Rule292 posted:SANTIAGOP23 posted:
I think the Krauss Maffeis would make great candidates for brass models. Between SP and RG modelers each getting two units or more a 150 unit run is not crazy thinking...plus they are awesome and unique!
Not my cup of tea but I'd venture to say these would be a great seller.
Unusual or unique things sell well in this hobby.
thats a nice option as well, i go for one or two A engines Rio Grande
Cor
moonlicht posted:Rule292 posted:SANTIAGOP23 posted:
Not my cup of tea but I'd venture to say these would be a great seller.
Unusual or unique things sell well in this hobby.
thats a nice option as well, i go for one or two A engines Rio Grande
Cor
Many years ago there was a great article on the KMs in Trains magazine I think it was. It was titled something like "When the Rio Grande went to Rochester". It described the KMs testing on the NYC.
They had a few teething problems and they had clearance issues in third rail territory. It mentioned maintenance requirements and the time required to stop and reverse directions as the biggest issues with the Voith transmissions.
Rule292 posted:moonlicht posted:Rule292 posted:SANTIAGOP23 posted:
Not my cup of tea but I'd venture to say these would be a great seller.
Unusual or unique things sell well in this hobby.
thats a nice option as well, i go for one or two A engines Rio Grande
Cor
Many years ago there was a great article on the KMs in Trains magazine I think it was. It was titled something like "When the Rio Grande went to Rochester". It described the KMs testing on the NYC.
They had a few teething problems and they had clearance issues in third rail territory. It mentioned maintenance requirements and the time required to stop and reverse directions as the biggest issues with the Voith transmissions.
found this web page, a lot off information about these magnificent engines
http://sp9010.ncry.org/index.htm
i hope somebody is going to produce them
Cor
I agree with the suggestions for a GP-7/9 series. I went through at least three imported brass models before I finally got an Oriental import that ran well. I also tried an Atlas GP, but it ran like a scalded rabbit. We really do need GPs that run as well as Scott's other diesels.
I'm in for the Krause Maffe I'm shure it would be a winner
Wes Morgenstern posted:I agree with the suggestions for a GP-7/9 series. I went through at least three imported brass models before I finally got an Oriental import that ran well. I also tried an Atlas GP, but it ran like a scalded rabbit. We really do need GPs that run as well as Scott's other diesels.
In 2-rail? Really? A friend has one that we have moving smoothly at ~.8 smph. And, that is with the original QSI Quantum decoder. The new ones coming have ESU Loksound, from which I expect even better motor control.
Anywho, my big prediction ... lol .... is for a 4 axle 1st generation diesel, with undecorated version options. I'll spring for two of these expensive engines. 
moonlicht posted:Rule292 posted:moonlicht posted:Rule292 posted:SANTIAGOP23 posted:
Not my cup of tea but I'd venture to say these would be a great seller.
Unusual or unique things sell well in this hobby.
thats a nice option as well, i go for one or two A engines Rio Grande
Cor
Many years ago there was a great article on the KMs in Trains magazine I think it was. It was titled something like "When the Rio Grande went to Rochester". It described the KMs testing on the NYC.
They had a few teething problems and they had clearance issues in third rail territory. It mentioned maintenance requirements and the time required to stop and reverse directions as the biggest issues with the Voith transmissions.
found this web page, a lot off information about these magnificent engines
http://sp9010.ncry.org/index.htm
i hope somebody is going to produce them
Cor
Marty - you forgot to press the "reply with quote" button.
I would be quite interested in a KM-4000, especially the DR&G version. However, how would Sunset or any other manufacturer approach the sound set, i.e. the Maybach V16 diesel and Voith transmission? Has it been done in other scales?
did a search, looks like the german V-160 had the same engine as the ML-4000, also with a hydraulic voith system
ESU has this sound in its libery, looks to me that it is a posibility for a sound decoder
Cor
Any one know when this new diesel will be announced? I feel a little stressed waiting and wondering how much longer can this go on?
