WHO ELSE DOESN'T LIKE DIESEL DUMMIES

Dummies could come out handy if one runs trains with DP.

I love my diesel dummy engines and i never mu two powered engines together because they always fight each other i don't care what anybody says and if you can't pull ten cars then there is something wrong with your engine or cars to heavy or not roll very well. 

I would add that your grades may be too steep and your curves too sharp or both if one diesel engine with two can motors can't pull more than 10 cars.

 A diesel with older Pullmore motors is another story.  I have a couple of these and they slip with about 10 cars on a flat straight.  

Oh-you mean diesel loco models that are not powered. Here I thought you were referring to many members of my club who only run diesel models: no steam atall.....

I have never been a fan of dummies... For this reason I especially like the direction 3rd rail is going with the PA's making each unit powered individually with its own sound and smoke! I have an all powered/all smoke/all sound Santa Fe F-7 ABA consist from 3rd rail and it is a HUGE difference from those that are not all powered/all smoke/all sound! It sounds like a real train speeding by with each unit roaring loud!

As for pulling power... what good is an engine that can't pull anything? If each unit is powered than they can serve mutiple uses and you are not limited to run them all together in a single consist. Ya, it may cost a little more upfront but it's well worth it.

I'm sure someone will chime in and claim that they CAN pull 10 cars and a dummy engine or two with a single powered unit... I can pull as many cars as I want with my all powered consist and never have had to limit the size of my trains just to save a few bucks by purchasing a dummy unit. 

I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.

I like dummies except for the weight and price. Mostly the price.

It is more than just no dummies on my transition era layout.  Like BigJohn, I demand sound and want smoke in every engine.  That eliminates both Lionel and MTH powered 'B' units, and the powered trailing 'A' unit of MTH ABA sets.  I did run speakers wires from a Lionel powered 'A' to a powered 'B' to have sound in all three engines of an ABA consist, but it is a hassle to set up.

Plus, that Lionel ABA set cost way too much.  I had to buy two separate AA sets plus the modified powered 'B' to complete the consist.  I also now have two dummy 'A' that just take up shelf space.  Lionel and MTH are not worth it to me for ABA consists.

My other AA, AB, and ABA sets are from either Atlas or Weaver, where I could buy each powered/sound/smoke unit separately to make up the consist I wanted.  I am glad to read 3rd Rail is also doing that. 

I don't see any advantage to placing an un-powered locomotive on the track. Visually, it really adds nothing to the consist and operationally, it's dead weight.

For the weight of a dummy you could add 3 or 4 more cars to your consist and they would look better and probably roll more freely.

Although I'm not much into diesels, I do have a set of MTH Southern Pacific "Black Widow" F3 in an A-B-B-A configuration. Both of the "B Units" are unpowered, and both "A Units" are powered, and I've never had any problems handling from 30 to 50 reefers. I certainly would NOT want those two "B Units" to be powered, thus the "dummy" concept worked well for me.

Dummies look good. But at the end of the day, they're just dummies.

The closest thing I have to dummies, are "display queens"

Hudson J1e posted:

I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.

Phil you say prototype don't use dummies units. Think again what is a slug unit nonpowered engine.  

When it comes to GP7/9 I'd rather have powered unit with their own sounds and smoke.

chessie1971 posted:

Hudson J1e posted:

I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.

Phil you say prototype don't use dummies units. Think again what is a slug unit nonpowered engine.  

The "slug" may not have a prime mover but, it sure as the devil is powered!!!!!

I guess I was spoiled by the first dummies from the early 2000s in the ABA sets. They came with lights, electro couplers and smoke. Since then all dummies are just boxcars with lights at three times the price. About the only thing they are good for is if you want multiple units with different cab numbers you can swap the shells for one of the powered units. Not really an economical solution.

Pete

I see more and more trains with 3 to 4 consist of engines go by my house but only two running save on diesel fuel and wear. Plus i see 80 car coal train go by with only one engine running and 1-1/2% grade to. 

chessie1971 posted:

Hudson J1e posted:

I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.

Phil you say prototype don't use dummies units. Think again what is a slug unit nonpowered engine.  

They have traction motors though, so they assist in pulling a train. The same can't be said for a dummy.

No its not just traction motors is all has to have mother engine to work.

chessie1971 posted:

No its not just traction motors is all has to have mother engine to work.

What???????

Pro dummy.

