Well, actually, I get by fine without subscribing to any hobby magazines, with my O-Gauge trains and model cars, and my model shipbuilding. I go to the Barnes and Noble about once a month and look at all of them and will buy when there is an article I want to keep or an issue looks particularly appealing. I really don't see much difference between OGR and CTT frankly - both are good magazines staffed be people committed to the hobby, as are magazines like Fine Scale Modeler, but I don't subscribe to any.
@Trainmaster04 posted:Thanks, everyone for giving me an idea of each magazine. I do have to confess that I have in the past subscribed to CTT but, in my opinion, got scammed because I lost all access to subscriber extras. I tried to contact them but since they go through a third party publisher there is not a direct way the contact CTT. From that, I am a bit sour about them but it has been a while since that incident. Thanks again for y'all's words of opinions and have a great day!
Huh? Third-party publisher? CTT is published by Kalmbach. Always has been. There is no outside publisher. The company produces all of its magazines.
No way to contact CTT? On page 4 of every issue are the email addresses of staff.
Both magazines are pretty good, but the OGR forum wins for online presence, hands down! 
Mitch
One compliments the other (not intentionally of course) and really a personal choice to only pick one. They are both great!
@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:Both magazines are pretty good, but the OGR forum wins for online presence, hands down!
Mitch
There is definitely a lot more traffic on this forum compared to the CTT one. There is a negative aspect to having such a large number of posts per day. New posts sometimes get wiped off the front page of the "RECENT POSTS" list on the right too quickly if nobody comments on them fairly frequently. Since CTT's forum has a much lower average post count per day, that doesn't tend to happen. Again, that's a double-edged sword. There's a bigger chance the majority of the members there will see most posts, but the number of people with helpful knowledge and/or experience is far more limited there.
BOTTOM LINES:
- OGR has a far more useful and popular forum.
- OGR magazine offers a wider scope of coverage for O trains including 2-rail, 3-rail/Hi-Rail, and Toy.
- CTT concentrates on "Toy" aspect of O, S, & Standard trains from pre-war, postwar, & modern
- CTT's forum has a lot less traffic that offers a lot of specific knowledge about Lionel's non-scale products
This is like asking which is healthier to eat, apples or oranges.
I'm getting tired of the Classic Toy Trains mantra that the trains are "toys." Considering what I'm paying for engines—shelled out $1,700 for a used engine from Ace Trains in the UK recently—I don't think of them as" toys". Thomas: toy. Others: not so much.
Also, I buy O Gauge trains, and CTT has now started running lots of articles about S Gauge. Not interested.
Bought these a coupla years ago:
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Andrew: The toy vs model debate is another example of PERSONAL choice. I consider ALL the hundreds of trains in various gauges I have acquired over at least six decades at ANY price to be recreational TOYS! I also have a good friend who is a collector of fine firearms and he always calls to tell me about his latest TOY acquisition, most recently a Sig Sauer P-210 Target pistol at $1500. LOL!
@Andrew-Porter posted:I'm getting tired of the Classic Toy Trains mantra that the trains are "toys." Considering what I'm paying for engines—shelled out $1,700 for a used engine from Ace Trains in the UK recently—I don't think of them as" toys". Thomas: toy. Others: not so much.
Also, I buy O Gauge trains, and CTT has now started running lots of articles about S Gauge. Not interested.
Nice engines and train collection Andrew. I also like your British and American piston-engine airplanes. It's possible that CTT has recently expanded their coverage of S-gauge due to the demise of a major S-gauge publication. Like you, I consider my trains to be more accurately described as "scale models," not toys, and I do not read CTT. The OGR magazine and Forum are much better aligned with my particular interests and for me have much more to offer than any of the others.
MELGAR
I'm amazed by the number of hobbyists who continue to play the denial game. Unless you are creating diorama displays as art, curating history (in an academic sense, not as a casual fan) or involved in the manufacturing end of the product line, you are playing with toys.
In an overwhelming number of instances, it started when you were a kid and kept at it, becoming more sophisticated, but nonetheless still playing.
All the defenses -- they're too expensive to be toys (a $5,000 ATV is a toy, as is a $1,000 air hockey game), they’re scale models (that you play with just the same as traditional toy trains) and they're operated realistically to represent the real world (but in reality transport no real merchandise to feed, clothe or serve any living people in a make-believe world) -- reveal an insecurity of one's self.
This goes for all model railroaders who crack the throttle to get a thrill about moving trains around.
