At the risk of opening Pandora’s box here, if the manufacturers are upset, why aren’t they allowed to sell their products?
GHD posted:At the risk of opening Pandora’s box here, if the manufacturers are upset, why aren’t they allowed to sell their products?
Most manufacturers do their best to partner with their dealer network, not be a competitor to them. Dealers, of course, compete among themselves, but if/when manufacturers sell product direct to consumer, it usually is for list price.
Since the local hobby stores, along with repair service, are disappearing wouldn’t it be nice to be able to buy new product and have it repaired at York? I believe MTH and Lionel use to do repairs at York. Service is getting to be a real problem.
Peter;
First, thanks for starting this thread - I can hear Bing Crosby singing in the background...
You got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-between
You got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene
So, for what it’s worth, here are my thoughts. For starters, let me say I am not like a lot of the folks here who’ve gone to more Yorks than years I’ve been on this earth (63 years) 
I came to York rather late in life and have only been to three. I am also the poster child for the lone wolves, so the social aspect (which some applaud and other decry) isn’t a draw for me. I also, due to two VERY bad knees, have only gone for three or so hours on Thursday. And here is the killer - I have spent a good bit of money at York, but I have never bought a single train car. I have found York to be an invaluable source of “scenicing” supplies such as buildings, ballast, and such. I would greatly miss York if it were to go away. That being said, here are some possible suggestions for outreach to the local/general public:
- There is a group, I believe in the DC area (and several members post here, but I can’t remeber their name - please forgive my forgetfulness) who do some amazing outreach to their local community. Every year, they seem to hit a veteran’s center and grade school. What if the ED scheduled a visit for some veteran’s group(s) to at least see the layouts on display. In addition to the good will that such a visit would generate, you couldn’t pay for that kind of publicity - the local media would eat it up, and the vets would probably love it even more.
- a similar effort to reach out to some local schools might also be advantageous, especially if a layout or some sort of demonstration could be arranged with WiFi or Bluetooth control to draw in the smartphone obsessed crowd!!!
- I am constantly amazed at the talent of the collective group on this Forum when it comes to servicing/upgrading equipment. As an admitted techno-peasant, I would love if the ED could set up some seminars to go over basic, intermediate, and advanced servicing. It would require a separate room, some audio-visual wizardry, and an engaging presenter, but it would be interesting IMHO.
- and while we are talking about seminars, how about one on scenic techniques... I know Scenic Express does some on the aisle by their booth, but I think it wold go over better in a quieter, more controlled setting
- there are home shows in my area (NE Pennsylvania) where they have a “collector inspector” who will do appraisals of antiques... how about a group of knowledgeable TCA members who would be willing to evaluate those old trains people tend to have laying around.
- I would hope the ED has done this, but have they tried to engage with local train clubs to encourage their attendance/participation???
That’s my two cents worth, and I’ll understand if you want change 
shawn posted:Lol. You might think this is nuts. But, how about getting the schools involved. A field trip?
It can be part of a History tour including other areas of PA. Bring, the parents.
SS
Topics at York for the students can also include dinosaurs, evolution, and marketing ('how not to...").
Allan, I know you said most, but when Lionel sells product to the big boys that sell it for less than my local hobby shop can buy it, maybe it’s time to rethink things. I can’t help but wonder if that policy led to Lionel being swamped with repairs such that they would only do warranty repairs. Perhaps some people will pay list price to get a product. My local shop has a sign that reads “ The best time to buy a train is when you see it “. I’m glad to see what I consider to be good pricing for starter sets and there’s good variety.
beachhead2 posted:I'm ignorant regarding the history of the York location so maybe it's sacrosanct. But Delaware is less than 75 miles away and I believe they have no sales tax. If the state of Pennsylvania wants to be a PITA, then there's a nearby option.
York is a holy site, originally settled by the Romans, and later taken by the Vikings, so we must revere it. Oh wait, that's the other York.
