Non power units rule.
They never break down.
They look as good as the power units
AND
They are half the coast of a powered unit and looked dang good MU'ed.
I really like Non-Powered units or Dummies. Use them a lot and I pick up units when I find them if they are the road name that I like. Never have trouble spinning a traction tire because I super glue them on. I have pulled many 30+ Car trains with one powered and one dummie on my home and club layout. Most of the time I do use 2 powered and a Non powered unit just because I like the look. I glue the tires on my stem engines aslo.
I love them, especially when I can find them for cheap $$ on the secondary market! 
Add some details and weathering and you've just improved the look and realistic appearance of your m.u. consists.
Yes, dummies need love too.
I like the look of F-3s and FTs with a dummy b and a unit but it does add to the cost. Other than that they are just expensive, heavy box cars. I don't run scale equipement so being prototypical does not matter.
Hudson J1e posted:I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.
Pretty much feel the same way. Why I never buy those pretty Lionel 2 motored E or F units towing a heavy empty shelled dummy. Talk about a waste..
Joe
Hudson J1e posted:I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.
Ahem.....
Rusty
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chessie1971 posted:I see more and more trains with 3 to 4 consist of engines go by my house but only two running save on diesel fuel and wear. Plus i see 80 car coal train go by with only one engine running and 1-1/2% grade to.
Likewise... Yesterday on the way home from work/dinner my wife and I found ourselves pacing an eastbound CN freight through our town. It had NINE (9!!!) units at the head end!! But, since the stretch we were pacing is an up-grade, you could tell from the exhaust that only 4 of the units were running. The others must have been dead-heading back to a power pool.
I love the non-powered diesel engines I have. Even to have them simply sitting on the layout creating the image of power-in-waiting, it's worth it. Besides, for the prices I pay for them on the secondary market there certainly are no regrets!
Not to steal the thread, but I'd love to stuff a roundhouse and engine ready-track with a few non-powered steamers if I could get them at a secondary market price in the same realm as the diesels!! Sure, you could say that all the defective and mute powered steamers you have can fit that bill. But generally I will have paid a price for the power and sounds that took a hike...for which I'll not be very happy.
Just a thought...
KD
Rusty Traque posted:Hudson J1e posted:I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.
Ahem.....
Rusty
It's a CABBAGE!! Lots of them around the Amtrak routes!
I almost said no dummies for me either, but that's not quite true. I do have dummies on some of my passenger trains, but they aren't involved in switching operations, so they don't matter. Freight trains won't have any.
We all know the problem with multiple AC-powered engines in conventional mode. But even in command mode, even if you have speed matching ala DCS, if you have more than one engine with traction tires, and one hits a big deadspot, you might throw a tire.
I do not know if Legacy engines are matched in speed, and/or, do you need the CAB-2 to make it work.
I think dummy locos are pointless, use what you need to pull the train just like in the real world.
My Williams and Lionel dummies are free rolling enough they don't impact loco performance.
The MTH dummies I have owned might as well have had "flat" wheels. I used to call them lead sleds because it seemed they just didn't want to be pulled. 
Fred
When NS came out with the heritage painted locomotives back in 2012 I wanted get at least all 10 of ES44AC the O gauge versions offered at the time. To get just powered versions would have been too expensive for me so I went half powered and half unpowered.
I chose my 5 favorites for my powered units and went with MTH since I had DCS and the unpowered units had the correct road numbers. I ended up with 12 of the 20 with 6 of them unpowered.
The two things that I don't like about unpowered locomotives:
1.They are heavy.
2. They don't have proto couplers.
Larry
dkdkrd posted:Rusty Traque posted:Hudson J1e posted:I don't like dummies either. The prototype doesn't use dummies so I won't.
Ahem.....
Rusty
It's a CABBAGE!! Lots of them around the Amtrak routes!
It also happens to be a de-engined F40...
Rusty
illinoiscentral posted:
I do not know if Legacy engines are matched in speed, and/or, do you need the CAB-2 to make it work.
Using a cab2 in command mode, the diesels I own are matched very well across different models and years. Not sure about steam...
Joe
I like them, I have 3, a F-3 as part of a Williams A-A consist and two GP-9's, one lionel from the 70's is lighter than many freight cars and one Williams. Those look great when I replicate the old Cranford to Bayonne scoot that had a gp-9 or gp-7 at either end. Given the relative small size of my layout they pose no problem.
Bought an Atlas GP9 dummy when they first came out, quickly began wondering WHY I bought it (ans=$$$).
Not long after, I spotted a RailKing F3 with PS2 on Ebay for $105 shipped and bought it.
One day I was looking at them and realized I could take the guts and motors out of the F3 and put them in the GP9 (RK F3 is undersize anyway, something else I don't care for). I had to buy the transfer gearing for the Atlas trucks, but I still ended up with a powered GP9 for less than what the asking price for the regular powered unit was at the time. Has run fine ever since and was the one and only dummy I purchased.
I can see the points regarding the dead weight of the dummies, but I have any number of them. My original 2353 Santa Fe F3s are a powered/dummy set, as are any number of other Lionel Postwar, MPC and LTI sets that I own. I like the look, I don't run long trains anyway, and I run conventional much of the time.
OK, SP at one time had "Select a Power" units. That is, if you you are making track speed, you could "tell" a MU unit to go "off line". ( Did it go into "neutral", and the powe setting go to Run 1?).
