When did 55 ton Hoppers move from roughly 32 feet long to 36 feet long?

Interesting stuff! I'm going to read the article but I'm very curious as to what the answer is.

I believe the correct answer is they didn't!

I looked at your article and am including the links to 2 more.

https://appalachianrailroadmod...ory-of-coal-hoppers/

https://lionelllc.wordpress.co...ar-friday-coal-cars/

I understand where you are coming from with your question, as in general freight cars have gotten bigger over time.  I fact Hopper Cars have, but it was as a result of capacity (ton rating) increase.  However, there would not be a reason to change the length from 32 to 36 ft if the capacity (ton rating) stayed the same.  This would increase manufacturing cost.  Unless over time coal got lighter.  LOL

However this is not to say that some Real Hopper Builders might have built them different lengths.

Now on the subject of the models shown.  I have lots of Weaver Freight Cars they are the backbone of my RR.  I really like them, but they are not RR specific prototypes.  They would build a car (plastic mold) and just reletter it as desired (also many fantasy schemes).  It is interesting they chose 36 ft for their hoppers when the USRA standards were 32 ft.  BTW Weaver Covered PS-2 hoppers are 34 ft long (correct to prototype).

Hope this helps!

Thanks, Nice links and interesting details there.  As you note, it does not make sense for any real 55 ton car to be four feet longer than another one with the same capacity.  I think you have a good theory that on these coal cars Weaver perhaps was not prototype focused - and for whatever reason- made them an inch longer.  All the die cast cars I have are 8 inches / 32 feet. None of the documentation we have found so far identifies a prototype 55 ton car as 36 feet long.

@MainLine Steam posted:

I believe the correct answer is they didn't!

I looked at your article and am including the links to 2 more.

https://appalachianrailroadmod...ory-of-coal-hoppers/

https://lionelllc.wordpress.co...ar-friday-coal-cars/

I understand where you are coming from with your question, as in general freight cars have gotten bigger over time.  I fact Hopper Cars have, but it was as a result of capacity (ton rating) increase.  However, there would not be a reason to change the length from 32 to 36 ft if the capacity (ton rating) stayed the same.  This would increase manufacturing cost.  Unless over time coal got lighter.  LOL

However this is not to say that some Real Hopper Builders might have built them different lengths.

Now on the subject of the models shown.  I have lots of Weaver Freight Cars they are the backbone of my RR.  I really like them, but they are not RR specific prototypes.  They would build a car (plastic mold) and just reletter it as desired (also many fantasy schemes).  It is interesting they chose 36 ft for their hoppers when the USRA standards were 32 ft.  BTW Weaver Covered PS-2 hoppers are 34 ft long (correct to prototype).

Hope this helps!

@hokie71 posted:

Thanks, Nice links and interesting details there.  As you note, it does not make sense for any real 55 ton car to be four feet longer than another one with the same capacity.  I think you have a good theory that on these coal cars Weaver perhaps was not prototype focused - and for whatever reason- made them an inch longer.  All the die cast cars I have are 8 inches / 32 feet. None of the documentation we have found so far identifies a prototype 55 ton car as 36 feet long.

Think I found the answer for the Weavers length.  The company was heavily focused on PRR prototypes.  Using that assumption I found this link.

http://prr.railfan.net/freight...spage.html?class=H31

These H31's were 35 ft long.  So close enough.  I don't mean to disparage Weaver in any way, shape or form, as I mentioned they are my favorite freight cars!  When I was in HO I favored Athearn Yellow/Blue Box Kits.  To me scale proportions, and nice paint jobs, at a TERRIFIC price point, due to mass production and lack of details as sold.  The buyer can always "knock themselves out" making them look more prototypically correct.

That is another good link. I may be missing something but it still appears to show the PRR prototype at 32 feet.