Seriously, Delaware is a fair outside-the-box suggestion. However, for folks coming from the west, Delaware adds 150 miles to the round trip, which would cut it down to no more than once a year for me (and I suspect others too). Also, the York area has a lot of other attractions that bring people in. Would people come to a different location?
One thing that needs to change to promote York is the people who enforce the rules need to lighten-up and remember that without both table-holders and non-table-holders, a train meet would not exist. I was lambasted by a meet official during the Thursday morning set-up hours. On the final trip from my car to the hall, instead of walking directly back to my table, I took the long way and went down an aisle other than the one where my table was located so I could see what those members had for sale. I had no intention of buying anything as the meet wasn't open yet, and was just looking. This official was beyond rude, and for what? Looking at trains for sale? I had just about decided not to return in October, but the official did the right thing, and came to my table and apologized. A little courtesy and decency would go a long way toward promoting York as an enjoyable event.
John
Just got back from York. 5 th visit and here is my take:
1) You have to advertise! No signs anywhere?
2) Reach out to the Manufactures and throw them a bone to show up, demonstrate, and give them the room to sell their stock
3) the Members isle is a disaster. set tables up so the venders sit on the inside of the row of tables. use additional halls if need be. but get the people flowing in and out! I cannot tell you how many times I could not get through due to carts or venders rearranging their display, or just talking rude people.
4) Improve the food! Host a pancake breakfast THURSDAY am before the 12 pm start. Have a raffle too.
5) Educate people on the prewar, postwar, MPC, Modern era products with a video presentation they can attend.
6) Sell tickets to a one off or ten off collectable car... with signatures, or just a I love York on it...
7) Announce new products to come see before the show and where on the hall map to see them
8) How about a live steam train ride for the adults/kids in 1:8 scale. There are clubs that could set up and travel for the weekend
9) You have to set up communication with other running railroads in the area to set up special runs. Did anyone know by chance the Everett Railroad ran a 3 hour special run on Saturday? I bet nobody knew. Did the Strasburg run any photo run by for the fans?
10) Issue maps for the local must see hobby shops in the area
11) stop the early covering of tables before the show ends
This is only a start. I have many more ideas...
I've been following this thread, I guess its time that I offer up some proposals.
The T-shirt giveaway that was suggested earlier is a good one. If you sign up for running races you get a t-shirt. Guess what people do with those shirts? They go running in them, they see other runners who see the shirt and go home and google the race. I don't know how many races I've found because I saw someone wearing a shirt of a race that sounded good. Give away a couple thousand shirts (first XXX to get to the Silver Hall at noon or whatever). Sure, some of them will end up as track cleaning rags, but at least a few are bound to end up being worn to another train related venue where someone who doesn't know will see it.
Clubs that do layouts at York should be given an official York boxcar. Same reason as above. Those cars resurface elsewhere with visibility to the desired audience.
Send posters to all of the registered dealers 2 months prior to the show. Surely their customers will want to know about it if they don't already.
Set up a clinic room, offer vendors something to put on a clinic, maybe even charge to attend it. As mentioned, some people do it in the booth, but what if it were offered as a hands on? It could get people to spend some more money in the booths if they learn how to do something they were otherwise hesitant to mess around with. Some examples:
Scenery 101 - give everyone a 1x1 foam square and some materials to follow along with the demo
Scenery 201 - maybe introduce things like static grass, water, etc..
Weathering 101 - comb the halls, find a $10 boxcar and bring it along, weathering supplies provided to follow along
Painting mass production plastic buildings for realism 101
Locomotive service essentials - bring a loco, here's the grease, oil and knowhow
I realize there's interest groups and things that meet now (LUG, DCS group, Greenberg's group, etc...) but maybe adding workshops is worthwhile.