Accept it. You're just playing.
Possibly, to those adult friends and relatives who hear the words, "scale models", we do not become the target of jokes as we would if we said "toy trains"?
Personally, I see there being toy trains and then there are scale models. To me, I have both and they have their special places. I enjoy them both but it is hard for me not to like modern trains more than the toy collectibles.
@Jim R. posted:I'm amazed by the number of hobbyists who continue to play the denial game. Unless you are creating diorama displays as art, curating history (in an academic sense, not as a casual fan) or involved in the manufacturing end of the product line, you are playing with toys.
In an overwhelming number of instances, it started when you were a kid and kept at it, becoming more sophisticated, but nonetheless still playing.
''''''''''''
Accept it. You're just playing.
You can define your involvement with the hobby however you like, but please don't do it for me. If I build a layout that is realistic in scenery and structures rather than 1950s toy train, the layout is a scale model. If I don't run tinplate or traditionally-sized postwar locomotives and rolling stock, but do run only scale-sized and detailed models, they are scale models, and their cost has nothing to do with it. If I have no 1950s Lionel accessories on my layout, there are no toy accessories. If my trains and layout represent a particular era and railroad, they are realistic beyond just being toys. I couldn't care less about your opinion, but you need to apply it to yourself, not anyone else.
MELGAR
The definition of what we actually are doing with our hobby is indeed a personal choice and cannot be defined by anyone else but ourself.
A little perspective (IMO): In 2011 I traded in my car for a new Ford Raptor that I definitely didn’t need. It was my toy truck.
Then in 2015 I wanted a different toy. Mopar was putting a 707 horsepower motor in a sedan whose top speed is 204 mph. All of which I didn’t need. But it sure is a fun toy. I grin every time I get on it a little.
Some now let me tell you about my model railroad...
Perhaps "toys" are in the eyes of the beholder? My friend, the gun collector, who owns custom pistols costing multiple thousands, still refers to them as toys, yet they are in fact deadly weapons not fit for any child. Neither is a 707 HP auto, yet even my wife referred to her Porsche Boxster as her toy! Go figure!
@Joe Hohmann posted:I no longer get either, but one thing is for sure, this forum is FAR more active and informative.
OMG -Ii you use the form (which is a freebee) - supported by subs to the mag. I cannot believe anyone would be so cheap (& I qualify as cheap/cheap) as to use something the rest of us support by not subing to an excellent mag.
@SURFLINER posted:OMG -Ii you use the form (which is a freebee) - supported by subs to the mag. I cannot believe anyone would be so cheap (& I qualify as cheap/cheap) as to use something the rest of us support by not subing to an excellent mag.
I believe OGR uses vendor advertising income (as seen at the top of this page), OGR sales from newstands income, along with book & video sales income to provide this forum---not just subscription money.
@Rich Melvin posted:I find this amazing.
This is like going to the Chevy dealer and asking them what they think of Fords.
Rich, it may be more like going to the Chevy dealer sales floor and asking thecustomers shopping in the show room what they think of Fords.
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Edit; just realized the OP is 16! I should be more welcoming. Mr. Trainmaster, Welcome to the land of arrested development where adults find enjoyment capturing the thrill of flanged wheel transportation at home in a variety of ways. All ways good!
I am happy for you to have found OGR, it can be a growing experience. Tons of resource, great buying opportunities in the "for sale" dept, encouraging photos, diverse experience. Thanks for hanging in with some of our rebuffing, mine included.
@phrankenstign posted:I believe OGR uses vendor advertising income (as seen at the top of this page), OGR sales from newstands income, along with book & video sales income to provide this forum---not just subscription money.
Yes. agree OGR uses form adv. money to support the form, but - I'll bet my first born & the cat that no mag = no form. "Us'ins" need to support both. I used to sub to CTT & OGR, but (for me) OGR has left CTT in the dust.
I have enjoyed both for decades, and personally feel fortunate that both magazines are available. For me, each frequently adds something different to my pursuit, or, simple enjoyment of the hobby. Sometimes, just learning one "tip" or "trick" can be useful for many, many years.
I've subscribed to both OGR and CTT for many years, almost since the beginning for CTT and since the Biggar/Saslo years for OGR. I also borrow Railroad Model Craftsman and Model Railroader from my library and read them. (As an aside, since I'm also into "real" trains [aren't we all, to at least some extent?], I also read both Classic Trains and Trains magazines, likewise borrowed from the library.)
