I know that many people are using their iPhone to video their layout. Was wondering if a GoPro 10 would be better, especially if I want to attach the camera to the front of the train to film its journey.
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@Bruce Feldman posted:I know that many people are using their iPhone to video their layout. Was wondering if a GoPro 10 would be better, especially if I want to attach the camera to the front of the train to film its journey.
Well, I certainly wouldn't recommend trying to strap your cellphone onto a moving train!
While I suspect the camera on a late-model cellphone, iPhone *or* Android, would offer you better options than a GoPro (which, after all, is designed more to be rugged and able to take abuse than for producing the best quality pictures. OTOH, if you *do* plan to strap the camera on the train, a GoPro (or knock-off) is the way to go. Several years ago, I fastened my daughter's old GoPro on a gondola car directly behind the engine and tender (better IMHO than in front of the engine) to shoot a video of my layout as it was then, which I then ran through a slow-motion conversion and edited it to show the best parts:
I use a mobius miniature camera for onboard videos.
I would not recommend a Go Pro for this application.
I experimented with a GoPro in shooting model railroads and found that it is not well suited for this kind of work. The GoPro is a FIXED-FOCUS camera, meaning that it has no adjustment for focusing. Anything from about 18” away from the lens will be in focus. However, in shooting model trains, the primary focus point often needs to be much closer than that. Anything closer than 18” to the camera was out of focus.
Here isn’t my go pro attached to the train a few Christmases ago
i like because it’s small however like what Rich stated it is fixed focus
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Go Pro on my Mogul on upper level of layout.
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@Michael Roth posted:Here isn’t my go pro attached to the train a few Christmases ago
i like because it’s small however like what Rich stated it is fixed focus
These two videos illustrate the problem well. In your first video, the locomotive details (steam dome, sand dome, and stack) are out of focus. In the second one, the passenger car just ahead of the camera is out of focus. It's not bad and these videos are certainly enjoyable, however they could be better if the focus point was adjustable.
thanks for info- which go pro did you use, and how did you mount it on you engine to get the forward view
Mine is GoPro X it’s about 12 years old and I used the magnet attachment and just stuck it to the boxcar side
Check out this thread about my mini-spy cam set-up ....
Once Around with Spycam | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogrforum.com)
I'm a big fan of my GoPro Hero 9 for shooting videos on and around my train layout. It's super convenient and I can controll and edit everything from my phone (also a laptop if I want too!). Is it as high as quality as I could shoot with my mid-range Canon set ups? Probably not, but I can attach this in areas of my layout or even on a flat car (I took an MTH flatcar and attached a GoPro sticky mount to it) and still have great videos come out.
Here are a few examples I took with it.
https://youtu.be/g2rf0BPvBDk?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/fc4aTwuyuAs?feature=shared
Like I said, I'm a big fan of the GoPro. I don't think you'd go wrong with it. And remember you don't always need super high end equipment to shoot enjoyable videos of your layout.
Ok, Gents, now that we know what camera isn’t the best to use, what camera should we use ?
@Rich Melvin posted:These two videos illustrate the problem well. In your first video, the locomotive details (steam dome, sand dome, and stack) are out of focus. In the second one, the passenger car just ahead of the camera is out of focus. It's not bad and these videos are certainly enjoyable, however they could be better if the focus point was adjustable.
How would you be adjusting the focus on the moving train?
A high definition video camera will take better quality videos. Automatic focus will also make more in focus videos.
Charlie
@gunrunnerjohn posted:How would you be adjusting the focus on the moving train?
You don’t need to make any adjustments once the train is underway. You adjust the focus where you want it set before the train starts to move.
You adjust it so the “front half” of the image is in focus. Better to have the foreground and middle distance things in focus than to have the foreground out of focus, with the middle and far distances focused. But this is exactly what happens with a GoPro. The foreground is out of focus while the mid and far away things are focused. It’s an ugly look.
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:A high definition video camera will take better quality videos. Automatic focus will also make more in focus videos.
I disagree with your comment about auto-focus.
The problem with an auto-focus camera is “focus hunting.” If the camera is not quite sure what to focus on, it will rack the focus to back and forth until it locks on to whatever it sees as a good focus candidate. This happens a LOT with a moving train.
I never use auto-anything on my video cameras. I want to control the scene, not let some generic camera software handle that task.