Hello Friends
I wanted to add my two cents. I am in my late fifties. (Wow, that is hard to read) Getting up there. But if I am paying attention correctly, I am in the younger group of train enthusiasts, and OGR forum members. I could be wrong. That's my impression. I attended the 2018 York show, as a member of TCA. This was my first show. I have to think that I may be in the sweet spot of perspective customers. I am still working and I am in the middle of building a sizable layout. I bought my first conventional engine last August, and acquired a scale Allegheny in January. I have new grand kids and they are my excuse for building the layout. (Threw them right under the bus)
I arrived in time to go through the show on Thursday. I was impressed with the way the TCA conducted the incoming members and guests. I was able to meet the person in charge of incoming RVs also. Very nice. York was a great social event. I saw everyone I expected to see there, except Woodland Scenic. Scenic Express did have a nice display. I made new friends and learned much about the hobby.
I believe the single most important challenge the York show and the hobby in general, is the aging population. While it was great to see young people at York, there weren't that many. Unless MTH and Lionel can get more kids into the hobby, it will continue to lose enthusiasts. The Polar Express movie probably extended the life of the hobby. I spoke with a 16yo model train enthusiast, and he is spending much more time playing Dungeons and Dragons. Electronics provides fierce competition for the attention of all of us, and younger folks are already fluent. I feel this problem will only get worse.
I was equally excited and concerned about the satellite shows. I did not go to them, but from a vendor's perspective, the bandit shows, are just that- Bandits. They are diverting dollars and customers from the main event. In our capitalistic economy, it is every seller for themselves. That's the American way. I guess it's incumbent on business owners to protect their market. But you cannot have it both ways. If you want to attend a successful show and see successful vendors, it requires your support in dollars.
A positive result of attending York for me was learning exactly where I want to spend my time and dollars. I have narrowed my interest, and look forward to enjoying my completed layout.
jdaddy, where are you going to get all the people to do all the things you are suggesting?
eddie g posted:jdaddy, where are you going to get all the people to do all the things you are suggesting?
And the money! Most of those things aren't free. I can see points in #1, 5, 6, and 11 upon cursory review.
Unfortunately #11 happens because of the catch 22 of lower attendance leading to table holders bailing early because of the lower attendance and people who do show up seeing the covered tables as a "why bother if the tables will be covered", hence lowering attendance even more. If there was enough interest that there was a waiting list for tables, it would be realistic to discipline people who leave early as stated in the meet flyer. Problem is, ther eis no one waiting in the wings to take the table space at this point.
#7 is a point of attracting visitors, i.e., "Come see us at York for new announcements" (don't see how announcing them before could improve attendance?).
#10 - That is something people who have an interest have done for years, mostly outside of meet hours, I suspect. The closest store recently closed just a few blocks away on Market Street.
Many of the other things would divert people AWAY from the meet (sorry no one is here on Saturday because they went to Everett Railroad for a 3 hour excursion instead?). As to a raffle, there is already a door prize done, though I admit I'm not sure I saw the winner lists posted in all the halls like it used to be. I did check the list when I visited the Silver hall, it was just between the Convention Table and the Registration counters.
There are plenty of events throughout the week, many conflicting with Bandit meets. I've only visited Bandit meets once or twice in 21 years, but I've been visiting the Museum area and Strasburg RR for probably close to 17 years.
With respect to Strasburg activities, they run their normal tours, and on Wednesday they ran a special shuttle (train you can't ride on except on Wednesday of York week) on the tracks to get people form the Choo Choo Barn to the Strasburg Station to the Red Caboose Motel (free!). That was new last October (though not the train they had originally intended in October due to a problem discovered before the event - it was still cool!) and was repeated this meet (I think with the same motive power they had planned last October, bu tI may be mistaken - didn't cross-check th eold meet flyers). Can't beat that as something new and different to attract people.
Good replies and yes they are ideas.
You don't make changes w/o making waves.
Eddie you hire them! Or have volunteers like most of the railroad attractions and layouts have.
And the money ... you raise it.