My layout is only 4x12, so I don't really need two $400.00 powered units to pull maybe twelve cars, but like to run AA, ABA, or ABBA combinations F units. Most of the lower level of my layout can't be seen, so even though small, it doesn't look bad. 

I really wanted the MTH Santa Fe freight FT's, but couldn't justify the price for two powered A's that I don't need. If a dummy A was offered, I wouldn't have hesitated.

Hotwater you work for EMD!! You should know the slug unit no good with out powered engine. 

Freight Train Jim posted:

Who else out there doesn't like running diesel dummies in there consists?

I don't like diesels of any type. So it's all steam for me.

chessie1971 posted:

Hotwater you work for EMD!! You should know the slug unit no good with out powerd engine. 

Well yes, but the "slug" is still very definitely powered when it is working at the assigned job it was designed for. Thus, it is NOT a "dummy", like those Amtrak "cab cars" that are used on the other end of the passenger trains between Portland, OR and Seattle, WA, for example.

Dummies are only good for providing body shells with different numbers.  I now have two sets of Lionel Sharks, B&O of course.  One pair is powered and the other is packed away in storage for the estate sale.  "Power" is supposed to be powered.  I weight my cars with lead and/or concrete in order to make 'em sweat and make 'em groove...  "Excessive grades"?  "Excessive curves"?  That's railroading!

There's no shame in adding power.  MRL uses one unit for every 10 to 15 loaded coal cars or covered hoppers to get over Mullan Pass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_pWXCtWZJQ

Thanks for all the great comments guys - this topic seems to have "stirred the pot" a little.

I don't know about other guys but if I put 10 cars behind one MTH diesel - good by traction tires on my flat layout.

What's with these newer dummies being hard to pull? I have a 2343C and T and you can practically breathe on them to get them moving! I threw on five 2500 series cars just to give the powered unit a challenge!

Freight Train Jim posted:

Thanks for all the great comments guys - this topic seems to have "stirred the pot" a little.

I don't know about other guys but if I put 10 cars behind one MTH diesel - good by traction tires on my flat layout.

You must have VERY sharp curves. 

I run all 4 and 5 engine MU's only one is unpowerd as its hosts a wireless fm transmitter for improved engine sounds..I need the powered units to pull between 33 and 42 cars. DCS and multi power synch up well together in command.

Either that or he's loading his hoppers with sand and tank cars with Karo for maximum effect.

I like dummies, but the first thing I do is rip the crew out.

Nothing wrong with non powered units to fill out the head end power.   

You guys must be pulling all diecast cars?  No problems pulling 30 cars +1 Dummy. Enough weight that the coupler opened on the freight car

2 Engines with Four can motors is more than enough for most layouts. These forums played a part in getting MTH,  Atlas  & Lionel to release dummies.

Well... They're dumb, probably why we don't like them!

Big fan of the MTH dummies when they were priced at $150. I always bought the matching dummy. I take out the crew figures and off they go. Have not ever had any traction issues on level runs or inclines with plastic bodied cars. The Lionel aluminum Superliners are my only cars that benefit from having two powered units going up the grade. 

I like the real life look they provide to a consist at a fraction the cost of all powered units. But, I would guess I'm in the minority due to their current state of non production. 

I'm no dummy. I own many non powered locomotives.  They enhance the looks of longer freight trains while keeping my wallet enhanced with $$$.  

rex desilets posted:

Oh-you mean diesel loco models that are not powered. Here I thought you were referring to many members of my club who only run diesel models: no steam atall.....

Hey. I resemble that remark.

But seriously, when I ran hi-rail engines, I usually ran a pair of powered units with a non-powered unit or two in between. Now I don't even look at the non-powered units.

In deference to Rex, I think I'll bring a steam locomotive down to the club next weekend.

I don't like dummies, there way too costly for what you get.  I rather add extra $$$ and get a second powered unit with lights, sound and smoke.

I have an Atlas O GP35 that is powered and a GP35 that is Un-Powered. I oil up the rolling parts. The Powered GP35 is strong enough to pull the Unpowered GP35 and 20 of the O Scale freight cars rather quickly.

Do you lube and or oil the MTH diesel locomotives as the instructions show. That is very important.

Andrew.

I like the dummies. If it's a true dummy I remove the rollers and they all roll freely. They give you another engine with a different cab number without repainting/decals. I run at least 2 powered units and throw in at least 1 dummy for a bigger consist.