Stay healthy.
Chris
I've subscribed to and read many different railroad magazines but always come back to OGR as my favorite month after month.
I call my hobby simply "My Layout"
OGR and CTT are both great. I subscribe to both.
Pat
@Tom Tee posted:Rich, it may be more like going to the Chevy dealer sales floor and asking thecustomers shopping in the show room what they think of Fords.
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Edit; just realized the OP is 16! I should be more welcoming. Mr. Trainmaster, Welcome to the land of arrested development where adults find enjoyment capturing the thrill of flanged wheel transportation at home in a variety of ways. All ways good!
I am happy for you to have found OGR, it can be a growing experience. Tons of resource, great buying opportunities in the "for sale" dept, encouraging photos, diverse experience. Thanks for hanging in with some of our rebuffing, mine included.
Thank you for your kind words! I will say that I have been in the hobby a little longer than a lot of you may think. Also, that is the first time anyone has welcomed me into the OGR community for the two years I have been a forum member. Thanks!
OGR and its Forum have become a big part of my interest in model trains. Their positive impact on the O gauge hobby is huge. If you like the hobby and read (or post on) the Forum, it is important to help them out by subscribing to the magazine or digital. Although I don't subscribe to CTT, I have been a subscriber to MR, RMC and OST for quite a few years. OGR most closely reflects my interests and also gives me the opportunity to have my articles in print, which the others do not.
MELGAR
@Trainmaster04 posted:Thank you for your kind words! I will say that I have been in the hobby a little longer than a lot of you may think. Also, that is the first time anyone has welcomed me into the OGR community for the two years I have been a forum member. Thanks!
Then, as a simple suggestion, you might provide some, any, information about yourself, in your Forum Profile (which appears to be completely blank).
I Like both but prefer OGR and have to say OGR is a much better deal if you subscribe digital.
@Hot Water posted:Then, as a simple suggestion, you might provide some, any, information about yourself, in your Forum Profile (which appears to be completely blank).
Sorry I did not fill out my profile sooner. I just got it done and here is a copy of my biography from my profile:
I got started in the hobby when I was around three years old. That was when my dad gave his 1974-1976 Santa Fe Alco FA A-B diesel set where the railroad bug bit me hard, and I mean HARD! From there I was like a sponge soaking up anything and everything trains. That same year my parents got me the 2004 variation of the Polar Express but no passenger cars. When I got my Polar Express I found my love affair with steam and to me, it seemed I could not get enough of steam. Eventually, I got my first layout and I was thrilled with it! At the time, I had a bunk bed and so my dad built me a ceiling layout that ran around my room and the control panel was right by my pillow. As I grew I started to learn more and more, thanks to Eric's Trains, I started to think about expanding into a bigger layout. At the time my family and I had just moved into a house with a shed, which my dad used for storage, and I thought maybe I could convince my parents to help me build a layout in the shed. So I kept that thought in my head for a long time until I was around ten. When I turned ten my dad and I got some wood and built a small layout in that shed. That was when I started to experiment with track scenery and eventually Legacy. Since I started with Lionel trains I always looked towards them in awe and wonder. With that said, I always wanted to get into Legacy from a very young age. When I was around 13 I purchased my first Legacy locomotive. It was a Legacy Southern Pacific ten-wheeler but, at the time, I had nothing to run it with. Thankfully, a friend of mine, at my local hobby shop, gave me his Legacy command set. I was thrilled! So thrilled that I took my bed off of its platform and built a small oval on it just so that I could run that engine! I thought things could not be any better until... One night that year I lost three family members in a row. First, my grandfather, who I did not know but loved, then my great uncle, and, the closest, our family dog Stella who was in our family since I was five. Losing Stella took a toll on me because I blamed myself for her death but God always has a plan. The year was 2017 soon turning into 2018. At the end of 2017, my parents started looking for a bigger house for two reasons. One, my grandmother was reaching an age where she needs some minor help with things. The second, I was running out of space in the shed. Eventually, my parents found a house with four rooms and a big basement. From there my dad and I built the current layout that I have now and my collection has grown at a huge rate! Now I work for a man, who is another train nut, and every Saturday I go over and work on his 36' by 32' layout and catalog over 900 Legacy locomotives. I could have written more but I did not want to bore you out with a 5-page long paper. Thanks for reading and happy railroading!
As far as the blank profile for Mr. TM that may well be a parental encouragement for a rather young man when he would digitally socialize with many folks four times his age.