I can explain more on the above ideas, however it would take a few pages of this forum to fully explain. Plus bore everyone out of their mind... my point is there are many ways to get the public there. And it always will take time and money and a few volunteers.
Our fire department makes money on our Pancake Breakfast so can the TCA
Why doesn't the Strasburg and the surrounding attractions extend hours that week so the public can attend is beyond me.
If you are planning to attend over night like many of us, you tend to plan more than one attraction, so a trip to Everett, or Hershey, or Strasburg is NOT a diversion from the meet, you are actually drawing families in.
I have been there 5 years and have never even heard of the raffle... was it really worth buying tickets for and waiting to see who won? I mean it has to be a prize worth winning. Not just a T shirt.
J Daddy posted:I have been there 5 years and have never even heard of the raffle... was it really worth buying tickets for and waiting to see who won? I mean it has to be a prize worth winning. Not just a T shirt.
Not a raffle. A door prize. You bought your chance by registering in advance, i.e. it's free if you signed up to pay your admission before the early registration deadline.
The prizes are donated by dealers generally, I believe. Sometimes it's freight cars, some small artwork, detail items, etc. It's not Legacy or DCS equipped engines (nor should it be). I didn't look at what was on the prize table too closely, as I did not win. There is no waiting, the list is posted from the time the meet opens until the close, and you can stop by and pick up your winnings at any time if you did win.
So yeah, since it's 100% free for anyone who registers in advance, I'd say it's "worth it" no matter what to check to see if you won.
Here's an idea I had this morning: At all train shows and meets I have ever attended, there have been tables with flyers for other train shows and attractions for people to pick up. If the EDTCA could put together a flyer promoting York (it wouldn't have to be date-specific as long as they have their web site listed for interested people to go to for more info) and make it downloadable from their web site as a PDF, then other nearby TCA chapters and clubs like mine could print them out and put them out on the tables of the shows we attend or sponsor, and train shops that sell at York could post copies at their stores. Again, it would have to be short and to the point as to what York is and what it has to offer, but it would be very low-cost targeted advertising. And if it were laid out 4 per page (each page cut into 4 flyers), it would be even more economical. The only real work the EDTCA would have to do is design the flyer, convert it to a PDF, upload it and let members know where to find it.
Andy
See and that's the thing We have to take the Ho Hum out of it... If it was a Legacy K4 with a long haul tender, tickets were 10 bucks a piece and numbers where called out over the P.A.... now we're talking!
If you look at the York meet it is simple in my mind what is happening. The collecting segment of the hobby is what has been contracting, just like the meet. If the Eastern Division continues to ignore the operators with lack of content for the operator, then the meet will continue to contract. The meet needs seminars, demonstrations and more content from the manufacturers and vendors geared towards the hobbyists that are operating and building layouts.
There should be meeting areas for the manufacturers and vendors to talk about their product and what is new. Likewise hobbyists that are at the top of their game should be asked to share some of their talents in a talk or demonstration. All of these could be posted in a schedule so members could attend the topics meaningful to them.
For those that like the meet just like it is, let me say this. I'd like to see the meet around in another 10 years. You have to think bigger than yourself.
While the meet was not well attended this April I would simply offer that the registration issues and the crazy weather contributed to attendance also and were both an anomaly. Yes, attendance is falling and has been for years as the membership declines, but this April was just an unusual combination of events. April is not as well attended as October to start historically.
With very little physical product to show in the Orange Hall, it was a very productive meet for 3rd Rail whose hat I wear at York in April.
My suggestion? More promotion for non-member opportunities to attend. To generate membership, you have to actively promote anything the public can participate in. TCA is changing and in many ways for the better. We need to do a better job to promote that.
I hope this doesn't sound like a rant or a rehash of the same old same old , However I feel I have sit back long enough silent , so its time to put in my two cents worth before fading into the sunset.
