What Vision Line Engine Would You Like To Be Offered Next??

@c.sam posted:

Seems we've got more than a few votes for the PRR T1. I like the removable skirting idea!

Keep in mind there were two basic versions of the T1, the 2 prototypes built in 1942 and the 50 production models built 1945-46.  I don't think Lionel would build both versions, so I think we need to narrow down to the one most folks will buy.

The two prototypes are the ones with the long nose and skirting.  MTH made a gazillion of the as-built prototype T1s.  This version lasted from 1942 to maybe late 1943, when the skirting was removed from both for better maintenance.  Both were gone by 1950.  My thoughts are if you want this version (long nose and skirting) in TMCC, buy the MTH model real cheap and upgrade it with ERR.  I am not sure it would be worth while to make this version with removable skirting, but if there is enough demand who knows.

The 50 production models had a short nose, no skirting, and most had the portholes over the pilot when built.  The last several built in 1946 did not have the portholes to make it easier for maintenance.  The engines with the portholes were modified to without portholes over 2-3 years, and by late 1948 all T1s were without portholes (I think).  This is the scale version Lionel built in 2000.  These T1s were gone by 1952.

As I mentioned above, I think Lionel could make the production model with and without portholes, and there would be enough buyers to support the run.

@CAPPilot posted:

FYI - The T1 Trust is building a version that looks like Lionel's scale model.

Not to be a pedant, but the T1 Trust looks to be doing the version with most skirting removed, but still has the three portholes on the front near the pilot/lead truck.  Lionel's previous models were fully de-skirted.

Personally I would want to see a PRR T1 next. We need a newly tooled VL engine

T1 with matching passenger cars & VL BM70M head end cars (the long nose version with removable skirts posted above is a great idea!) maybe as a brass hybrid.... hhmmm

@rplst8 posted:

Not to be a pedant, but the T1 Trust looks to be doing the version with most skirting removed, but still has the three portholes on the front near the pilot/lead truck.  Lionel's previous models were fully de-skirted.

If you are thinking of the T1 Trust's logo, which was done a long time ago, it is of the version with the portholes.  However, the latest engineering drawings on their web site, as well as the drawings shown at the T1 Trust Open House in Mar 2020, show the version without the portholes.  While I have not seen specific discussion on the pilot, as a Founders Club member the data I have seen all point to no porthole.  Next time I go to a meeting I'll clarify.

@CAPPilot posted:

If you are thinking of the T1 Trust's logo, which was done a long time ago, it is of the version with the portholes.  However, the latest engineering drawings on their web site, as well as the drawings shown at the T1 Trust Open House in Mar 2020, show the version without the portholes.  While I have not seen specific discussion on the pilot, as a Founders Club member the data I have seen all point to no porthole.  Next time I go to a meeting I'll clarify.

Right you are, I stand corrected!  I never noticed the drawings were different until now.  I was probably distracted by all the excitement of eventually seeing this thing whoop the Brit’s Mallard!

Not that Lionel's Vision Line is completely affordable for me (as of yet!), but I wouldn't mind seeing something more 'generic' from the very early 1900s.  Not famous steam engines or their repaints, not 'heralding back' to the wild west, not any special classes well known among modelers (such as moguls), and nothing extremely specific to any one roadname. 

You know the kind: small but not minimalistic, powerful enough to pull a few stock cars but maybe happier working a municipal spur, boiler lower and almost just above the cowcatcher, smokestack tall and straight but not too thin or thick, no extreme boiler 'camel hump' (unknown proper terminology) around the cab, probably still a wooden cab though without any 'artistic painted flair'....

Something that you could see working a shortline under a unique name in an era with more roadnames than you could shake a stick at.  Give the option for painted, but with blank tender (we can add our own decals later).  Jet black smokebox and ever so lighter for the boiler.  A locomotive for a hard days work, where an engineer will find fond attachment in their locomotive's quirks/personality rather than specific engine-class, Horsepower, or cargo.

A 'later' generic example might be a '2-6-2 "Prairie" Locomotive' such as:       http://ibls.org/mediawiki/inde...rie_Steam_Locomotive

Or one of these little 4-6-0 numbers:         https://hermis.alberta.ca/paa/...&ObjectID=A15485

For those who have not figured it out yet, the only VL model of a T1 I will buy is of the late production version (no portholes), which I believe is the same version as the T1 Trust engine.  That version can be run on transition era layouts as well as modern layouts doing excursion runs if one model is numbered 5550.  It should have a wide audience.

And as I mentioned earlier, for those that want the long nose version there are plenty of MTH models out there to upgrade.

NOTE: Upon further thought, I could be persuaded to buy the prototype (long nose) but only if it comes WITHOUT skirting.  Not only would that fit into my late 40s era layout, but no one in O has made that version.

So I guess my T1 vote is for a skirt-less T1.

Sounds like there is a lot of interest in the T1.  Would it sell extremely well one catalog removed from the S1?  No clue, just asking.  

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, but I'm fairly certain I won't be alive to see that full sized T1 Duplex completed, so I'm hoping for a Lionel Vision Line version.