I'm interested in how people are getting around the PWM flicker (especially with MTH PS3 stuff). I played with framerate settings but can't seem to truly eliminate the flickering in the videos...
PWM Flicker? Whazzat?
You should shoot only at 30 or 60 frames per second.
You're not wrong - I usually do 60fps, but the headlights flicker - and to your point I know if you shoot in something that does not evenly go into 60(hz), the household lighting will flicker/flutter
https://youtu.be/9SqIvH-kOoI?s...MVV7qhwPjz&t=244
The link will open up to 4:04 to show a demo of my dilemma
@Steve Tyler posted:Well, I certainly wouldn't recommend trying to strap your cellphone onto a moving train!...
I actually did strap my Android phone on a flat car for a couple videos and they came out pretty well I think. Cheapness was the mother of invention in my case.
One is a YouTube Short - which by definition is vertical format - so the camera was facing forward for some cuts and backwards for other scenes. I had to remove my through truss bridge for clearance. Another video is with the camera lying horizontal facing out toward the center of the oval track.
https://youtube.com/shorts/9oh...?si=onW4zP9d1HiX65po
@John's Trains posted:I actually did strap my Android phone on a flat car for a couple videos and they came out pretty well I think. Cheapness was the mother of invention in my case.
One is a YouTube Short - which by definition is vertical format - so the camera was facing forward for some cuts and backwards for other scenes. I had to remove my through truss bridge for clearance. Another video is with the camera lying horizontal facing out toward the center of the oval track.
Well, to be fair, I never said you *couldn't* do it, just that I wouldn't *recommend* doing so! If you have to rebuild half your layout to accommodate the passage of your cellphone clinging athwart the consist, I think I'd go with the GoPro instead . . . just sayin' . . . 
@Steve Tyler posted:Well, to be fair, I never said you *couldn't* do it, just that I wouldn't *recommend* doing so! If you have to rebuild half your layout to accommodate the passage of your cellphone clinging athwart the consist, I think I'd go with the GoPro instead . . . just sayin' . . .
It was a fun experiment and quite easily accomplished. I don't know that I'd recommend it either - unless you're cheap like me and enjoy fun experiments. 😊
Here what I did with the mobius camera I mentioned before:
@Tall J posted:I'm a big fan of my GoPro Hero 9 for shooting videos on and around my train layout. It's super convenient and I can controll and edit everything from my phone (also a laptop if I want too!). Is it as high as quality as I could shoot with my mid-range Canon set ups? Probably not, but I can attach this in areas of my layout or even on a flat car (I took an MTH flatcar and attached a GoPro sticky mount to it) and still have great videos come out.
Here are a few examples I took with it.
https://youtu.be/g2rf0BPvBDk?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/fc4aTwuyuAs?feature=shared
Like I said, I'm a big fan of the GoPro. I don't think you'd go wrong with it. And remember you don't always need super high end equipment to shoot enjoyable videos of your layout.
Nice job. I think those look pretty good, @Tall J
John
Here is my GoPro camera car. While it does not shoot movie theater quality videos, it does produce some nice videos that are enjoyable to watch. I tried to post a video, but it was too large. There are moments where focus is a small issue and the camera wobbles on occasion, but they just remind me that I am human 
! I will try to post some video from an upcoming show that we are doing.
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@Rollsington posted:You're not wrong - I usually do 60fps, but the headlights flicker - and to your point I know if you shoot in something that does not evenly go into 60(hz), the household lighting will flicker/flutter
https://youtu.be/9SqIvH-kOoI?s...MVV7qhwPjz&t=244
The flickering of the headlight and marker lights in this video is not due to the frame rate. It is due to the electronic shutter in the camera. If you have manual control of it, set it to 1/30 second for 30 FPS (which is the combo I would recommend) or 1/60 if you shoot at 60 FPS, which is overkill for this kind of video. At 1/30 second and 30 fps, ALL of these annoying artifacts will go away. There will be no flicker on anything.
This is yet another reason not to use "automatic" cameras for anything where you want professional results.
@John's Trains posted:I like it, @Darrell What model of mobius did you get? It looks like they're pretty affordable.
John
I have a Mobius Maxi that I mounted on a spare truck:
They can also easily be mounted on flat cars, cabooses, or even locomotives.
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@Darrell posted:I have a Mobius Maxi that I mounted on a spare truck:
They can also easily be mounted on flat cars, cabooses, or even locomotives.