Bruk posted:GenesisFan99 posted:Bruk posted:I've been waiting for someone to do an U50 not a U50c in O scale. Its just a Veranda Turbine frame and trucks with a different shell.
Doing a sound set for that would probably be a different story.
It has dual FDL-16's. I don't see how that could be an issue, it would just have two start up sounds laid over each other. But I would just rip out the TMCC and add DCC with either ESU or Soundtracks decoders. If MTH did it I would leave it alone...if they did it right on the sound.
Well in that case, then it wouldn't be an issue however depending on the horn and bell that could be a bit harder for sound techs to find.
Only 23 built......this would be perfect
I need a GP40-2 diesel-electric locomotive in the 1980's Grand Trunk Western scheme and the DTI road number. 
Andrew
1950 or 1990 ..... eastern roads or western roads .... 2-axle trucks or 3-axle trucks ..... zebra stripes or tiger stripes or toothpaste stripes, or even basic blue ..... everybody loves the ornery looking and sounding RS-3/5's. They'd sell like hotcakes. 
Come on, Jonathan!! Before I have to commit my funds elsewhere.
For me it would have to be a set of GE EVOs ES 40-44 series or newer Gevos to invest in Scotts product, these started in 2002-2003 so most RRs have them either new or second hand,as a long time 2 railer MTHs models don't cut it for me although they look impressive sitting in my dealers showcase [Just Trains]. JMO
I'd be very interested in some nicely-detailed Amtrak equipment. Superliners would sell like hotcakes because we all know that K Line cars are impossible to find and Lionel cars aren't long enough.
All these other ideas are cool though. Krauss-Maffei seems like an interesting idea.
GenesisFan99 posted:I'd be very interested in some nicely-detailed Amtrak equipment. Superliners would sell like hotcakes because we all know that K Line cars are impossible to find and Lionel cars aren't long enough.
All these other ideas are cool though. Krauss-Maffei seems like an interesting idea.
It does seem like the biggest or the oddest seem to sell well. Lots of Big Boys, Cab Forwards and H8's and only a handful of small steam. Things like the PRR mikados were slow sellers and even the GPM ten wheelers, which are state of the art, really don't command premium prices.
F and E units seem to buck this trend, maybe because the streamliner is the archetypal diesel. Hard not to like warbonnets and just about everything looks good on an E or F unit.
it segues into one of my pet peeves in that we ought to have the common things done in perfection first before we buy the oddballs. But then again what fun would model railroading be if it weren't for the fun things instead of the mundane.
The KM surely takes the cake here and it might even have some global appeal if the German version could be made alongside the US version.
Yep, no love for the grunt on the RR, the SD40-2 or their "modern" GE counterpart ESs. Think Rodney and "I can't get no respect".
If you believe something will sell well you are encouraged to contact Scott and sponsor the run. He is constantly asking people in several venues how many they will reserve if he makes X. So far the most successful in that attempt was the SD40-2 and it is obvious all of those "you'll sell all you make" people are wrong. Just plain flat wrong. You are especially wrong with regards to Amtrak. When he does Amtrak of anything reservations and sales are less than 5%, much less actually, of the total. And I know because I have sponsored some Amtrak and have a hard time selling them. He still has 2 Amtrak 3-rail E8s, as of a week or so ago, that the reserver backed out of and have had no takers in months.
And for those that complain " I don't buy the cars because there is no locomotive" or "I don't buy the locomotive because there are no cars" they are also the biggest complainers if he makes a set with both because that costs too much. The ToT and the Rockets seem to be in a sweet spot because there are only 4 cars.
So while I find it frustrating that the market for "modern" stuff is so small, I am able to limit my spending because of it and I have zero interest in old Alcos or KMs if they are made.
Rule292 posted:GenesisFan99 posted:
All these other ideas are cool though. Krauss-Maffei seems like an interesting idea.
The KM surely takes the cake here and it might even have some global appeal if the German version could be made alongside the US version.
I don't think there was a German equivalent to the KM ML 4000's.