Hmm, looks like we're going to have to send John in for an overhaul to make sure he is around when the T1 Trust unveils that completely new engine. I think they have some little bits(big parts but not big big parts) done. I think that the news released in January had said that the frame would have to be pieces and not solid as no one does that(or is willing to for the price it would cost or they the Trust can't afford that).

The T1 with removable skirting is a great idea. Personally, I’d prefer an engine class that Lionel hasn’t done. Decapod or N1 ideally.

I‘d bite on a vision line Blue Comet also with new tooling.

Ultimately something that can be sold in multiple road names and/or variations will win. They need volume to drive the tooling and development.

@DylTrains posted:

Not that Lionel's Vision Line is completely affordable for me (as of yet!), but I wouldn't mind seeing something more 'generic' from the very early 1900s.
...

A 'later' generic example might be a '2-6-2 "Prairie" Locomotive' such as:       http://ibls.org/mediawiki/inde...rie_Steam_Locomotive
Or one of these little 4-6-0 numbers:         https://hermis.alberta.ca/paa/...&ObjectID=A15485

How about D&RGW #683 2-8-0 built in 1890 and is the only surviving standard gauge steam locomotive from that road.  It is a pretty generic looking Consolidation that imagine other roads would have used.

AT&SF #1108 or #1196, both 2-6-2 Prairie types, built in 1903 and 1902 respectively might fit the bill too.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Hmm, looks like we're going to have to send John in for an overhaul to make sure he is around when the T1 Trust unveils that completely new engine.

I think that would be a complete chassis replacement in my case.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

How about a VL Flying Scotsman or some more VL SF steam?

I appreciate the several references here to the Scotsman.  I know new tooling is a big investment but I want to encourage Lionel to think about more engines (and other materials) that are uncommon in O Gauge, especially in 3-rail O Gauge.  It's not very difficult to find a Challenger or a Big Boy offered by European model railroad companies - why can't the Americans have fun with some famous British or European trains visiting our layouts?

I'm a fan of the T-1 as well and I'd consider getting a Vision Line version (the biggest impediment would be if it needed O-72 curves, which I fear it probably would).  But I would be excited in a new way if Lionel did something that was unprecedented for their roster.

Maybe Lionel could manage the risk of expanding into new tooling by running a poll or asking for a soft (or hard?) commitment from enthusiasts to get some numbers on potential interest before they have to invest in the tooling or all of the design.  I wonder what the analysis looked like when they decided to do the Transcontinental 4-4-0 brass hybrids.  (Those were gorgeous models - I wish they'd had smoke units but to my eye they look better than Faberge eggs.)

@BC1989 posted:

I'm a fan of the T-1 as well and I'd consider getting a Vision Line version (the biggest impediment would be if it needed O-72 curves, which I fear it probably would).

Since the scale 6-28063 required O72, there's no reason to expect a Vision Line scale model would relax that requirement.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

How about a VL Flying Scotsman or some more VL SF steam?

I don’t even have any steam engines but I would absolutely buy a VL Scotsman.

A VL Flying Scotsman I would be in for as well. Heck, any of those delightful looking engines across the pond. The Scotsman would a a great one for sure.

On the T1, there is no way around the O72 curves since it would be scale. The Pennsy Duplex is a beast, and that barely would be comfortable doing O72(at least in the case of the MTH version per Eric's Trains), and I imagine the Legacy version will pretty much be in the same boat with that.

I can see a VISION Scotsman being made and being made in at least 4 variants from various stages of its life - as built, its British Rail look, its current look, and its modified look when it toured the USA in 1969-73. I'm sure there's more minor versions that could be done as well.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

A VL Flying Scotsman I would be in for as well. Heck, any of those delightful looking engines across the pond. The Scotsman would a a great one for sure.

On the T1, there is no way around the O72 curves since it would be scale. The Pennsy Duplex is a beast, and that barely would be comfortable doing O72(at least in the case of the MTH version per Eric's Trains), and I imagine the Legacy version will pretty much be in the same boat with that.

Lionel could do a Vision Line T1 5550 and a Vision Line Mallard and we could set them up for a model race down the mainline!

Thinking a bit more, T1 is my choice

@Mikado 4501 posted:

I can see a VISION Scotsman being made and being made in at least 4 variants from various stages of its life - as built, its British Rail look, its current look, and its modified look when it toured the USA in 1969-73. I'm sure there's more minor versions that could be done as well.

This would be awesome! Something different for sure

The Blue Comet and the 700e

Since my real first choice (a P&R 4-2-2) is probably out, how about Reading 178?

Probably not a contender to be made, but Baldwin 60000 would be cool to see. Since it was a essentially a  "demonstrator" locomotive, it could be offered in the lettering for each railroad it was tested on. While it was being tested on the SP, it was converted to fire on oil and was given a SP oil tender which could be an offered version.

Probably won't be made by Lionel or one of the other big manufacturers... I've seen a thread or two that mentions someone scratch build it in 17/64 scale but there has never been a hi-rail version.