Thank you for the reply. I like your creative method of mounting it. Made a note of the model name.
John
I built my live camera system with a dummy engine:
(for the best visual result change video player settings to 1080p)
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I was just discussion this very question with my buddies this week. Great topic!
I shoot with an iPhone in HD60, as to many of my model RR friends. However, I've been asking the same question, is there a better camera out there that would be especially good at capturing up close shots of moving trains? And most important, how much is said camera?!
I do love my GoPro Hero 9 for cab rides around the layout. But as Rich mentioned, it's otherwise very limited for filming.
- Jason
I was hoping to read about different cameras folks use, but this has become a GoPro topic. The Mobius is also a fixed focal length camera from the factory but it can be adjusted if you carefully take it apart. We use it on our R/C aircraft.
Smart phones are too big. Hoping someone who has a good small camera that has an easy manual focus function posts about it, with product name.
@CAPPilot posted:I was hoping to read about different cameras folks use, but this has become a GoPro topic. The Mobius is also a fixed focal length camera from the factory but it can be adjusted if you carefully take it apart. We use it on our R/C aircraft.
Smart phones are too big. Hoping someone who has a good small camera that has an easy manual focus function posts about it, with product name.
Ron,
I too would like to find something along the lines of what you are looking for. My DSLR takes superior quality videos, and I can manually it, but it's just too big to get the angles I'm looking for. My cell phone takes good video, but I hate the focus aspect and again it is award to get the kind of angle I'd like. I see a lot of mini cameras advertised, but don't much about the quality.
To be fair, I haven't done the research either.
We use a Lionel camera caboose feeding a large screen tv in our club layout. A searchlight car is in front of the caboose to illuminate the inside of the tunnels. Works well.
I have used something a little different. I have a Sony DCR-SR47 handycam. It is quite small and I was able to attach it to one of my four truck depressed center flat cars. I could then put it in a train and video the moves. It worked well for me, and if I want to video again, I will use this cam. For what it is worth.....
I'm going to suggest that you look at CAMCORDERS as opposed to just small cameras. I'm talking about cameras that look like this:
I've used a camcorder similar to this one for years in shooting model trains. It is small enough to go on a flat car and will fit through O scale tunnels. I removed the strap and hand pad that it came with to get it down to just the camcorder and nothing else.I many camcorders like this, you can shut off things like auto-focus, auto-exposure, etc. which makes for a more stable video.
This type of camera can be easily used for other things, too. Family activities, sports, holidays, birthdays, etc.
As with everything you buy, you get what you pay for. On the Amazon page I linked above, there are some very cheap, under $100 camcorders there. I would not buy one of them. There is a reason they are cheap. By the same token, you don't have to spend $500 on one of these things, either.
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Glad to see someone else uses camcorders. They do a great job. Focus, sound, etc.
Rich I use Panasonic HC-V550 to film my layout as well. However, your comment that it's small enough to fit on a flatcar is true, but my camera will not start up until the screen is fully open which greatly limits its use in filming because it will run into things, many things! . Have you figured out how to film with the screen closed or is your camera a different model that does not operate like mine? Thanks
ED: I had the same problem initially with my Sony, but it is capable to spin around the screen and not get in the way of anything.
@ToledoEd posted:Rich I use Panasonic HC-V550 to film my layout as well. However, your comment that it's small enough to fit on a flatcar is true, but my camera will not start up until the screen is fully open which greatly limits its use in filming because it will run into things, many things!
That particular Panasonic model is somewhat unusual in that it does not provide a rear viewfinder.
I have used a Panasonic HDC-TM700 for years. You can see the battle scars on it. It is no longer produced, but there are current models that are similar.
This camera has the side door with the screen as yours has, but it also has a rear-viewfinder.
I can operate this camera with the side screen door closed.
However, your HC-V550 does not have a rear view finder which is why you must have the door open when you use it.
This brings up an excellent point. When shopping for a camcorder, it MUST have a rear viewfinder like mine in order to operate it with the side screen door closed.
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I own one of the world's best video cameras. I only use it for serious applications because setting up the lights is 90% of the work. For 95% of my train videos I use my iPhone in a holder. It's free, I already own it and it shoots 4K. Video cameras are a luxury that only makes sense if you are a serious videographer. Actually, the lighting is more important than your camera. If you buy a good video camera, $500+, and you have bad illumination, your videos will still suck.
