What would you like to see in the next AF catalog?

>> S Scale (not HiRail or Flyer) is in no position to stand on it's own right now or in the foreseeable future.  The major manufacturers of S will have to make allowances for the Flyer/Hirail crowd if they expect to sell anything at all. 

Rusty

Hi Rusty...

Yes, we agree on that.  The point that I am trying to make is that Lionel could design products that are generally acceptable to both the AF and the scale segments of S with only minor cost adders, if any, for the scale versions.  Extra charges for wheels, etc. with reasonable prices are fine.  Adopting this philosophy, Lionel could add perhaps 10-15% more sales to its S products compared to designing them only for the AF market.  This is not rocket science.  SHS and AM and DPH have all done it successfully.  Worst case, if necessary, charge an extra 5% for the scale versions due to smaller production volumes.  I doubt that anyone would complain if the product came with scale wheels and scale Kadee couplers.  They will be happy just to have the product in a form they can use right out of the box.

Most scale guys are not rivet counters and do not expect perfection.  They are simply looking for a substantial improvement over the classical AF products in terms of authenticity and detailing.  Most of them do not need or want Legacy, TMCC, smoke, electro-couplers, crew talk or whatever other whiz-bang features turn on the AF crowd.  Just plain old DC and DCC and basic sounds will make them all very happy -- except for the rivet counters which we can safely ignore.  Thus, it might be argued, the products intended for the scale folks might not need a cost adder at all.  Maybe a cost subtractor?  Neat idea, eh?

Cheers...Ed L.

Um...wasn't the question what you'd like to see in the next AF catalog?

Mark

Gunderson/Greenbrier freight cars

Husky-Stack All purpose intermodal well car

Auto-Max Bi-Max articulated auto carrier

Maxi-Stack 3-unit intermodal well car

Andrew

Des Plaines Hobbies in Chicago has Gunderson Husky Stack well cars (not All Purpose) in several road names and also has containers in several lengths and paint schemes in stock and ready to ship -- both scale versions and AF-compatible versions.  They have a web site with a complete listing and Hoquat Hobbies has several photos on their web site.  Nice details and paint jobs.  Michael Greene has a web site with a detailed product review and hints/tips for dealing with the coupler height error.  Worth reading before ordering.   Not quite what you listed, but darn close.  Ed L. 

Clarification: Gunderson/Greenbrier

53' Well Husky-Stack all purpose well car.

With 53' Containers and 53' Trailers.

That has not been made in S Scale and it matches the time period of the SD70ACe diesel locomotives.

Andrew

Good Day Martin,

To my knowledge Maxi-Stack® I Car and Maxi-Stack® IV Car was created by the Greenbrier Companies http://www.gbrx.com/Stack_Cars.php

Regards,

Frank

Oddly enough, Ed's little side discussion with me do reflect indirectly what we as "scalers" would like to see in the next AF catalog.

We're basically asking for a little more clarity in the catalog regarding features the scale crowd would be attracted to.

Now, Lionel could certainly survive without making scale-friendly products for Flyer and they might even decide that our little corner of the hobby isn't worth the bother.

But, we would like them to stick with us.

Rusty

To get this string a bit back on track.....

Traditional:

1. D&H ALCo PA set with Legacy (I believe that there is a good chance for this).

2. Two bay hoppers done for Reading -- never done by Gilbert or Lionel

Scale Hi-rail:

1. All new Legacy PRR K4s or NYC J1a or J3a

2. Additional new modern freight rolling stock to complement the new modern diesels - several good suggestions were made above.

As for the rest of it.....

Delays,.... I do not like them either. However, (1) the economy is still weak and train sales are accordingly tougher than was first imagined; and (2) the various manufacturing difficulties in China are fairly well known. These factors are affecting the hobby in general and are resulting in delays, postponements, and a greater emphasis on trains that can be made with existing tooling. MTH, AM and Lionel are all working to varying degrees under these limitations, as one can readily observe. 

Lionel has promised the scale flange option for the new (i.e., non-Gilbert non-traditional) stuff going forward (U33 and after) and has delivered on that promise to date. The SD70 and ES44 are AC, DC, DCC, and Legacy capable out of the box, making these engines as universally usable as any S products available. Scale and hi-rail flange configurations will be available in some fashion on the modern newly tooled rolling stock.

As one is 'kvetching', it would be useful to remember the broader set of factors with which our manufacturers are struggling. 

Bob

In the next catalog, I would like to see:

40ft hi-cube (dry van) corrugated containers, similar to the ones Atlas makes for O scale.

In the following liveries:

Hyundai

K-line

China Shipping

Maersk

Hanjin

Kvetching is what we do best, her and on the other forums.