I would like to start by saying I did read and I do understand the title of this thread I also know that York is not the only focus of the TCA nor is it its only function. However it seems publicly it is the tail that wags the dog.
For years I watched as TCA business was debated publicly by members and non members alike in this forum as well as others, a lot of it surrounding a call to meet the demands of the non dues paying public as well as cure the TCAs financial woes and bolster the decreasing membership size by opening the York event to non members and select manufactures.
However it seams all may not be well, and a call for more is herd , the manufactures want this or they pull out as well as we supported the call from the non dues paying public but alas they want more . Huh imagine that , sounds like another entitlement situation or at least ill take my trains and go home.
Ok I agree as other people are important and we do need to do what we can to make the hobby grow however , think of this.
For thirty five years plus I was a dues paying member , Yes I had been to York , yes I had other benefits. but when I had trouble with the internet site I called the office for help . I got none , I sent a letter asking for help I got none , nothing not even a return Im sorry. I went to the closest TCA meet and paid my fee for myself and family to attend and right inside the door was a dealer I personalty know who is not a TCA member with a table of wares to sell , after asking why, I was told it was good for business as there really wasnt enough members to make it worth while.
. So I decided maybe it was time to take a break, instead of paying my dues I wrote a letter that was June 2017 , still no answer, not even a past due notice.
Why say something now you ask ? Well I still miss being a member , of being a part of something I believe in , I miss seeing old friends and just the fun.
Maybe instead of trying to add another room its time to take a look at the foundation and make sure all is well , maybe we should go back and listen to the people paying there dues and not the general public first. but what do I know I still think I may some day get that letter offering help or a past due notice,. Gary NQDY
eddie g posted:Superwarp, i don't agree with you that it is dying. maybe you need to go back to York. All that has been eliminated is the brown & gold halls.
That's called DENIAL
MichRR714 posted:If you look at the York meet it is simple in my mind what is happening. The collecting segment of the hobby is what has been contracting, just like the meet. If the Eastern Division continues to ignore the operators with lack of content for the operator, then the meet will continue to contract. The meet needs seminars, demonstrations and more content from the manufacturers and vendors geared towards the hobbyists that are operating and building layouts.
There should be meeting areas for the manufacturers and vendors to talk about their product and what is new. Likewise hobbyists that are at the top of their game should be asked to share some of their talents in a talk or demonstration. All of these could be posted in a schedule so members could attend the topics meaningful to them.
For those that like the meet just like it is, let me say this. I'd like to see the meet around in another 10 years. You have to think bigger than yourself.
Lots of great posts here with some valuable suggestions and ideas but this one gets a big +1.
J Daddy posted:
11) stop the early covering of tables before the show ends
How about the tables that are covered at the opening, and remain covered for an hour?
unclelouiesboy posted:I also know that York is not the only focus of the TCA nor is it its only function. However it seems publicly it is the tail that wags the dog.
However it seams all may not be well, and a call for more is herd
Actually, the TCA has nothing to do with York. It is created and run by the Eastern Division. Most Divisions run local meets, however, York is much, much larger.
As to your second point: what does sewing have to do with cattle?
Joe Hohmann posted:unclelouiesboy posted:I also know that York is not the only focus of the TCA nor is it its only function. However it seems publicly it is the tail that wags the dog.
However it seams all may not be well, and a call for more is herd
Actually, the TCA has nothing to do with York. It is created and run by the Eastern Division. Most Divisions run local meets, however, York is much, much larger.
As to your second point: what does sewing have to do with cattle?
I guess this is what I should have expected, Im sorry my grammar and choice of words were not correct. I regret trying to bring something to the forefront that may make a difference to things or others as I know it did to me . But I can see were it would be eraser to correct the individual than to listen . Thanks for pointing that out . Gary NQDY
To reply to the Original Question:
1) Promote it to whom? Joe SixPack? Single Mom with 3 kids? Railfan? HO modeler? TCA member? Non-TCA member? New Zealand Operator of Hornby Windup? 2-Rail O-Scaler? OGR Forum Denizen? Young Father looking for a Polar Express? [Insert Name of Manufacturer Here] Groupie? [Insert Name of Manufacturer Here] Detractor? Retiree looking for a hobby?