German domestic diesel hydraulics were compact things on B-B trucks similar to this:
Rusty
Bear in mind until Scott actually posts a model for reservation this is all speculation on our part as to sufficient reservations being made for the model he selects, based on the posts and Scotts comments nothing noteworthy has come to mind yet, so whatever model is selected he should have several backup models available to post in case the first selection does not work out,just saying!
SPSF posted:Only 23 built......this would be perfect
GP40X? But some roads got them with special trucks. And the four SP units got "elephant ears" for the radiators.
EBT Jim posted:1950 or 1990 ..... eastern roads or western roads .... 2-axle trucks or 3-axle trucks ..... zebra stripes or tiger stripes or toothpaste stripes, or even basic blue ..... everybody loves the ornery looking and sounding RS-3/5's. They'd sell like hotcakes.
Come on, Jonathan!! Before I have to commit my funds elsewhere.
These are a good indicator of one of the problems with O scale.
Folks are content with the really bad renditions from Atlas (and RTR Weaver) so we will seemingly never get ones that are 21st century in accuracy.
Can't blame manufacturers for not making it if we aren't buying it.
I curse my desire for all things Seaboard Air Line. Everything they seemed to have was the oddball.
I would love to see an ALCO RSC3:
These became Seaboard Coast Line Engines:
I think the Soo Line was the only other US RR to own them, but a few foreign RRs owned them too.
The 3-axle trucks are cool, the body looks just like the RS2 and RS3, but nobody to my knowledge has ever done a RSC 2 or 3.
That's why I would love to see a Milwaukee SDL39. Only been done in HO by Overland. PLEASE!
Dick
RDUNNlll,
First, I have a confession to make to the forum. Yes, I am an Amtrak Modeler. I know, I know...I am in therapy...perhaps one day......... All kidding aside, I find I'm in agreement with you, not only about the SD40-2 as built, but Amtrak as well.
I would wager that there aren't a lot of Amtrak modelers in O Scale, despite the absence of product on the secondary markets. While I still think that the best service was in the early days of the company, truth is, all the inherited equipment from the member railroads was just a stop gap until the new cars and locomotives came on line. I could be dead wrong about this, but I don't think there are a lot of people modeling early Amtrak in numbers that make it economically viable for the importers. Ah, yes, people will point to the Atlas CZ cars, but remember, the CZ cars were just some of the many different car prototypes picked up by Amtrak, and added to O Scale by Atlas to bolster sales toward the end of their first run of CZ.
What about current Amtrak prototypes? Well, maybe, but cost (I really hate to admit this) is a huge factor. Add up the cost of 7-9 Overland SuperLiner l and ll Cars (the only correct models of the prototypes), along with 3-4 of the OMI MHCs, and 1-2 Heritage baggage cars where ever you can find the prototype (you will have to paint it), then add in 2-3 Overland P-42s or 3-4 F40PHs (pick your phase) to drag it, and you are looking at some pretty hefty denari, my friends. The cost alone keeps most people from owning them or expanding what they have. The additional Gunderson 60ft Merchandise Express Cars, used a decade ago, have never been produced by anyone.
So, could Sunset produce current prototype Amtrak of reasonable quality and accuracy that would turn the heads of the O Scale/O Gauge market and still turn a dime? I don't know, maybe, but I would think firm reservations would have to be legion for Scott to risk it. That's just my humble opinion and no more. Remember, I'm in therapy..........
On thing I will say with certainty: I think the AMD103s and P40/42s are ugly as sin! I would like nothing more than to replace them with FP45s and FP40Fs. Now those were passenger engines with charaacter! Although, if Amtrak West does go to a private vendor(s) as is occasionally hinted about, I expect that the routes will disappear faster than fresh horse meat dumped into a pond of ravenous piranhas, in which case, like the SD40-2s, Amtrak will have appeared and disappeared in my life time and I will move on to other modeling interests, like maybe a private company train. Just sayin'.........
This has been a great thread. I can tell you that I've been chatting briefly with Scott and he has read this thread thoroughly. He's busy at the factory now, but he's reading and listening to your input.