In a way, one could call this "Select a Dummy"?
I very much like having dummy engine engines offered. I like the look of having two engines running back-to-back rather than a single engine, and hate having to spend a huge amount of money to buy two powered units just to get that look. I've passed up buying some engines because dummies weren't offered, and it was too expensive to have to buy two powered units.
Those who have modest-sized layouts shouldn't forced to buy multiple powered engines just to accommodate people with huge basement layouts running 30-car consists, or whatever. I don't have a mega-layout and don't need two powered units - a single powered unit is plenty to pull a dummy and a good sized consist for me. It also makes things simpler not having to program, operate and maintain/repair two powered units for one train when a single engine does fine.
Offering dummies offers additional flexibility and options for customers. And those who want to run three engines with two powered are given an option as well.
For those who don't like dummies, what do you care if they're made or not? Just don't buy them!
My main reason for not liking a dummy engine is the cost! If the dummy or unpowered unit were around $50.00 or less for a new one that would be great. You don't have any motors or circuit boards in most dummies, so why the high price?
I have upgraded a Williams set of F-7 ABA diesels engines, only one was powered when I bought them, now the two A units are both powered.
Lee Fritz
I grew up with Lionel's AA, ABA units they had the power to drag or push the dummies along. And we didn't pull 20 car trains with them. With today's longer trains the norm, I would feel more comfortable with 2 powered units.
I Don't like Dummies..!!! Period…!!!!
Who in there right or wrong mind would buy a locomotive with no engine…!!!!
toyspecialist posted:Who in there right or wrong mind would buy a locomotive with no engine…!!!!
Amtrak. They use them as cab cars (Cabbages) at the other end of their passenger trains out in Washington State.
some folks here and on the auction sites seem to like them.....example, a mth premier non-power wide cab dash-8 norfolk southern recently bid out at around $320.....
Personally, I think there is a definite place for "dummy units" for "F Units", "E Units", etc. where the operator desires a prototypically large consist, such as A-B-B-A, or A-B-B-B. There would be absolutely no need to have any more than two "covered wagon" units powered, three at the most.
Just because I run electric, and don't have any diesels, I wouldn't call the diesel fans dummies.
Oh, maybe this thread is about dummy diesels and not diesel dummies, lol, ok I'm a goofball
Jim Berger posted:some folks here and on the auction sites seem to like them.....example, a mth premier non-power wide cab dash-8 norfolk southern recently bid out at around $320.....
How about an MTH KCS ES44AC non powered that sold for almost four hundred on ebay a few months ago.
John, I ran six motor K-line F-7 Milwaukee sets but pulled an A or B and mostly just run two units. Just don't need that much power. I like and run dummy units but wish all of them came with lights. Don
Hot Water posted:Personally, I think there is a definite place for "dummy units" for "F Units", "E Units", etc. where the operator desires a prototypically large consist, such as A-B-B-A, or A-B-B-B. There would be absolutely no need to have any more than two "covered wagon" units powered, three at the most.
I can agree to that as long as the non-powered unit has SOUND. However, I have not seen any sound-only units except for a few of those Super-Bass units from a while back. Wish they would bring those back.
Dummies are okay as long as they don't sound like a dummy
With MPC with their plastic gears and they really don't run real good I try to buy two powered ones and no dummy's. Two open frame motors run better and smoother.
I only have two diesel sets and each has a dummy, the way they came. I don't need two powered ones, not a big issue. I have tolerated dummies all my life, still do.
I, too, prefer all powered units. However, I do own a couple of non-powered diesels. I run TMCC exclusively. MTH has produced a couple of locomotives in my favorite road name. As I can't run PS-2/3 with my TMCC controls, I purchased the dummy units to run behind my TMCC power. If I could power the dummies economically, I would.
Tom
I really don't need two powered diesels on my layout but have looked at a few powered frames at train shows. They seem expensive for something really not needed. I also have an F3 B unit that is non-powered which I usually don't use. I have thought about powering it, too but not yet. Not every diesel in a consist isn't necessarily on -line so a non-powered unit doesn't have to be wrong.
Come to think of it, I have dummy also, I have a dummy BB1 electric.
Well, my wife loves, um tolerates her big dummy...
J Daddy posted:In the words of my favorite comedian... "You Big Dummy"!
What a lost opportunity for manufactures to add sound for a more realistic A-B-B-A consist... I like the original Century Club releases with dual powered units WITH sound.
Working on something like that now with a set of MTH FT's. Plan to put speakers in the B Units. B units have all that nice empty space for a good speaker system.
CAPPilot posted:I can agree to that as long as the non-powered unit has SOUND. However, I have not seen any sound-only units except for a few of those Super-Bass units from a while back. Wish they would bring those back.
Yes ..... Super Bass dummies. Full lighting, electrocouplers, smoke, and that great sound.
It helped bring me back to O-scale trains. When I saw/heard that first release of Lionel CSX AC6000's running, including the SuperBass dummy. I bought all three engines, and a Legacy system, that day.
IIRC .... the dummy was like $250 cheaper than the powered units.
I would like to see offered non motored with sound. The AA sets offer electrocouplers on the non-powered unit, so what would be involved? I suppose you would have to put in a tmcc or legacy board to match the sound with the MUd unit. Maybe that would just about get it up to the powered cost.