I would encourage my mid teen son to do the same.
Privacy can be a very wise consideration.
I believe Mr. TM and others like him are the future of our hobby and should be supported, mentored if you may, as best possible.
Ramblings:
In the broader overview we need untold multitudes of young folks to hop on board this choo-choo train to help in the dissolving of our estates. At the rate train collections are coming to market we presently do not have enough surviving modelers to support anticipated sale prices.
OTOH, the depressed resale market will be of great assist for younger folks to buy in.
So maybe in the long run, the dip in sale prices will help bump up the modeling family.
Anyone leaving their trains to younger folks in their will?
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Edit, wow, the above was posted just b/4 mine. I wonder how many more folks like this are out there???
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Edit #2, check out TM's You Tube site in his profile. This guy has some nice locos and cars!!
Some people get the idea of supporting a business because they both value what it delivers and they want it to survive. The market for print media has turned totally brutal. I have gotten way more out of OGR, CTT and this forum than I can ever repay. The LEAST I can do is subscribe.
IMHO, OGR Forum should also join Patreon. I support several Youtubers who bust their tails to deliver great content. I don't see why OGR Forum shouldn't pull in some voluntary support in addition to the (what must be 100%) support of the magazine.
And finally, I make a point of using OGR forum advertisers. Yea, it's sometimes cheaper on Amazon, but as we learn about what "robber baron Bezos" is doing with Amazon, I hope we might not be so quick to buy there. (though, full dislosure, I do sometimes buy on Amazon).
Good discussion--an important discussion.Don
Don
@dkdkrd posted:BTW....
However, as a staff member (with one week away from retirement as such) of our Local Hobby Shop (LHS), I hope you'll purchase your reading material from your local LHS....Regardless, your LHS welcomes your magazine purchases. You know......the small business trying to survive in tough times....sometimes through no fault of their own?
KD
That is a good point. But an OGR digital subscription can only be delivered on line. And, the nearest train store to me is thirty miles away.
MELGAR
That's a good point, dkdkrd!
I've bought many of my OGR and CTT copies at hobby shops. That's one reason I brought up the fact that OGR used various types of income other than subscriptions to sustain this forum.
I've also bought videos and books at local hobby shops. The fact one can actually browse through the books has helped whet my appetite enough to purchase quite a few over the years. That's a big advantage over just seeing the cover on-line with a short summary of what's in it.
I am glad that you enjoy my YouTube videos! I am currently working on another running session and a product review of the new Menards Tide Soap Factory.
I subscribe to both OGR and CTT but my favorite is OGR. My all time favorite is Sports Illustrated Swim Suit edition! Just sayin!
I am currently only subscribing to OGR. I have read it or subscribed to it since the 1980s. I was also a subscriber to CTT from the first issue. If you were a postwar collector, those ear!y issues were gold. But lately I find the magazine is predictable and seems to have lost it's focus
I have to agree with Will, I usually get a subscription to CCT as a gift from my kids. The earlier years were great, It seamed like the magazine used to be almost a half inch thick, but there just isn't as much content in it now to keep my interest like it used to.
Jeff
I have given up on CTT as it just isn't what it use to be. I understand there is just so much you can write about classic trains, but that is what I thought the magazine was suppose to be about, but really isn't but they sure come up with special issues/documentaries about classic trains that they want $12 - $30 a pop for that I feel should be in the magazine. Anyway I now buy OGR and like it better. Oh and they just recently cut another months edition out of the yearly subscription. And as been stated it's been getting on the thin side also. Just doesn't worth it to me anymore.
I might add that there is more info on this forum than you could get out of a couple of decades of reading both magazines. In truth, the ease of posting photos and the ability to post video are game changers for online forums. Take just tinplate for example, my current interest. The extensive photo documentation that forum members post of every conceivable variation by manufacturers I was barely aware of is impressive and couldn't be duplicated in a print magazine.
In fact, I could see OGR going to a digital magazine format in the future where video will be an integral part of every issue. The only thing keeping this from happening now is curating and organizing the material and adding writing and editing.
I subscribe to OGR as much as a payback for the forum as for any content in the magazine itself.
I've been a subscriber to CTT and OGR for a long time. I view CTT like Popular Science and OGR as Popular Mechanics. CTT feels slick and glitzy while OGR is more down to earth with a lot of project ideas! But, you know, I look forward to pouring over both magazines!