There are several interesting ideas in here. As always, it just takes your orders to make any of this happen.
Golden Gate Depot (GGD) already has my reservation for Amtrak passenger cars. Seems to me that a model of the Amtrak-Siemens ACS-64 Cities Sprinter would generate a sufficient number of orders not only from previous Sunset/3rd Rail customers, but also from the wider O-gauge community. I would order a couple - and some extra passenger cars too. Why has no O-gauge/scale manufacturer yet offered an ACS-64 electric?
MELGAR
As best I can tell, this forum is the most active O Scale forum. So why not simply list these options and tabulate? That would surely be a better indication of actual desire than simply repeating each others' posts?
MELGAR posted:Golden Gate Depot (GGD) already has my reservation for Amtrak passenger cars. Seems to me that a model of the Amtrak-Siemens ACS-64 Cities Sprinter would generate a sufficient number of orders not only from previous Sunset/3rd Rail customers, but also from the wider O-gauge community. I would order a couple - and some extra passenger cars too. Why has no O-gauge/scale manufacturer yet offered an ACS-64 electric?
MELGAR
They would probably have to work with Siemens to get the tooling and it would have to be licensed by Amtrak.
GenesisFan99 posted:They would probably have to work with Siemens to get the tooling and it would have to be licensed by Amtrak.
Licensing by Amtrak will possibly be required as anything with the current Amtrak logo is of interest to Amtrak. Bachmann is doing the ACS-64 in HO and H, but it doesn't appear that they will do it in O. As for tooling, we just need good quality photographs some key dimensions. The factory creates a 3D model in CAD that is reviewed for accuracy. If FP45s and SDP40Fs aren't hitting the 500-750 unit threshold, I have a hard time seeing this project do that. It could possibly fly as a brass project.
Superliners are a good idea but prices are getting close to $300 a car for Aluminum. It does allow for another run of El Capitan cars as perhaps individual cars for the Phase II and Phase III and Coast Starlight modeler.
Besides the P42's we are getting the new Siemens Charger units on the Lincoln Service trains through town.
GG1 4877 posted:GenesisFan99 posted:They would probably have to work with Siemens to get the tooling and it would have to be licensed by Amtrak.
Licensing by Amtrak will possibly be required as anything with the current Amtrak logo is of interest to Amtrak. Bachmann is doing the ACS-64 in HO and H, but it doesn't appear that they will do it in O. As for tooling, we just need good quality photographs some key dimensions. The factory creates a 3D model in CAD that is reviewed for accuracy. If FP45s and SDP40Fs aren't hitting the 500-750 unit threshold, I have a hard time seeing this project do that. It could possibly fly as a brass project.
Superliners are a good idea but prices are getting close to $300 a car for Aluminum. It does allow for another run of El Capitan cars as perhaps individual cars for the Phase II and Phase III and Coast Starlight modeler.
I would love to see another El Capitan run. I missed my chance to get a Hi-Level lounge and I don't exactly have the money to get the 8 car set, just a little bit outside my price range haha.
300 is to be expected for your level of quality. Better to pay that than try to find K-Line cars, not to mention the better detail that your Superliners would have.
Mike DeBerg posted:
Besides the P42's we are getting the new Siemens Charger units on the Lincoln Service trains through town.
Well if we're talking about ugly units might as well try boxcabs or those weird Rock Island B units with cabs as those will sell.
GG1 4877 posted:GenesisFan99 posted:They would probably have to work with Siemens to get the tooling and it would have to be licensed by Amtrak.
Licensing by Amtrak will possibly be required as anything with the current Amtrak logo is of interest to Amtrak. Bachmann is doing the ACS-64 in HO and H, but it doesn't appear that they will do it in O. As for tooling, we just need good quality photographs some key dimensions. The factory creates a 3D model in CAD that is reviewed for accuracy. If FP45s and SDP40Fs aren't hitting the 500-750 unit threshold, I have a hard time seeing this project do that. It could possibly fly as a brass project.