Being involved in the manufacturing process, (not in trains, however) I'm fully aware of things that can cause delays. 

That said, there's very little existing tooling present to produce scale proprtioned American Flyer that would produce cars and locomotives to match the "wish lists" that appear here.

However, any new tooling for Flyer I would fully expect to be based on products already produced in Lionel's O scale lineup for the forseeable future.  Anything outside the existing O scale line, I would seriously doubt would be reproduced in Flyer.

As to "scale friendly," as one Lionel rep (long gone now in one of the management changes since) called it in 2003, yes Lionel has delivered to an extent, but they don't make it easy.  The catalog is the first line of communication rfor many folks, and if there are inaccuracies or omissions, no amount of forum posts or "Bob told Fred who told Steve who told me" type of communication is reliable as a final word.

Is it really out of line to expect something like a cataloged part number for scale wheelsets?  It would simplify things greatly and quell some of the rampant speculation.  What's Lionel afraid of, that folks will order scale wheels to make necklaces?

Lionel's been in transition again lately, moving people and facilities around.  Hopefully things will finally settle down in 2014 and the "Flyer life" can be more calm.

And, in the spirit of the original intent of the thread:

I would like to see:

Scale replacement wheelsets listed in the catalog, so anyone can order them with a locomotive or car from their favorite dealer rather than have to go through the parts website.

Rusty

Good Day,

The EMD GP40 would be a nice addition. There are many railroads to present. Here are just a few of the railroads that purchased GP40s. Just think of all the regional railroads and short line railroads that still operate the GP40s. 

ACL
B&O
CB&Q
DRGW
DTI
FEC
IC MILW
MKT
NW
NYC
PC
RF&P
RI
SAL
SOO
SSW
WM
WP

Regards,

Frank

I'd like to see several small warehouse buildings.

Regards,

Frank

Quick, w/o surfing the internet, what are the spotting differences between the GP35 and GP40?

(American Models currently offers the GP35.)

Fair enough.

I believe that individual scale flange wheel sets are available for the SD70. Lionel has not, however, made their availability 'obvious'.

Bob

The quick i.d.: The GP40 has three 40" fans on the rear of the hood, the GP35 has two 40" fans and one 36" fan inbetween them.  (I think I got the sizes right... been a while.)

Rusty

Matt,

to briefly answer your query, the gp35 had 2500 hp, th 40 had 3000, not that you could spot it externally...

the  40 is 3 feet longer than the 35 and there are 4 fans atop the 40, three large and one small vs. 3 on the   35.  Then the gp40-2 has a water sight glass near the rear of the engineer's side...among other things...

Hallelujah!!!

http://www.gbrx.com/Stack_Cars.php?expandable=0

Maxi-Stack® IV Car

The Maxi-Stack IV car is the mainstay of the United States domestic double-stack car fleet because it provides the optimum balance between tare weight and capacity. It is a three-unit, articulated double-stack car that can handle containers from 20’ to 53’ long in the well and containers from 40’ to 57’ in the top position.

This is the modern car that matches the modern locomotives.

Andrew

Based on the original email

Fastrack:

-Deliver all previously announced pieces

-New 27"r turnouts

- Finish the Gilbert track replacement.  Need Accessory Fastrack

Diesels:

I am open to anything new here

Steam:

-SP GS Daylight -  This is a popular seller in all scales and will sell well in "S"

Freight:

- Autorack carriers, Maxi Stacks

Passenger cars:

-New scale or near-scale length cars with detailed lighted interiors and telescoping couplers.  I really want passenger cars with interiors.

Operating Accessories:

-We have reissued many of Gilberts operating accessories.  How about some new operating accessories maybe inspired by some of "O" accessories but in "S" scale.

Rocco

I would also like to see the fastrack line get delivered and expanded. I plan on using American models track for my layout and have started to stock pile some.  I have some flyer fastrack for my carpet layout but I cannot give any serious thought to using this track (cannot even call it a track system at this point) on my layout because its failure to make it off the ground and into the market place.  I hope Lionel develops a way to use their future LCS IR piece with other non-Lionel track systems. I love the Legacy system and I think when the time comes to start building my layout (16x18 room) I will get the ZW-L.  