This questions is tied up with:
2) Promote it as what? Trade Show? Swap Meet for TCA Members? Swap Meet for any Model Rail? Introduction to the Hobby for the General Public? Modeling Convention? Display Layout Venue? Lure for Rails in other Scales to come to the Dark Side? Flea Market? PreFab Retail Mall? Social Gathering? Fund Raiser? Vacation Hotspot? Exchange of Collector Information? Meet-and-Greet for Manufacturers and Retailers? Free-Speech Forum? A Hobby looking for retirees?
I am an outsider, but I can see that EVERY discussion of this or related subject I have ever read on the matter for more than 30 years has foundered on these two questions.
I truly wish the ED the best in this, but, as my boss repeatedly intones, Success is mostly Management of Expectations.
I have been a TCA member for 40 years and been to York about 73 times. When I first attended it was a collectors meet and now has evolved, in my opinion, to an operators meet. With that being said I think the emphasis should be on the latest trends and electronic equipment and the scenic and innovative techniques now available to members. Young folks are all over electronic equipment but we need to let them know what is available for this fantastic hobby of running model railroads. There is still room for the pre and post war and MPC collectors but new blood needs to be made aware of all the newest things. Major manufacturers should have a great display and samples of what is now available and what is coming down the pike. It should be akin to the Car Shows of old where people wanted to see what is new. Advertise in magazines what displays will be there and layout building techniques. It is a great hobby and we want to share with the future operators.
This past week I had the best sales ever. Last show and this show I did very well on Saturday in fact in October I did better on Saturday than I did on Thursday. If it were my choice I would run the show Friday, Saturday and Sunday to get greater attendance. Every show and festival in the Country runs Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
This York was the best ever for me, I plan to meet folks and exchange trains, but most of all because of all the friends I've made over the years. Some are attached with different groups that I've joined (SGMA for example, OGR forum, the modern std gauge crowd, and a bunch of build it yourselfers). If those folks start to bail, I may too. It was super enjoyable meeting with friends old and new.
Points made that are worth amplifying:
Know your target audience and change up the meet to fit (how to seminars would be great, demonstrations, builders), forums, things that would attract younger families (Thomas is big), train races like at Allentown (the last show up there was PACKED!), do more of what Amherst does. Give stuff away. More operating layouts throughout each hall (getting there with White, but if non-TCA'rs can only go to Dealer Halls, that doesn't work completely). Create an atmosphere of , do I say it? FUN!. I have grandkids now, they wouldn't last at York meet.
Really like the idea of setting up a rideable train outside of the halls (weather permitting, would have been really tough on Thursday).
Jim
Another thought about something that needs improvement in order to keep people coming (and spending) - NEW PRODUCT.
One major video producer had only one new video, and had minimal other stock. Another video producer (along with other media) no longer had their own booth, and I didn't notice any videos (new or otherwise) or other new product in the space they were sharing. No new standard gauge from MTH. And on and on.
It's a catch-22 - hard to justify new product when there's so much of the old to sell, but lack of new product won't stimulate any interest.
Putnam Division posted:I am sad when I hear all the dire predictions about the future of York. Let’s be constructive. What can all of us do to promote York? I was able to stay till Saturday (I usually do that in the Spring) and I went to the Eastern Division business meeting. The Eastern Division leadership is aware of the issues and I’m sure they would like to hear about good ideas to promote the show. Money is always a problem....which is no surprise.....heck, when was the last time you got a break at the grocery store?
Let’s have constructive ideas.......what would you do to promote York?
Peter
TCA 83-19115.......missed York twice since my 1st one in April 83......October 85 and October 89.