I'd be interested to know the height of the sides of the two cars pictured in the original post. To my eye, the shorter car appears to have a touch higher sides. That might explain how both could have the same capacity. Kinda like iron ore cars - "Michigan" ore cars (C&NW, MILW) are narrower than "Minnesota" (DMIR, GN) ore cars, but both have the same capacity because the Michigan cars are a bit taller.

@wjstix posted:

I'd be interested to know the height of the sides of the two cars pictured in the original post. To my eye, the shorter car appears to have a touch higher sides. That might explain how both could have the same capacity. Kinda like iron ore cars - "Michigan" ore cars (C&NW, MILW) are narrower than "Minnesota" (DMIR, GN) ore cars, but both have the same capacity because the Michigan cars are a bit taller.

Good question and both cars were on the layout so easy to measure.  Sadly, no joy.  both are the same height (2 inches) and width (2.5 inches).

There were a large number of different twin hopper designs operated by US railroads.  The widely used USRA riveted construction design dates back to WW1 when federal government nationalized the railroads, mandated standardized designs, and allocated production.  The PRR receiving only 300 USRA twin hoppers.  The PRR car shops were permitted to build large numbers of H21 quad hoppers during the USRA control period.  On the PRR the USRA design hoppers were designated class GLd.  The Weaver plastic twin hopper is a fairly accurate rendition of a post WW2 Pullman Standard Car Co. PS-3 welded twin hopper.  The PRR however didn't own any PS-3's, preferring their own designs.  PRR twin hoppers were of riveted construction and thousands were built in classes GL, GLa, GLc, GLca, H31(and sub classes a,b,c).  IMO the single best source for comprehensive info on PRR hoppers is John Teichmoeller's  soft cover 160-page Pennsylvania Railroad Open Hopper Cars.  Over the past 60 years an unbelievably wide variety of PRR open hoppers have been produced in brass for the O scale market.  Coverage includes GL, GLa, GLca, GLd, H31, H31a, H31b, H31c, H21, H21a, H21e, H22, H22a, H25, H25a, H27, H35, H36, and H37 models.  Importers include Max Gray, US Hobbies, Precision Scale, Overland, Yoder, and Keystone Model Works.  Of particular note are the 150+ brass PRR hoppers in 8 different classes scratch built in the US by master builder Robert Parri.

Sorry Hokie I looked at the drawing of the H31 too quickly, didn't mean to mislead.

http://prr.railfan.net/freight...ag=h31.gif&fr=cl

Ed thanks for the information on the basis for the Weaver design (PS-3).

I am including a picture of 2 of my Weaver Hoppers (PRR).  They are identical (same mold) except for the peaked end on the Top one labeled class HM built 7-50, capacity shown as 50 ton / 2142 cu ft .  The Lower one class GLC built 7-15, capacity 50 ton / 1672 cu ft (should be a fish belly).  Anyhow gets back to what I mentioned about how Weaver used a mold for various different cars just changed the markings.

http://prr.railfan.net/freight...gl_glc.gif&fr=cl

BTW the "heap" (coal above the top rail) was also taken into consideration when Hopper Cars were designed.

Weaver based their hoppers (rib side, offset side, composite side) on the all-welded Pullman PS-3 twin hopper of the 1950's. Doing so saved money on retaining the basic 36' frame and body length for all. The PS-3 had a body length of 36' and all subsequent Weaver hoppers also used that basic size, regardless of the type of sides.  L&N was a buyer of the rib-side welded 50-ton Pullman PS-3 and is featured in Pullman's ad for the PS-3 in the 1953 Car Builder's Cyclopedia. 

While most twin hoppers of the period (late 1930's - 50's) had a 34' length (most shop- built N&W twin hoppers had a 32' length), Unitcast Corp built some 60-ton capacity 36' offset side twin hoppers and 55-ton capacity 36' rib side twin hoppers of riveted construction.  However, my 1953 edition of Car Builder's Cyclopedia does not show any photos of the Unitcast twin hoppers, except one photo of a triple hopper for Montour.

S. Islander