car - #1205).

American Flyer Set #15 - 1925

  I don't know if what I have seen is nothing more than sample bias or if indeed this small cosmetic change was an attempt on the part of American Flyer to visually differentiate Set #15 from Set #16 beyond the obvious lack of a second passenger car.  Either way, I think it's an interesting bit of toy train trivia.

Which set or sets would have had red versions of those cars? I have a couple of the 1306 coaches, a 1205 baggage and an observation. I thing they are little newer based on the roof profile.

Jim,

The Dixie Queen comes in two very similar color variations.  One is more violet in color.

In these two photos the difference can be difficult to see.

This photo of the more violet set in its boxes tends to show the violet color a little better.

A side by side comparison of the cars together shows the difference a bit better

In person the color difference is much more distinct.

The Dixie Queen was in the catalog in 1930 and 1931, quite a few years before the curley cue coupler was used.  I will be interested to see your car.  I wonder if it is something that Flyer put together to clean out the factory or if it is an alteration by a previous owner.

The variations in Flyer can seem to be never ending.

Northwoods Flyer 

Greg

Steamer posted:

Dennis Holler posted:

I must be an idiot, I'm gonna have to sell a few Scout engine's and broken SP caboose shells to pay for this pile...  I think the cars are the prewar versions of the 40cm cars.  Looks like the drivers are sound, but the small wheels need replaced and of course it need the trailing truck.  Does not look like interiors were installed in the cars either.  Paid more than I wanted too, but the same as I see single engine's going for in the same condition or worse.  We'll see. 1930's Marklin HR66 12920 loco with the 19400/41/42/44 cars.  I'm not use to this, feels like I just jumped off in the deep end! I think I'm going to have to finish my high line wide radius loop now...

"Hi...my name is Dennis and I have an addiction......."

I don't need any Scouts....and have too many broken SP shells....what else ya got? 

You are finding some sweet stuf! I love that locomotive...but needs a bigger tender!

 

Dave, He first has to admit he has a problem. I think the 2 of us need to stage a "Tinplate intervention." Not sure what that would involve, maybe Barclay figures surrounding him? Poor guy (literally!) 

Tom 

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Jim Z posted:

Jim Z,

What a great picture.  If I didn't already collect tinplate this photo (and your layout) would have me hooked.  Please show us more. 

I really like the MTH villas which are enlarged versions of the ones that they have available for O gauge.  How many different buildings have they done,  and how many color variations?  I have found 2 different styles of buildings.  Are there more?  I went to the MTH website, but apparently I am not very good at searching.  

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

MTH calologed Ivory and Peacok 1189  and the Cream and Red 1191villas from 2011 to 2014.  In 2010 they listed a red 1191 with a green roof.  I tried to find one without success. I also found a place for the two Bungalows.

Jim

Come on Tom, Your the one with multiple prewar scale switchers!   This set cost me less than a new Legacy K4 ...   There was another HR66 12910 engine listed a week ago with no tender and missing about the same parts that went for close to the same money as this whole set.  BTW, don't even bother looking at them on the German ebay site, they go for more over there than here from what I can tell.  Engine's for 1-2k and 40 cm cars from 250-600 plus, all depending on condition.  They are a bit crazy.  btw, there is another smaller set listed now with the E70 12920 which is a 4-4-0 and three of the shorter series cars which also makes a great set.  I was looking at it until I saw this set and decided to take a big swing at the big set.  This will probably land me on the DL for train buying for a while .  btw Dave, just let me know when your ready to come help me out and load some trains in your truck for that trip back to Ohio   I promise, I won't sell you any Scout engine's 

Dennis Holler posted:

Come on Tom, Your the one with multiple prewar scale switchers!   

I knew you would not want to admit your problem! Yes, this is about your problem. We don't have enough bandwidth to deal with my  problems! 

Hey, why is your memory so good? 

Good luck with your new stash. 

Tom 

I'm on the phone with U Haul checking prices on their largest truck.......

MNCW posted:

Dennis Holler posted:

Come on Tom, Your the one with multiple prewar scale switchers!   

I knew you would not want to admit your problem! Yes, this is about your problem. We don't have enough bandwidth to deal with my  problems! 

Hey, why is your memory so good? 

Good luck with your new stash. 

Tom 

I'm so screwed up you can't even imagine.  I used to walk around work with entire bills of material for CAT gensets I had designed stuck in my head for years afterword.  Was great when people asked questions and I'd just stand there deadpan and say oh, you need such n such part and install it xyz.  It was  great A couple of years ago we went from negative build to positive build which caused all new part numbers and groups for the same essential parts and assembly groups.  That messed my whole existence up, it really caused a lot of people some pain, especially the dealers since it was all but impossible to cross reference new/current to the old stuff and that is exactly what they needed to do.  Anyway, enough of that soap box.  So I can remember numbers but not stuff like names or streets... go figure.  Guess I am half rainman