Peter, please see my separate post here on the "York Forum" about Orange and Purple Hall merchants packing up too early on Saturday. This is something that must be done to IMPROVE York. It pi--ed me off... and I am sure others are unhappy about this also. I knew it was a problem before, but thought it had been dealt with. If I were one of the "general public" members who paid to attend on Saturday (and whom we are trying to ATTRACT), I would find this a huge turn-off. As a paid TCA member, I know, I certainly do.
Joe Hohmann posted:J Daddy posted:
11) stop the early covering of tables before the show ends
How about the tables that are covered at the opening, and remain covered for an hour?
I agree Joe. This late opening- early packing up silliness must stop!
It seems to me that York is a "destination" show. In other words, it appears to me that most attendees live more than 100 miles from York. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Therefore, I don't see advertising as the show's major problem. Rather I see the problem as being that the show's sponsor really needs to have something special to entice people to travel long distances to attend the show. Travel is expensive and takes time. I am at a lost to describe an activity or event that is special to York that will continually lure people to the show. I know that many people on this forum attend the show every year but many folks, including me, can't afford the time and money to do that. I live in CA and have never been to York but I do intend to get there someday.
Perhaps the show's sponsors should consider rotating the show through major metropolitan areas within the Eastern Division - Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc., and then back to York. This may make the show easier to access for different groups and vendors. It would also offer attendees changing activities and things to do at each site. It would be more difficult to organize a rotating show but it might be worth the effort.
NH Joe
York Meet needs more members like the Muffins. I don't hear them complaining too much, except perhaps about how busy they are.
Allan Miller posted:eddie g posted:I believe that most or all the people that read OGR & CTT know about York.
I believe Eddie is probably right about that...especially for subscribers and regular readers. The York Meet has been covered in my column several times in the past 10 years, and it is often mentioned in feature articles.
Very true, very little outside (and inside) the lines promotion. Take note that the Eastern Division did very little posting on ALL their online websites, including facebook, Twitter and Instagram about the upcoming April 2018 York Meet. Not much activity or posting between Oct 2017 and April 2018. IIRC, there was no major regional newspaper (Harrisburg Patriot, Philadelphia Inquirer, Baltimore Sun) or television advertising.
https://www.facebook.com/YorkTrainShow/
https://twitter.com/yorktrainshow
https://www.instagram.com/yorktrainshow/
Even the EDiv's website wasn't completely updated with current April 2018 info. (Dealer hall charts weren't updated from Oct '17 to Apr '18 until after this meet ended.
For so many years the lack of pictures and detailed info to explain what The York Meet had to offer to those on the fringe or outside of the O gauge hobby was a critical mistake especially in the can't get enough mid to late 1990's IMO. You likely knew about the meet if you or a close family member was a TCA member or were readers of OGR and CTT, but that's preaching to the shrinking choir.
The York Meet is obviously a very expensive meet/show to produce and as others mentioned or hinted, might need to shrink to a once a year (Fall) and/or 2 day event. Possibly accept the idea with the related financial impact (pos & neg) and reduced status that the meet might revert back to its older self of mainly a few member trading halls or one large Orange member trading hall.
So to answer this thread's topic as to what can be done to better promote York - 1) Promote the meet to the general public. 2) EDiv mgmt needs to immediately meet to discuss the financial results, table rentals, registrations sold (not badges issued) and attendees input from the April meet and then obtain future cost quotes from the York Fairgrounds. Based on much of the April results, the EDiv should strongly and honestly consider their volunteer commitment and mission as to what they can effectively carry out and for how long.
The old "that's how we always did it" answer no longer can hold the amount of water necessary to run the meet in the form it has run over the past 20 years.
My age is 30 years old, so I guess that would make me a part of the "younger generation" group. I am of course an avid O gauge modeler. I can think of 5 or 6 people I personally know that are around my age and are involved with model trains, but they all model HO scale. Many of them feel O gauge is just too expensive, which I can understand. That being said, I'm not so sure this hobby is dying, I think the real problem may be there are not many young people taking the plunge into O scale.