Superliners are a good idea but prices are getting close to $300 a car for Aluminum. It does allow for another run of El Capitan cars as perhaps individual cars for the Phase II and Phase III and Coast Starlight modeler.
Licensing agreements evidently have been negotiated by Bachmann for the ACS-64 in HO and N, so I don't see why Amtrak and Siemens would not do the same for an O scale manufacturer. A flexible licensing arrangement could make the fee proportional to the number of models sold. If they are willing to let Sunset/3rd Rail use their intellectual property such as logos, paint schemes, etcetera, they probably would agree to have a locomotive photographed as part of the deal. I would be interested to know whether drawings or photographs were provided to Bachmann... To me, the ACS-64 is a much more interesting possibility than another classic diesel or even a steam engine. We already have tons of those - including a nice P-42 model by MTH... And I think there would be a substantial market among O scale/gauge hobbyists. There are a lot of O scale/gauge modelers and fans along the NEC. Why not try it and see?
MELGAR
Mike DeBerg posted:
Besides the P42's we are getting the new Siemens Charger units on the Lincoln Service trains through town.
Seems we keep setting a new standard of ugly with each and every new passenger locomotive produced.
Another point regarding a model of the ACS-64:
Reservation availability would have to be advertised in the model railroad print media to expand the customer base - not just on line at the Sunset/3rd Rail website - which I look at every day.
MELGAR
Mike DeBerg,
Well, it sure is a flashy thing isn't it? One, maybe two things I don't get about Amtrak: 1st, why do they keep insisting upon their engineers having such a limited field of forward vision??? The AMD103s and P40/42s are similar. It would drive me nuts not to have a wide degree of unobstructed vision on the front of the locomotive. 2nd, why is it that the designed "lines" on almost none of Amtrak's equipment match. Budd, PS, and EMD managed it okay in the 1950s. It seems every new piece of Amtrak equipment I see was built with some other use in mind and "matches" nothing else in shape and color. The new baggage cars look very odd on the CZ as it passes through Arvada Crossing, but then the P42s look just as odd. So here you have locomotives, baggage cars, and passenger cars, none of which look like they were built to run together, much less compliment each other in appearance and function. Very odd.
The ACS-64 is a modern, high-technology locomotive that operates at speeds above 100 MPH every day, carrying thousands of passengers between the largest cities in the USA. As an engineer and passenger, that makes it interesting to me. I also happen to like how it looks, and I'm certainly not alone in that opinion.
MELGAR
RDUNNlll,
One car I left out of my posting on Amtrak was the 85ft Postal Cars with the Center Shutter Door. I wonder if there would be enough interest in this car, along with the 60ft Gunderson Express Cars, and the MHCs, plus the full length and shorter Heritage Baggage Cars. These are the cars left behind by Overland who will not produce them, and they certainly won't be done by Brands A, M, or L. Now it is true that MTH did and still does produce a MHC, but along with their P42, they are a poor stand-in for the scale models made by OMI. A better quality scale model is called for, but, again, that's just my opinion and, remember, I am in therapy! In truth, my interests would be attracted more by the Gunderson Car and the Full Length Mail Cars. There were two phases for the Gunderson cars. Phase One cars had a peaked roof in Phases lVa, lVb, and V paint, while Phase Two cars had a flat roof and were seen in Phase 5 paint, and just plain platinum (call it Phase Vl?). I believe the Gunderson cars have gone on to private owners, but I'm not sure about that. They certainly were almost brand spanking new when retired/abandoned by Amtrak. I would hate to think that they were scrapped.....and now that I think about it, there were some PFE R70-25s rebuilt/refurbished as express reefers. Now just think about the Mid-West/Western passenger trains we could build if we had such options. In my fantasy world of model railroading, Amtrak does this sort of hauling on it's intercity routes, although in reality, at the time, UP and BNSF vigorously objected to such activity and, then, Amtrak President Gunn agreed. Result: Lots of cool cars off to the Rip Track.
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