Maybe this would be a project better suited for 3rd rail -  if they could get gather enough interest that is.

Pennsy Scale Turbine.  Use the same tooling as the previous versions but enhanced.  I would like to have this locomotive as all previous attempts have been jinxed.  The 1991 version gets a horrible paint rash.  The recent version arrived wet due to some issue with the styrofoam curing.   So perhaps the 3rd time will be the charm.  I am not aware of any other releases of these.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

Some ideas that I have: Siemens Charger; SD70ACe-T4; GEVO Hybrid remake with new liveries; Wabtec Battery-Electric Loco and BNSF ET44C4 Set (both powered units and a selection of modern freight cars, including a Vision Sound Car); Big Blow 3-Unit Gas Turbine; Erie and/or Virginian Triplex; Vision Ethanol Tank Cars; New Vision Modern Freight Cars

Some wise guys are selling the first run VL ethanol 3 car set gorgeous 799$'s on eBay. Go figure.

How about Blowdown Steam on these latest GS'4's with the Dynamo smoke?

I also second a VL 844 SP

@Walter Anderson posted:

Some wise guys are selling the first run VL ethanol 3 car set gorgeous 799$'s on eBay. Go figure.

Glad I got a couple sets of those when they were a lot cheaper!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd like to see a Vision Line PRR T1 Duplex.

I would as well BUT NOT  the two demonstrators ] MTH dominated that and

NOT THE ALTOONA VERSION [Lionel did that version in 2000- unless with different road# AND swinging bell and cylinder blowouts!]

So that just leaves the Baldwin production version with the 3 portholes in the front- again along with swinging bell and cylinder blowout.

I would also like the PRR K3 that 5 were also sold to the N&W.[it has that unique trailing truck]

And a 2-8-8-0 in PRR!

I would also take another round of the PRR 0-8-8-0  updated with swinging bell and steam cylinder blowout!

This is just my 2 cents!

PRR N1 or Q2 with all the steam effects.  

It will be interesting to see what Lionel offers as their next scale Vision Line engine.  From past releases, it seems they would most likely upgrade/ update one of their current engines.  A good choice would be their PRR T1.

But if they were to offer a new design, what would make sense?

I personally do not think they would build new tooling for an engine that has already been built by another manufacturer, unless only a few were made from, say, 3rd Rail.  Engines like the PRR Q2 and the as built PRR T1 prototype were produced in large numbers by MTH as well as other manufacturers.  Not sure Lionel would want to invest in new tooling for those or other models that had large production runs.

Engines produced in small numbers, like the PRR N1 or other 3rd Rail engines, might be a better option for new tooling.  But many of these small batch engines were specific to one road and I think Lionel would try to produce something that would have a wider customer base. (The N1 was specific to the PRR.)

To me, if Lionel were to invest in new tooling in the current market it would be an engine that has not been produced before (or in limited quantities) and would have a large customer base.  Many diesels fall into that category, but not that many steamers.  A steamer based on a USRA design might be a good choice.  One USRA design I have not seen much of is the heavy 2-10-2.  While it was initially purchased by only five railroads, it was sold/leased to others and would look good in some fantasy schemes.

If Lionel did the heavy 2-10-2's boiler in brass, they could do the two different versions the PRR had and increase their sales even more.

As Vicki said, my logic is undeniable.

I still think a WM Potomac would be great.  Never been done except in high-end 2-rail brass.  And someone mentioned another road that had a very similar look that might share a lot of parts that has also never been produced.

I could go for a WM Potomac, but wouldn’t hold my breath

If we get the VL Hudsons, what about a Brass Hybrid ATSF Blue Goose? That would be a nice engine. Plus, matching passenger cars could be made as well. Also, I'd like to see a non-streamlined ATSF Hudson, Milwaukee Road F7 Hudson, and maybe a few other liveries.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

If we get the VL Hudsons, what about a Brass Hybrid ATSF Blue Goose? That would be a nice engine. Plus, matching passenger cars could be made as well. Also, I'd like to see a non-streamlined ATSF Hudson, Milwaukee Road F7 Hudson, and maybe a few other liveries.

I’d love to see a Lionel blue goose. The mth versions can be hard to find. You’d think Lionel considered this tooling when they made their acquisition…

I would buy Flying Scotsman as well!

Operating VISION Rotary Snowplow, similar to OY on the Cumbres and Toltec (but standard gauge)?

Operating steam crane with tender and work caboose, similar to UP 9000 series derricks and cranes?

UP Centennial DD40X?

I saw the diecast ES44 at my friends house. It looked great. Another engine that I missed out on and would purchase.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...6123628306Hybrid.pdf

I like the idea of the UP centennial DD40x in a Vision line. That older centipede version scared me away from any 2 rail conversion!

It still feels like a Vision Dreyfuss makes a lot of sense.

I'm still holding out for a D&H Challenger. They were a good combination of great styling and brute power, not to mention versatility.  Check out a couple of videos and see if you agree.  Someone must have the old Weaver tooling.   

VL Triplex or Y6