Wish list is as follows…

“Traditional” Flyer;

C&NW GP9

Re-release of Union Pacific ALCo PA set with legacy

UP Baldwin Switcher

4-8-4 Northern in C&NW

Heavywight passenger cars in green Pullman AND Milwaukee Road colors (only been asking for that one for 5 years now)

Scale(ish) High rail;

GP40-2 C&NW, Wisconsin Central, SF, UP, Milwaukee Road and any number of other road names

C&NW U30C

The new Berkshire in C&NW

DM&IR Yellowstone

UP scale Big Boy

UP H7 (I don't know if there are enough road names to support this one)

SP Daylight GS with a run of passenger cars

SD70ACe in UP heritage KATY and WP, more unit numbers in BNSF

ES44 in UP, BNSF and CP

A Shay, while not at the top of my list would be cool

Rolling stock is never ending list, with many good ideas already spelled out above. 

I would really like to see pre-built structures in S.  There are so many nice structures made for the O Gauge guys just waiting to be shrunk down a little bit.

Ben

For those of us who do not want any Legacy or similar electronic things, AM is just fine.  And Ed  Goldin (of Goldinhands) will install it on almost anything if you contact him.  He does good work. 

As far as a wish list for Flyer, most everything mentioned so far is fair game to me!  I'd especially like to see the Berk come out ASAP!  Modern rolling stock as well, since I'm not firmly locked into any time period.  A change of vehicles and minor mods to the buildings (posters, etc.) accomplishes a time machine effect. 

Jerry

Agreed. Different horses for different courses, but put me down for Legacy as a 'must have' in most instances for anything new and non-traditional. The ability to have very low speed cruise control, multilevel integrated Railsounds with quillable whistles and horns, remote electrocouplers, smoke with level control, flashing ditch lights, etc. all add greatly to the enjoyment (read 'play value') of a new engine. All done with the robust simplicity of TMCC and with DCC compatibility. Many of these features, unfortunately, can not be retrofitted into older and more simple designs. I am not wildly interested in going backwards, unless it is for a good ol' nostalgic run of original Gilbert.

To each their own.

Bob

I'd like to see Ameritowne and Woodland Scenics, to name two, come out with a large number of "S" buildings. Then I might move to something larger than my 4x6 layout of AF postwar running on one loop of S-Helper track.

I'd be a buyer of the Woodland buildings in S Scale.......................

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/OScaleBuiltNReady?tsort=default&perPage=16&view=grid

For those of us who still like the old AF Franklins & Washingtons.

Mark

Oh but American models does have sound cards lile Railsounds.  They just don't have voices.

American Models sound is far from state of the art and is only available in AC E8's, FP7's and steam locomotives. 

Diesel sounds have prime mover(sorta OK), horn and bell.  Steam has whistle, bell and something that almost sounds like a pop valve going off occasionally.  "Chugging" is accomplished by the smoke piston like old Flyer, except at two chuffs per revolution.

It's very basic and nowhere near Railsounds in quality.

As I recall, AM sound boards were made by Ott, who is no longer in business as far as I can determine.

Rusty

I know a lot of folks here like American Models and that's great. I've looked into them, but the cost and effort involved with getting a model to look and sound as good as what Lionel is making is prohibitive for me. That keeps me from buying their products.

I also dabble in HO from time to time and when I look at the amount of detail and amazing sound and control that comes RTR in HO for less than an AM engine I just can't pull the trigger.

Everyone is it different, but I will not buy a Lionel S gauge engine without Legacy and Railsounds. That's most of why I want their products in the first place.

My favorite Lionel engines are the 726, 736, 746, and the 773.

I would like to see A/F versions of these classic O guage models!

Both in traditional and legacy.

Phil. 

An Atlas O style truss bridge would be nice in S scale.

How about an S scale series of SD40/45 tunnel motors. Maybe MTH can scale down their O scale version for S scale.

A GP40-2 like the Athearn HO scale version would be nice in S!

Lionel O scale aluminum 3 and 4 bay hoppers would be sweet in S.

NYC Hudson

PRR T-1

UP FEF-2 or FEF-3

Oil tenders for Challengers 3977 and 3710 - why can't they just make interchangeable coal and oil tops for Union Pacific centipede tenders?

GG-1

I'd really like to see a Amtrak Amfleet Cab Car again, or even a Metroliner.

It is interesting to observe nearly 60 items in response to the question "What would you like to see in the next AF catalog."  Few, if any, of the 60 represent a fantasy car.  Nearly all of the 60 are asking for a realistic car.  Yet Lionel catalogs of recent have been predominantly fantasy items in the freight car department.  Engines have been a mix of both fantasy and realistic which, to me, is a fine place to be. 

I am beginning to wonder if the Lionel marketing and product deciders really monitor this OGR forum at all.  With so many requests for realistic freight cars and the current catalog full of fantasy, it would seem there is a major disconnect.

Just thinking........why don't we all take a vote and send the #1 choice directly to Lionel and ask them to make it? 

Cheers.....Ed L.