My suggestion is to to invite more HO/N scale dealers and even manufactures to the York show. If we are trying to a attract a younger crowd, I think it would be prudent to try and offer more of other scales that typically have a large following from the younger generation. I know the York show has always been a collector show with an emphasis on O and S gauge, but maybe its time to put a larger emphasis on other scales.
Maybe hold a York type show in N.Y.C. I am also new to the hobby & don`t want to drive 3 hours- If they would do the same type show in the Javits convention center I`m shure more people would show up & get interested...Also when was the last time anyone saw a television commercial? -You would think Lionel, MTH, & other O guage manufacturers would run a spot pre holiday season- It`s also up to everyone in the hobby to FREE advertise by putting trainsets up in shop windows, banks, & malls like they used to when they were younger- Then you may see more interest in the hobby by all age groups & have better sales! ( Try it & post your responces on the forum)
Some interesting suggestions in this thread. I'm not against most of them, but as with most suggestions about anything, the suggestions have to go to the people who have the ability to make the changes. Responding directly to the Eastern Division Board of Directors is the best shot at making any changes. Writing about it here gets nothing done. Don't think they'll listen? That will be on them, we can only try.
Other than Peter, were there any others here who attended the York Meet that have issues with it attend the Eastern Division Members meeting on Saturday morning? That would have been the best place to start with grievances.
As with any suggestions of change, remember that those who organize and operate the York Meet are volunteers who donate their time to produce a great toy train event. They are not paid to do this. Anyone want to devote some time to advertise, set up a train ride for kids, organize outside groups to attend, etc.? The members could care less, they just want a venue to buy, trade and sell their trains. It wasn't created to entertain the masses or vendors or importers. It's not meant to get more people involved with trains. The Worlds Greatest Hobby Shows does that. The York Meet is the result of what the WGH shows do.
Sure there are things that can be done to attract more members and even the non-members. But it takes the will to do it and the volunteers to make it happen.
I have an idea that could possibly bring in hundreds if not thousands more attendees. All those people who whined and cried about the two signature sponsor rule, or the no cell phone rule or the no camera rules the York Meet had and said they'd only attend if they were eliminated. Well, they were eliminated. Where are those people??
Contrary to popular belief, Lionel, MTH, OGR, local train clubs, and other vendors do promote the York meet. They use social media to announce they are attending and announce the public times.
Advertising a local level will help but the average family or casual model RR will not travel much further than an hour to attend. Let's face it York isn't near a major population hub. I would hope though that through LHS the EDTCA could send an email flyer that could be on the counter for those who don't know about it. Then again do some shops dislike York week due to loss of business?
While I am all for trying to draw more attendees, some of the ideas take time, money, and people to implement. As Brian stated they are volunteers and I'm sure this takes a lot of time. Money well we all want more of that. People. I suspect many suggesting more of these ideas that take people's time and effort wouldn't help if asked.
Back to the original question of promotion. Again a simple email blast to LHS with a flyer attached. A little more local advertising in the immediate area. Leverage your vendors a bit more if possible. Leverage the TCA membership. While it is an EDTCA event, the entire TCA membership does attend so use them. I do like the ideas of some workshops. If you can convince enough of the vendors to do an hour seminar like the DCS ones you could probably get about a days worth spread out over the event. Some of the ideas take very little to implement so maybe worth the try.
I always talk of York at the LHS. I explain what it's all about. Word of mouth is the best advertising. I guess the bottom line is that I don't think we have all the answers. Certainly those who all they do is trash talk, discourage, and put down the meet are not helping at all. The EDTCA has made quite a few changes in the last 5 years that we thought we'd never see. They are trying. Some vendors will stomp their feet and go away. Some will use this as a chance to do better.
